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- - By aevald (*****) Date 04-26-2006 14:47
Hello everyone, I've got one to throw out there for all of you to consider. Over the years of my involvement in the welding field and some of it's varied aspects, I've run into little tricks, rules of thumb, and other types of information that are not readily available to many of those who are starting out in the trades. What would all of you say to possible having this forum come up with another section that is dedicated to bringing some of this information to light? I know that I could certainly learn from it and I would venture to say that there are a lot of folks out there who could too. Would appreciate some responses and suggestions. Regards, aevald
Parent - By SWP (**) Date 04-26-2006 22:59
Good idea.
Parent - By thirdeye (***) Date 04-26-2006 23:55
aevald,

That would benefit many folks. I think we are all guilty of overlooking the basics once in a while and lets face it, sometimes tips and tricks are passed along by demonstration or just word of mouth and not formally recorded.

I have always liked watching the master craftsmen doing things like welding using a mirror, flame straightening or working out a layout problem with a string line and plumb bob. They're kind of a dying breed.

~thirdeye~
Parent - - By yorkiepap (***) Date 04-27-2006 01:10
Aevald,
I find your offer more than interesting. Even those of us with decades of experience in the multi-faceted welding arena, will learn something new, time saving, easier, better, more productive, and helpful. I find many interesting problems and solutions here already, and the learning curve has been fruitful for me in several applications I have encountered. I do believe many of us have our own "secrets" and ways to make a job easier. I also believe many of us with those "secrets" are really looking for a place to "let them out", so to speak.

I say go for it!! Would you consider accepting photos of projects welders fabricated to help them with their welding?

With the recent sabotage of this forum by some mindless fool, I hope this doesn't deter you and others from your contributions to our overall education and enlightenment......Thank you....Denny
Parent - - By aevald (*****) Date 04-27-2006 06:34
Hello again everyone, I tend to think that any sort of method of conveyance would be appropriate, pictures, prints, drawings, sketches, tool descriptions, stories, examples, I believe all are relevant. In my varied experience in just a very small part of the fabrication and welding world I have learned much from co-workers, friends, this forum and any number of other sources. In my current working situation I have a variety of students with very different learning styles and needs, the trick is to come up with something that will work to spark the abilities that are present in these individuals. There is an old saying that states the end justifies the means, my interpretation of this statement leads me to believe that it isn't so important as to how you get somewhere as long as the end result is what you desire to have. For some individuals the particular method that is employed to achieve results might not be the one that they understand, instead having alternatives may give them the method that they can best remember and use. The types of things that I would like to see contributed here would be examples of some of these alternative means and also some of the do's and don'ts as they relate to the trade. Safety is another area that too many of us tend to put on the back burner, I explain to students all the time that statistically most individuals that are hurt in the workplace are either the greenhorns because they don't know any better or the old timers because everything has become so automatic that they sometimes forget or overlook the little things. I would like to throw out a couple of examples of the types of things that might be included for consideration: If you plan on welding 6061 T6 alum. and after the welding you are going to have the parts anodized, you would not want to weld these parts with 4043 filler rod, instead you would want to use 5356 thus avoiding a blackening of the welded areas upon anodizing. Another example: you have some circular burn outs that require location of the centers for additional layouts such as bolt circles, you can draw two parallel lines across the circles and find the centers of each of the lines relative to the circle edges, once you have done this you can draw a line through these two locations and find the center of that line, that will be the center of the circle. I believe there are a whole host of little things that many individuals use regularly that not everyone else is aware of and if they did know about them they would be able to save themselves some time and do a better and more productive job. Thanks for letting me ramble. Regards, aevald
Parent - - By Ugotit Date 04-27-2006 11:42
Hi
This my first post here. I'm a union carpenter over 35 years, started welding 1975. on and off and finally bought a mig welder 220 volt 180 amp two weeks ago. Belong to many forums
I would like to say that all ideas that anyone can post is worth it's weigh in gold. Pictures in perticular. Some of us read and learn some hands on some with pictures, and some all of the above . Myself I'm hands on by watching others asking questions and seeing. Seeing is believing. I read an research also dont get me wrong.
So the point is posting pictures is a good thing.
For instance your talking about finding the center of the circle, with parallel line. Ok lets see the picture and we can be off to a start here. I build guitars also and see pictures of the process and tools, and jigs, this cant be beat.
One last point I'm also a computer tech graduated 1995 two year cpourse. My buddy a book worm would go into the instructors office for a rating. Questions are ask he had all the answers right out of the book. Me why should I remember all the answers when logic, hands, being able to source the info did the trick.
Point here is he came out from a rating session one day then picks up a printer and asks me what kind of printer and model is this. I smirk to myself and tolh him, turn it upside down and read the tag on it. My last point: // visual posting eliminats lots of gum action:
Hope to see pictures here.
Parent - - By aevald (*****) Date 04-27-2006 17:01
Hello Ugotit, once I get a little better educated on how to post photos and such on the forum here I do plan to include drawings, photos, etc. So stay posted and hopefully others will do the same. Regards, aevald
Parent - - By jwright650 (*****) Date 04-27-2006 17:24
http://www.Photobucket.com

