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Up Topic Welding Industry / General Welding Discussion / Running a 3-phase welder on single phase
- - By J.T. Date 04-15-2006 03:17
Does anyone know for certain whether or not I can operate a Lincoln (3-phase) Idealarc R3S-400 on single phase circuit by using a rotary phase converter? I bought one recently at an auction and having the power company run 3-phase to my shop is cost prohibitive. Thanks in advance.
Parent - - By jwright650 (*****) Date 04-15-2006 10:57
My father-in-law runs his entire machine shop off one of those phase converters.
John Wright
Parent - - By J.T. Date 04-15-2006 13:24
Dear Mr. Wright,

Thanks for responding to my post. Would you ask your father-in-law if he would allow me to contact him either by e-mail or telephone and chat briefly about how he solved this problem? My e-mail is: jeffrey.snell@mchsi.com
Parent - - By webbcity (***) Date 04-15-2006 15:47
j.t. if you want i can send a page that has some information . i read where they make these units up to 200 hp. but it seems to me that there is some difficulties when you use them to power transformers ? might have to over rate to get enough power . let me know . willie
Parent - - By J.T. Date 04-15-2006 15:59
Hey Willie,

Any and all information will be greatly appreciated. Thank you so much!
J.T.
Parent - - By webbcity (***) Date 04-15-2006 19:32
you got mail . hope you can find something from this , there are suppliers listed , might be near you , they might have a better idea what to do . good luck and let us know what you find out . willie
Parent - - By J.T. Date 04-16-2006 00:31
Hey Willie,

This link is a gold mine---I'm luvin' it!

Thanks!

Jeff

P.S. I hitch-hiked up to Alaska from North Carolina back in the early eighties. I will never forget the overwhelming beauty nor the vastness of it all.
Parent - By webbcity (***) Date 04-16-2006 15:53
jeff , glad you liked the link . i have more if i can find them . good luck with your drill press . i have remains of 2 of them . dont use much since they invented mag. drills but still use drill bits that came with them . PS i came to alaska 1963 age 17 had about $450 cash and i'm not leaving till i get every penny of it back . keep us posted on what you do with your welder . willie
Parent - - By MAC702 (*) Date 04-15-2006 16:23
Have you contacted Lincoln directly? I know some who have contacted Miller with a similar question and been told it was NOT recommended. I also know some who DO it successfully with a Millermatic 300.
Parent - - By J.T. Date 04-15-2006 17:19
Hey Mr. Mac,

No I have not called Lincoln yet even though it seems the logical first step to take but I do intend to call them this coming week. Thanks!

P.S. What kind of work took you to Columbia if I may ask?

Jeff
Parent - - By MAC702 (*) Date 04-16-2006 04:36
Since it's your thread, guess it's not a hijack! My wife and I volunteered 6 months to travel there and assist in expanding the printery of Jehovah's Witnesses there. It was a wonderful time, and we plan on going back to South America again next year.
Parent - By J.T. Date 04-16-2006 16:44
Good for you, your wife, and the people you're helping. The religious experiences I've had have shown me that the only attitude God strikes toward us is that of love. And when God gives you a hug so to speak it's the same hug regardless of who you are---for spiritual experiences are truly universal in nature. As for serving God Mr. Mac you may be heartened by this story. The delivery route I drive each day takes me down the same roads. Week after week I passed by this site that was being prepared to have a concrete slab poured on it. The site lay dormant for weeks as rain, time, and gravity packed the fill. A crew showed up (maybe 8-10 people) who picked perfect weather and poured the pad in short order. What happened next though is what impressed me most. Overnight,(it reminded me of my Hotshot days as a fire fighter and how "tent cities" appear and people mobilize so quickly when rallied to a cause), this site was swarming with 80-100 people who showed up in their travel trailers: carpenters, plumbers, electricians, brick masons, roofers, HVAC, you name it, they came, and in about five or six days they completed a new house of worship. Such a well co-ordinated effort by people I seldom see in the world today, and yes, they were Jehovah's Witness, witnessing beautifully to our world. Take care.

