Not logged inAmerican Welding Society Forum
Forum AWS Website Help Search Login
Up Topic Welding Industry / General Welding Discussion / Bidding advise on jig welding?
- - By Humvee67 (*) Date 04-15-2006 04:48
Next week I'm meeting a man to close a deal on welding sections of hospital chairs. His pre formed parts-Mild steel tubing- his jigs-perfect. he has a tool and die shop and powdercoating plant. All I have to do is load the jig and weld several short welds-1 inch long at the most. He's telling me I should be able to weld 10 units per hour and I think he wants to pay $4 per unit. This may be long term. It seems doable,,I seen the parts and jigs. His shop is just across the hyway from mine. I have 2100 sq ft for production and product. This will be my first contract and if it goes right, could be all I need as a sole proprieter, and still take walk-in work.
Is $40 hr a good rate for a steady deal like this? I can do the work no problem.
The welds are like 3/16"-to-1/4" mig.I have a new MuscleMig 140 that would be perfct for it and about 60 pounds of 0.35 wire to start with.
Any thoughts or warnings? It sounds great to me.
Parent - - By webbcity (***) Date 04-15-2006 10:07
sounds interesting , how many are you required to do ? how is the material recieved ? how is finished product delivered ? any testing ? when is pay day ? who used to do this and why are they not doing it now ? i would try it see how it goes . good luck . willie
Parent - By Humvee67 (*) Date 04-15-2006 17:53
Ya, I'm pretty excited about it.I'll ask him to do the trucking since he is equipted and so close. My contract will say either on delivery or in 1/3s. 1/3 up front to cover my expences and 1/3 halfway and the last 1/3 on delivery. Some one in the powdercoating plant is doing it as well as a large fab company who probly deals with much bigger projects. Plus they are out of town. I may be cheaper for him and more easily accessable. I think it will be long term and I dont think I can lose. He's well established here, having owned several plants in town.
I'm just not experienced in sales and estemating, nor the gift to gab.
We know some mutual people and I mostly let him do all the talking. His shop was closed early for Good Friday and we stayed and talked for like 2 hours.
Parent - - By yorkiepap (***) Date 04-16-2006 03:12
Hey Humvee67,
I agree it sounds like nice work to pick up. Take Willie's advice and do some checking regarding reliability, any past problems, and the person's integrity. The rate sounds quite fair and it may be appropriate to "get your foot in the door", so to speak. These companies who find it much more economical to "farm out" their work have many contacts who also may need multiple items produced. It may take a few hours or so to familiarize yourself on your best method to achieve 10/hr, but you will and probably exceed it after you're up and running. Since he is furnishing the jig and material, all you really have to do is set up a layout to move the product from start to finish in a manner that will be efficient for you and may be more productive than the 10 per hr. he is expecting. If you can do more than 10/hr, keep it to yourself and charge him the rate he offered. Now, there's how you can up the level of your profit and everyone is happy.

Where I work, I do a very significant amount of repetitive welding for the many items we use and sell. I have designed and constructed over 60 jigs & fixtures to produce product at a profitable ratio and make my job so much easier. Do yourself a favor and really look at the jig he is furnishing and how it is designed & built. You will find that jigging is the absolute best way to maintain repetitive consistency and accuracy. You will get ideas and learn how to acquire more jobs because you can produce a quantity at a reasonable price and make a nice profit. This will really enhance your business and of course, put out quality work.

If you ever need help designing a jig, let me know. I can give you some insight as to how to charge a customer to design & construct a jig for their product. If they have to go to an engineer and then to a tool & die maker to get a jig or fixture made, it is quite costly. You will find that you can make it easier and the way you feel would work best for you.

Good luck..Denny
Parent - - By Humvee67 (*) Date 04-16-2006 12:57
Thank you, Denny and Willy for the fast replies!
He told me his welder built 80pc in an 8 hour day with breaks and lunch.
I know that starting out, I'll sacrifice more time to get things right and please the customer.
Tomorow is the day I see him about the first type of three he wants welded. He mentioned doing a run of 200 pc at first. Thats 2.5-8 hr days, I'd like to get a week's worth if I can.
Wire and gas: When I welded production before as a job, the wire came in a giant spool on a pallet fed thru a boom welder. I have a feeling my 10 pounders will go quickly doing this. Is my shop rate supposed to cover the wire and gas on production welding or should I mention this to him? I know I will profit well in any case, but the more I read about business operating, the more I hear about being a miser on such things.