You can upload photos to this free hosting site. There are others that are free also, this is just what I use.


ie. the instructions for using a fillet weld gage....

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v345/jwright650/welding%20pictures/filletweldgageinstructions.jpg

John Wright
Parent - - By aevald (*****) Date 04-27-2006 17:32
Hello John, and thank you, I did subscribe to the photobucket site and plan on doing some preliminary testing to see how this all might work. Hopefully the old dog can learn some new tricks and get this thing rolling. Regards, aevald
Parent - - By jwright650 (*****) Date 04-27-2006 17:43
If you find that youneed some help.....don't mind hollering.
John Wright
Parent - - By aevald (*****) Date 04-27-2006 22:21
Here I go, hopefully the image that I put onto photobucket will be linked to this post. aevald
[IMG]http://i52.photobucket.com/albums/g25/aevald/Fabrication.jpg[/IMG]
Parent - By Ugotit Date 04-28-2006 12:28
Hi guess ugotit right on look at your img and see exactly what you whereup to Nice trick I love it.
So I quess we all got the ball rolling far out.
have a great day
Parent - - By Ugotit Date 04-27-2006 19:39
http://s55.photobucket.com/albums/g128/ugotit33/
This is a test I registered with photobucket .
upload a hoist I made to mount on the front of my tracktor.
If you look close you can see the hook, and the winch mounted on the plate on the tractor.
If you register with photbuck.com you can upload pis there and make an album. I upload my pic 350kb so it can upload fast.
This is a crude way of getting pics on this forum.
On other welding forums you upload rigth on the site.
Parent - - By jwright650 (*****) Date 04-28-2006 10:46
Your link didn't work exactly right.....what you need to copy and paste is the top string of text that is in the three boxes under each picture that is in your album in Photobucket. If you highlight the text in the top box and copy it, then paste it directly into your post here, it will be clickable for other people to see and they will have access to that pic only. Where as if you give a link to the whole album, people could quite possibly browse through everything you have uploaded to photobucket.

To all,
Other forums require that you use the "[img] url [/img]" to post pictures directly into the thread, but it won't work that way here in this forum, so just post the link that Photobucket generates in that top box like I stated earlier in this post.

John Wright
Parent - - By Ugotit Date 04-28-2006 12:21
http://i55.photobucket.com/albums/g128/ugotit33/ugotits%20tools/SPLITX11.jpg
http://i55.photobucket.com/albums/g128/ugotit33/ugotits%20tools/HOIST01a.jpg
Hi John
Let me know if this works.
Just check it myself looks good.
What a world from here to there and back to here and some :-)
So we just have to get aevald on to it.
Where in Virgina do you live I have a son in Blacksburg
Parent - - By jwright650 (*****) Date 04-28-2006 12:52
I'm in Rustburg, a few miles South of Lynchburg.
John Wright
Parent - By Ugotit Date 04-29-2006 10:41
Off the welding topic, but thats where he lives lynchburg.
I love Viginia nice country. I'm a US citizen living in Canada PEI.
Parent - - By SWP (**) Date 04-27-2006 13:50
Aevald,
reading your comment about using 4043 instead of 5356 to avoid blackening of an anodized 6061 weld has me puzzled, I am remembering this scenario exactly opposite, but I could be wrong, it was 25 years ago when Mr. Defeitas first taught this to me. I thought that the blackening was related to the high silicon content of 4043? I don't have the reference material on hand to confirm this, are you sure about this?
thank you, swp
Parent - - By aevald (*****) Date 04-27-2006 15:07
Hello SWP, it's not your old age or forgetfulness that is the problem here it's mine. I STAND CORRECTED REGARDING MY POST ON ALUMINUM FILLER TURNING BLACK WHEN ANODIZED. IT SHOULD READ THAT 5356 FILLER SHOULD BE USED WHEN WELDING 6061 T-6 IF YOU ARE GOING TO BE ANODIZING THE FINISHED PRODUCT. Thank you for catching that SWP. I will have to make sure of my statements more so before I go putting them out there. I checked in the Alcoa reference materials and located the section concerning this issue and you were definitely correct. I edited my first post regarding this subject so please don't be confused by SWP's post. Regards, aevald
Parent - By SWP (**) Date 04-27-2006 18:39
Thank you for checking into this, I'm finding I need to double check myself more and more these days.
Parent - - By jwright650 (*****) Date 04-27-2006 17:52
Here is a pic of some fluxcore welding - base plate to column shaft is full pen. (TC-U4b)