Jeff
Parent - - By aevald (*****) Date 04-15-2006 21:10
Hello Jt, if I understand your post correctly you purchased a R3S-400 machine at auction and now you are looking to power it up in your shop off of a phase converter. I would imagine that you already know that there are essentially two types of phase converters that are available for the purpose of providing 3 phase power, static and rotary, in your case I believe that you definitely would want to use the rotary over the static type, I feel the only real problem that you may run into regarding this scenario is the size of the phase converter that will be needed to make this happen. The cost of commercially available rotary phase converters that are capable of providing the type of amp load outputs required for welders is considerable. In many shops that use these they are powering lathes, milling machines, drill presses, saws, and various types of motorized applications, most of these will possibly have a high amp load start-up load but once the machine is running this will then drop down to something in maybe the 5 to 30 amp range at most, welders on the other hand can be much different, particularly if you are using the machine to it's full potential. The machine that you purchased I would venture to say has the capability to require around 40 to 50 amps of 230 volt 3 phase power at rated machine output. In some cases the cost of the rotary phase converter would offset the cost of a single-phase machine that is capable of achieving the same end result as the one that you purchased at auction. Certainly check all of the options available to you, but don't be suprised if you run into the scenario that I have described. Good luck and Regards, aevald
Parent - - By J.T. Date 04-16-2006 00:06
Hi Mr. Evald,
You understand correctly and yes rotary converters are not cheap. Although I may elect to sell the welder for the reasons you mentioned and buy a single phase unit I'll still need one, for there is another item I purchased at the sell which also requires 3-phase that I will not part with. Some who read this may think I'm crazy but I bought a 21" swing camelback drill press made by Royersford in Pennsylvania. It's old, but what a workhorse. I know cause I have a friend who has been quietly and methodically using one in his shop for decades. It's over one hundred years old and still working beautifully. While I'm not opposed to progress I do think our democratic, post modern, capitalistic way of living causes us, at times, to chase our tails for the sake of a dollar at the expense of our physical and mental heath and for me it's therapeutic, almost zen-like, at my friends shop to sit on well worn wood, arm gently applying pressure to steel and brass polished by decades, listening to the quiet hum of 3-phase, as cutting oil and bit work in concert sending curl after long curl---with an ever so slight pause in pressure---cascading effortlessly to the floor. Anyway, thanks to all of you guys for your replies. The welding fraternity certainly contains within it a lot of good people.
Parent - By aevald (*****) Date 04-16-2006 06:42
Hello J.T., I certainly know where you're coming from concerning older and better machine tools, I used to have a drill press such as you have described in your post, I also have a punch press that was originally driven by a flat belt, it is approximately 1886 vintage and suprisingly they still have punches and dies available for it through Cleveland Tool Steel Co. certainly a different era and one I hope not too soon forgotten. Enjoy your passion, Regards, aevald
Parent - - By West O. Artist Date 04-16-2006 03:42
Hope you don't mind if I piggyback a question here of a similar nature. I got two nice, old pieces of 3-phase equipment for free: a squirrel-cage particle collector with a long flex arm, and a heavy duty pedestal grinder. Is my best option to a) buy a converter, b) try to swap these out for single phase ones on Craigslist (or some other site?), or c) do the old single phase motor jumpstart? If the answer is "c", can someone tell me about the pros and cons of doing it, and the details of how it's done. I only know that it is possible, but I've heard vague and varying reports.

Thanks,
James
Parent - - By supermechanic (**) Date 04-16-2006 12:53
Rotary converters are so simple to make that the people who charge the outrageous fees for a ready-built unit should be made to stand on their head in the pouring rain till their nostrils fill with rain water.
A 10 minuite search on google should point you in the right direction.
I built a converter from a used 40 hp motor and a basket full of surplus parts, total cost was under $100.
Parent - By J.T. Date 04-16-2006 16:55
Hey Supermechanic,

Simple for the experienced and I agree on the outrageous prices for store bought units but, even though I'd like to try my hand at it I simply don't have time for the learning curve right now. Thanks for the words of encouragement though. Take care.

Jeff
Parent - By J.T. Date 04-16-2006 16:49
Piggy backing is okay with me. We're all in this together.
Parent - By brande (***) Date 04-23-2006 04:27
Welders run decently on the simplst of phase converters.
They do require rotary, not static phase converters.
These can be fashioned from most any used three phase motor of sufficient capacity.


Good Luck

brad

Up Topic Welding Industry / General Welding Discussion / Running a 3-phase welder on single phase

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