Home Remedies for Flashburn?

Date 08-30-2006 01:14

Hey pipes,
Since you indicate you are a welder, please be so kind as to explain to all here on the forum why you would assist someone knowing the dangers with welding that you would not protect your eyes.....and any other part of your body. Since you are requesting home remedies, may I suggest some common sense and the forethought of protecting yourself from such incidents in the future. This is my remedy and it has never failed me.....Denny

By beehive Date 08-30-2006 11:52

Denny......
Your reply was mean-spirited and not helpfull. Belive me... a welder rarely suffers from flash burn twice.

By yorkiepap (***)

Date 08-30-2006 15:55

Beehive,
The reply was not meant to be mean-spirited or demeaning in any way. I have seen so many needless and preventable accidents in my years that I try to understand why simple protective measures aren't utilized. If I have offended...I sincerely apologize. And, yes, I once made a millisecond mistake 35 years ago by not wearing eye protection doing a quick buffing operation and paid the price of discomfort for a week...never did it again.....the eyes are the most precious.....Denny

By Lawrence (*****)

Date 08-30-2006 16:48

Denny makes **THE** most important point in my opinion in this whole thread.

Better to hold somebody accountable in a verbal forum than to talk about cucumber cream.

The eyes are the soft entry point to the brain.

Nobody should ever be comfortable on the jobsite without safety glasses on 100% of the time.

Walk onto the shop floor with them on.

Get out of the truck with them on.

No excuses, no reasons not to have safety glasses, this includes under the hood.

If your a welder and your fitter is not wearing eye protection.... Stop working until he has eye protection or is off the site. Thats how it works. If we are making the flash we share in being responsible for those around us. This includes managers and formen who aren't wearing eye protection.

This kind of dogmatic, demanding attitude is not mean spirited at all... it is servant leadership!

By CHGuilford (****)

Date 08-30-2006 17:05

I have to admit- after I read the initial post, and before reading any further, my first thought was that an ounce of prevention is worth a pound of cure.

Reading further, I think the best advice give so far is to consult with a health care professional, preferably an eye doctor, whenever you have an eye injury (which is exactly what "arc flashes" is).

By pipes

Date 09-01-2006 01:29

WOW! Excuse me! I thought we would all just have a little fun talking about some of the dumb remedies we have seen or heard of. Obviously you take yourself much more seriously than I do. Also, I resent very much the implication that I was not wearing eye protection. I never said that! I said, some say that clear lenses will protect you, this is not true as I found out. It may help, but it is not the end-all. Any fitter worth his salt will get flash burn from time to time. Have you ever fit pipe? If you have you would know that to hold a fitting level while the welder tacks it requires the fitter to look almost directly into the weld arc. Any fitter that looks away will turn the fitting as he turns his head. This results in re-fitting the piece until the fitter gets enough guts to watch the level. I never weld or fit without saftey glasses but accidents happen. I thought we could have some fun discussion on this site without getting all serious with every post. Perhaps I was wrong, I guess that is just my lack of common sense, right Denny? I just suggest that we all take a lesson from Michael Jackson and lighten up!!!!!

No hard feelings, just trying to have a litten fun on this earth before I die! Pipes

By Shane Feder (****)

Date 09-01-2006 03:28

Pipes,
Prior to becoming a CWI my career was as a pipefitter or pipewelder using GTAW or SMAW.
I have had arc eye (flashburn) numerous times while wearing safety glasses (all the glasses do is lessen the effect).
The worst flash is in from the side and not all safety glasses have sideshields.
Some of the members on this post may be from a workshop environment where the majority of work is GMAW or FCAW. You have to pull the trigger before the handpiece is live which makes it very hard to give yourself a flash as you can poke the gun into the prep and then pull the trigger.
With GTAW or SMAW your electrode is always live so you have to have total concentration when you are about to strike an arc. As arc strikes are not allowed on most pipework you have to get the tip of the electrode / tungsten as close as possible to the prep before flicking down your helmet and one moment of lack of concentration can cause you to ignite the arc before you have got your helmet down thereby giving yourself or your fitter a flash.
Regards,
Shane

By jwright650 (*****)

Date 09-01-2006 10:06

"With GTAW or SMAW your electrode is always live so you have to have total concentration when you are about to strike an arc. As arc strikes are not allowed on most pipework you have to get the tip of the electrode / tungsten as close as possible to the prep before flicking down your helmet and one moment of lack of concentration can cause you to ignite the arc before you have got your helmet down thereby giving yourself or your fitter a flash." - quote by Shane

Hi Shane/Pipes,
This situation that you describe is about the only advantage I have found in having an Auto-Darkening Shield. We don't like to have arc strikes outside of the joint either and the guys who only have SMAW welders at thier work stations have to tack the pieces and get the alignment correct with levels and squares while fussing with some of these tacking rods (E7028) that don't like to relight after they have been burned one time already. No doubt if you work around this stuff long enough, you will at some time get a few flashes that you weren't expecting. I remember when I was just learning to weld with SMAW and using a E7018 for the first time...Man, the misery of not getting that shield flicked down in time...