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v345/jwright650/welding%20pictures/Dsc00006.jpg


Here is a similar joint being backgouged with carbon arc.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v345/jwright650/welding%20pictures/Dsc00010.jpg

here a clearer pic of what the column looks like without all of the glare from welding messing with the camera.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v345/jwright650/welding%20pictures/Dsc00008.jpg

John Wright
Parent - - By aevald (*****) Date 04-27-2006 18:27
Hello John, would the lugs that I see attached to the bottoms of those base plates be shear lugs by chance? and by the way nice pictures. Appears as though you folks do some pretty fair sized iron. Interestingly enough there is a testing facility located in my area here that was doing some work related to the World Trade Center, as a part of that they received a rem. of some of the column material that had been used in their construction for some types of testing. This section of beam was a W14x730#, quite an impressive and massive chunk of iron. Regards, Allan
Parent - - By jwright650 (*****) Date 04-27-2006 20:17
Allen,
To answer your question, yes they are 6" thick(gives some refrence to the size of the materials) shear lugs on the bottom of the baseplates.
Many of the men in my shop fabricated steel on the Trade towers.
Here is an article from the newspaper one of these guys had in his wallet.......Hope it is clear enough to read......
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v345/jwright650/junk%20folder/WorldTradeCenter.jpg
John Wright
Parent - - By aevald (*****) Date 04-27-2006 21:34
Hello John, it is a small world isn't it. Unfortunately the image of the newspaper article that you included couldn't be read when I looked at it, but thank you for taking the time. I have scanned a few things to put on this thread, however, they aren't in the correct format to post through photobucket, I have some technical folks at my disposal and hopefully they'll get it figured out for me. Thanks again, Allan ONCE I FIGURED OUT HOW TO ENLARGE IT IT WAS READABLE, THANKS, JOHN
Parent - - By aevald (*****) Date 04-28-2006 01:45
Hello all, I'm going to give one more shot at posting an item from photobucket. This particular item is a way to come up with the type of graph that is typically required to do the layout for an elbow or saddle when fitting pipe. Regards, aevald

[IMG]http://i52.photobucket.com/albums/g25/aevald/Fabrication2.jpg[/IMG]
Parent - By jwright650 (*****) Date 04-28-2006 02:48
Hey, you're getting the hang of this :)
John Wright
Parent - - By West O. Artist Date 04-28-2006 05:13
Absolutely!

Allan, I love the idea. Maybe it could be split into two sections: one where folks just float ideas/tips out there, the other where people could ask for specific tips.

As a sculptor, I'm constantly facing new problems, because each piece is quite different. But having access to little tips for layout, forming, measure, etc., etc., would be really cool. One thing I'm always wondering about is how to get the same results with fewer tools that a shop stocked with every tool imaginable does. I reckon there's another way (within reason of course) to do some of the things that rollers, shears, brakes, and all those other wonderful toys do (this could be kind of like the list of substitutions one uses when they don't have a certain ingredient while cooking). Making and using jigs. The list goes on and on.

Many years ago, my summer job during high school was working with a general contractor. Practically every day he would show me some new trick that I would never have come up with myself, but which was quite simple and made total sense. What a joy.

Cheers,
James
Parent - - By Shane Feder (****) Date 04-28-2006 10:55
Hello Aevald,
I think it is a great idea and I hope I can help pass on some of the "shortcuts" /helpful hints I have picked up over the years.
I consider myself very lucky / priveleged in the fact I spent 7 years in the Papua New Guinean gold mines with tradesman from all over the world.
These boilermakers/welders/fabricators/steel workers were from the US, Canada, Britain,Germany, France, South Africa,Australia and New Zealand.
Every job we did had more than one way of doing it because every country seemed to do things differently. As a young tradesman I just shut up and soaked in all the knowledge and when I got older I could pick and choose which method suited my talents/abilities.
One thing that still sticks in my mind (after 15 years) is I know 3 different ways to do a "square to round " development.
Hope I can be of some help in the future,
Regards,
Shane
Parent - By Ugotit Date 04-28-2006 12:29
Hi Shane maybe you can up load one of you ideas in an image
Parent - - By jwright650 (*****) Date 04-28-2006 12:59
Another way to soak up some of those old tried and true tricks of the trade...
Attend your local AWS Section meetings.