His jigs are made at HIS tool and die shop. The work area is angled ergonomically for ease of access and uses built-in levered clamps.
I am very interested in jig design. And any tips would be greatly appreciated. I am AutoCAD certified and jigs could be another sevice to offer customers. I was a Millwright for the conveyor and material handling industry for a decade, so production of racks, hangers, and misc parts off my own jigs is not new to me. I know the best jig can make a big difference in production rate. And as I said, his are top notch.
Too bad we can't post pictures here. I'm new to this forum. The other forum I go to has picture posting and really helps in making a point.
Anyway,, I'm just so fired up about this. I have a business counselor and my wife is a tax pro @ H&R Block. Things seem to falling into place so I'm off to Easter Sunday Church and count my blessins. Happy Easter and Thanks again for all the advise.
Brian
Parent - - By thirdeye (***) Date 04-16-2006 14:58
Hi Brian,

Since this forum does not have direct photo uploading, you can sign up for any of the photo services (most are free) then you can post the url for the photos you want shown. Photobucket.com is the one I use, but there are many. Google photo hosting sites.

Here is an example, just click on it.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v377/thirdeye2/Camping/28e863e1.jpg

Good luck on the business venture.

~thirdeye~
Parent - By Humvee67 (*) Date 04-16-2006 19:35
Ah, cool. Photobucket is the one we use to, only the pictures show up in the postings. I'll use it here when I need to to. Thanks for the info.
Here's a pic of the shop.
[IMG]http://i24.photobucket.com/albums/c33/EvansvilleBrian/101_0247.jpg[/IMG]
Parent - - By yorkiepap (***) Date 04-16-2006 23:45
Hey Brian,
Glad we could help, as others will do here. Nice looking building...looks like you have some room to really set up nicely.

Yes, I would mention the wire and gas, even if he would contribute 50% of the cost, it would help. Don't worry about the 10 pounders, they will go quite a way...you may be surprised as you're just running 1" or so beads. Keep track of how many units you can do per 10lb. roll and how much gas you consume. Maybe keep your CFH down in the 8-12CFH and see if your beads look good. Hey, being a miser helps keep you afloat.

That photo thirdeye sent is gorgeous....wonder if he sits under that tree with a fishin' rod and cold 6 pack.... :>)))

Don't hesitate to ask....anything....there's a great bunch of minds here.....Denny
Parent - - By Humvee67 (*) Date 04-17-2006 02:29
Thanks Denny,
That is a nice campsite, Thirdeye. We go to a campground.
I've never welded with the gas that low. I'll definately get some practice welds on the materiel. The place has no breeze in it for sure. It could use it, it's pretty warm here already.
I meet him tomorow...Wish me luck!
Brian
Parent - - By Humvee67 (*) Date 04-18-2006 00:40
Ok, Here's the 1st part::
[IMG]http://i24.photobucket.com/albums/c33/EvansvilleBrian/Rust1.jpg[/IMG]
I went to his shop to see how many of these I could weld in one hour.
I actually spent 1 hour and 20 minutes because I ran out of c25 about half way thru. So at 30 minutes I had 14 done. His jig was good. He uses a Miller 120 with a pretty small torch/nozzel. At first, I jumped right in for speed, but I didnt like my welds, so I slowed down to a steady even rythum and the rest all looked good.
That's a pic of a finished and p/coated piece he told me to hang onto. I talked to him by phone after that, and he said to think it over tonight and get wth him tomorow.
I really feel like he wants my business, I just hope we can get it rolling soon.
I appreciate all your tips and advise and I'll keep reading this forum and offer help when I can as well.
Brian
Parent - - By yorkiepap (***) Date 04-18-2006 16:29
Hey Brian,
Looks good. Yes, don't worry about speed for now....good welds are primary. You'll pick up the pace without a problem and you'll find that 10/hr will be easy. If you have a breeze, then you will have to up the CFH to get nice, consistent beads.

Glad to hear his jig is of good design and works well. That's the secret to production.

Since he is giving you some thinking time, it would suggest he will be open to furnishing you some wire & gas.....just ask...all he can do is say no.

Go get 'em !!!....Denny
Parent - By Humvee67 (*) Date 04-25-2006 01:04
Hey, guys, I got the job!!!! Those parts in the picture take about 2 minutes to jig up and weld. Those aren't $4 pc. they are more like $1.50.
I start them tomorow. Thanks for all you're help. ;)
Up Topic Welding Industry / General Welding Discussion / Bidding advise on jig welding?

Powered by mwForum 2.29.2 © 1999-2013 Markus Wichitill