Click here to read about why I'm suggesting this.........

http://www.aws.org/cgi-bin/mwf/topic_show.pl?id=9098
John Wright


Another thing...in case some of you haven't figured it out yet, when you click on any of these links that are posted in the threads and they take you outside of the forum(like pictures in Photobucket), you can hit your "back" button on your web browser to return back to the same thread without having to re-enter the AWs forum each time.
Parent - - By aevald (*****) Date 04-28-2006 19:51
Okay Folks, I emailed someone at AWS to see about getting a stand-alone section for TRICKS OF THE TRADE. As was mentioned here, I requested a section for the posting of items by individuals who have seen something, done something, or know something that could be of use in the furthering of knowledge of all of us. I also asked that this section might include questions by individuals looking for a different, better or shorter way of accomplishing a task. When and if I hear something I will try to post to let all of you know what the response is. Have a great day and Regards, Allan
Parent - By Ugotit Date 04-29-2006 10:38
Great idea
Parent - - By bamaCWI (**) Date 04-29-2006 21:17
This sounds like a great idea! I am going to try the photo bucket.

http://i64.photobucket.com/albums/h192/bamacwi/100_0083.jpg

Maybe I have done this right. However this photo is not a trick of the trade but I was surprised to find it one Monday morning.
Parent - - By texredneck (**) Date 04-29-2006 22:33
The trick might be knowing what Im looking at. Its pretty dark. Not sure what Im suppose to see??
Parent - - By jwright650 (*****) Date 04-30-2006 00:16
I'm not sure what it is either, but it appears to have had some heat applied in one spot.
John Wright
Parent - - By bamaCWI (**) Date 04-30-2006 00:27
It is a heat mark approx. 18" x 30". It was visable on both sides of the plate ( thickness was 3/4" ). The funny thing is no one knew who did or when it was done.
I should have listed that earlier, sorry.
Scott
Parent - By bamaCWI (**) Date 04-30-2006 22:21
I have posted some layout training documents on photobucket. I am not sure if I have post each one individualy or if the entire album will show. Maybe someone would like to see these. Please let me know if you can not view these, I get a icon in the bottom right corner that will expand the documents.
Scott

http://i64.photobucket.com/albums/h192/bamacwi/Layouttrainingpage1.jpg
http://i64.photobucket.com/albums/h192/bamacwi/Layouttrainingpage2jpg.jpg
http://i64.photobucket.com/albums/h192/bamacwi/layouttrainingpage3.jpg
http://i64.photobucket.com/albums/h192/bamacwi/layouttrainingpage4.jpg
http://i64.photobucket.com/albums/h192/bamacwi/layouttrainingpage5.jpg
Parent - - By aevald (*****) Date 05-03-2006 00:16
Hello again everyone, I have emailed two people with AWS concerning trying to get a special section for TRICKS OF THE TRADE, thus far I haven't had a response from either one of them. If anyone out there knows who I SHOULD be emailing to, I would appreciate an address or a name. Thanks and Regards, aevald
Parent - - By yorkiepap (***) Date 05-15-2006 23:21
Hi aevald,
It's been a couple weeks since you posted your interest in creating a section, "Tricks Of The Trade", to be added to the Forum. Apparently the Forum's residing gurus have not given any consideration since you have not posted any progress. Too bad....I do believe there is a definite place for this section as others also do. What would you suggest? Do you feel that we, who are interested, should e-mail the Forum regarding our support?

Patiently waiting......Denny
Parent - - By barbier (***) Date 05-16-2006 13:51
Your request has finally been heard.  I see no problem with adding a forum as mentioned.  Hope you all find it useful.
Web Admin (Residing Guru) :)
Parent - By yorkiepap (***) Date 05-16-2006 21:00
Residing Guru Barbier,

I will simply say...THANK YOU !!!  And especially to aevald for the idea....THANK YOU !!!

This will be a really nice addition for those of us wanting to look at others' projects and ideas.....Denny
Parent - By tcseacliff Date 05-03-2006 03:06
i just posted a question. I am currently i welding school and can really use an extra outlet for real world help and advice. the only advice i get now is from other students who are about as confused as me sometimes. the instructors in each class even have their own take on proper technique, sometimes contrdicting each other in the process, especially when one fills in for another. some real world avice and tips and tricks would really help us newbies know that maybe the problems we encounter are normal and we are not alone in the quest to weld a servicible bead. i would welcome the site. thank you
Parent - - By barbier (***) Date 05-16-2006 14:53
Welcome to the new section.
Parent - - By swnorris (****) Date 05-16-2006 15:54
tcseacliff,

You're really no different than anyone else who is just learning.  You'll always hear different welders talking about different ways to do the same things, and it's confusing because you don't know who to listen to and who not to listen to.  One welder will show you one way, and tell you, "That's the best way to do it".  Another welder will show you another way and tell you "That's the best way to do it".  Everyone takes bits and pieces of what they've learned as they're coming up, apply them, and that becomes their best way, because it works best for them.  You will have to do the same thing.  That's my advice to you.  What works for some folks doesn't mean that it works for others, because everyone is different and may take different approaches.  Some day you'll be the one showing someone your best way, while someone else shows his/her best way, thus continuing the tradition of confusing the newbies.  The bottom line is that you're working efficiently and producing welds that meet the applicable codes you're working under. 
Parent - - By vonash (**) Date 05-16-2006 23:42
No!
Why create a tread for someone who needs to read the previous posts.
Parent - - By Shane Feder (****) Date 05-19-2006 12:39
Vonash,
What are you drinking?
Shane
Parent - By ssbn727 (*****) Date 05-20-2006 04:37 Edited 05-20-2006 04:49
GoodDay Shane!

vonash just wants some attention, that's all!!!

Now that we have this new "Thread" instead of "tread" or whatever "vonash" was alluding to... I believe we can all start to contribute some of our own "tricks of the trade" do'nt you think vonash???

You've always mentioned or is it bragged about how much information you have regarding your personal wealth and how you got to where you are - blah, blah, blah, woof, woof !!!

You should welcome this as a vehicle to share your secrets to your personal success or maybe NOT!!!
Seriously though, surely you have something to contribute towards the further education of those who are starting out and are looking for some tried & tested tricks of the trades, do'nt you??? I'm writing a list of some of the tricks I learned throughout my journeys and I'll be sharing them as soon as I format them to present on this "thread" I also think of the potential for learning some tricks from others that'll post here also... I'm personally glad the new web admnistrator decided to add this thread and make Aevald's idea a chance to benefit us all because who knows vonash, even you might pick up a trick or two with this new thread instead of going through all of those previous posts in order to find out about something you're looking for when you could just ask the question on this thread!

Respectfully,
SSBN727
Run Silent...  Run Deep!!!
Parent - By waynekoe (**) Date 06-07-2006 21:50
I have to agree with Scott. The most that any one person could really show you would be their own bad habits. You'll develope your own soon enough, then you can teach yours to someone else. The best tips I could pass on is to keep your soapstone sharp, cutting tip clean, and never loan your tools.-Wayne
Parent - - By pghtinhead Date 11-23-2006 20:19
Hey everyone out there! I'm fairly new to the forum thing, and I'm also new to the welding thing. I have a strong interest in welding, and I recently became AWS certified in GMAW, up to .25 inch plate. I can weld pretty well, but have discovered that when welding for any length of joint, my eyes start playing tricks on me. I'll go off the joint a few times in a 4 or 5 foot length. I have an automatic hood which really helps with the astigmatism; I wear corrective lenses for distance, and not when welding. I'm becoming very frustrated, and I would love any input from those who may have overcome this kind of thing. My hood has a 10.5 lens. I think what you folks are doing here is great, I'll be the first to say that I learn something new every day! Keep it up!
Parent - By aevald (*****) Date 11-24-2006 07:55
Hello pghtinhead, I know from experience, a long time ago, that it was real common for me not to blink often enough when I first started welding, that's one thing you may want to consider as you collectively try to figure out why your eyes are acting up on you. Another common thing to do is not pay attention to the condition of the protective lens covers on your hood, as they become scratched and smoked up and pitted from the welding that you are doing, it can become very difficult to see the weld pool and surrounding areas. In some instances, if you tend to get too close to the weld zone, you may actually melt the protective cover and cause weird refractory blemishes on the cover plate. These can cause your eyes and brain to become confused a bit as to what you are actually seeing. You stated that you needed corrective lenses for distance, does that mean that you don't need any correction for looking at things close up? If you do need some help with things which are close up there are a number of options for dealing with this condition. There are safety glasses which are available in various reading glass strengths and for some hoods they can be fitted with correction which is commonly referred to as "cheater lens", these can be purchased at most welding supply stores, you can also generally find the corrective safety glasses at these stores also. Not seeing can certainly be frustrating, don't give up I'm sure you will be able to figure out something to help with this. Regards, aevald
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