By CHGuilford (****)

Date 09-01-2006 12:16

Pipes,
If you read in this forum long enough, you will see that some of the simplest things are misunderstood.
From your posts, you have been around welders and construction workers at least once or twice. You know we all tend to be blunt when speaking our minds. One of the disadvantages of this forum is that you cannot hear the voice inflections, or tone of voice, that everyone relies on when talking to other people.

If you were to ask the question "What's the best way to remove porosity once you have it?", I guarantee there would be some posts that say "I would never allow that to happen in the first place". Nobody means anything by it. Chalk it up to human nature.

By jwright650 (*****)

Date 09-01-2006 13:57

Chet,
You're right the "typed word" is hardly ever taken "as it was meant", for the very reasons you stated.

By yorkiepap (***)

Date 09-01-2006 13:38

pipes,
I'll respond in your order of comments. If you need a remedy, how can that be fun? I take everything seriously regarding my personal safety, ESPECIALLY the eyes! You can resent the implication whether you were wearing eye protection, but your eyes were damaged, so how were your eyes protected? Please don't indicate there is no way to protect your eyes while doing this kind of work. Some may not like the auto-darkening helmets or goggles, but they do work quite nicely. If not auto-darkening, there are lenses that will allow you to see what you are doing, yet offer adequate protection from arc flash. If any fitter worth his salt gets flashburn from time to time, what would that indicate? As John Wright posted, does lost time from the job benefit anyone? No, I have never fit pipe. If I did, I would investigate what is entailed to do the job safely and maintain my personal well being.

"THE FITTER GETS ENOUGH GUTS"!!!!!!!!!!....your quote. What in the world does that say? Are you telling me and everyone else here that possibly going blind by a lack of personal safety takes guts???? DUUUHHHHH!!!

Pipes, I enjoy fun as much as anyone, but I feel having fun can be so much more enjoyable being able to look at it.....that takes VISION! What I am saying is that safety has to be serious and this forum is to discuss all the parameters of keeping oneself safe in the welding arena. When you "lighten up" concerning safety and your personal well-being, you will pay the price....and that is an absolute.

I don't have hard feelings either. Pipes, I was in total darkness for over a week and it was an awakening I will never "lighten up" on. And it allows me to have a lot of fun on this earth before I die.....Denny

By Lawrence (*****)

Date 09-01-2006 15:34

This may appear to be beating a dead horse but just a few more words about eye protection.

The national standard for eye protection is Z87.1. The first thing a craftsman ought to do is check to make sure your safety glasses (with side shields) have this designation (it will be stenciled on the frame)

Safety Glasses meeting this standard will have 99.9% protection against UV-A and UV-B radiation. Here is a link to some good stats.
http://www.equipdirect.com/index.asp?PageAction=Custom&ID=3

The thing that I wonder about is this; I have heard from a number of reliable sources that they have recieved "arc flash" eye burns while wearing eye protection that filters out 99.9% Just like Pipes. Now how is that possible??? I can understand picking up a headache or seeing spots, but the burn should not be possible with the UV safety glasses... I wonder if the manufacturers are selling defective products or what?

By boilermaker_27 Date 01-03-2007 20:00

I dont know how such a simple question turned into the spanish inquisition about safety. The fact of the matter is that no matter how much you protect yourself, accidents DO happen sometimes unfortunately. If you have never had an accident of some sort or gotten hurt in any way on the job site, you obviously are working in a trade that allows you to be safe all the time. Not all trades allow for that comfort level of safety without comprimising the ability to do your job. Not all of us have the good fortune to sit at a workbench in a perfect world and weld... some of us actually have to get in there and do the dirty work. I absolutely believe in being as safe as I possibly can, but sometimes things happen. I ran across this post because I was looking for similar remedies, as I myself flashed my eyes last night. I was crawling through a small diameter pipe, barely big enough for me to get through, with a live TIG torch trying to get to some tubes that I needed to weld. Now obviously, I did not have the tungsten in the torch to try and be as safe as possible, but when I reached the end of the pipe, I was struggling to get my hood on with one hand while fumbling around with a flashlight, a TIG torch, tungsten and my wire with the other. Once I finally got settled, I inserted my tungsten into the torch and then all it took was one split second slip and I struck an unexpected arc on the pipe about 3 inches from my face. I immediatly reacted and shut my eyes and pulled the tungsten away breaking the arc, but that split second is all it takes and wala, my eyes are cooked. NOW, it may be easy for you to say use some common sense and protect yourself at all cost, but again I say to you, go back to your perfect little workshop, sit down in your chair at your workbench and weld in your perfect little world and leave the real welding to those of us that can handle it.

By New-Welder1 (*)

Date 08-30-2006 03:24

Well i personally have not yet suffered from flash burn, my instructor also says that simple clear saftey glasses will help reflect the arc, Although i have heard several home remedies, everything from soaking bread in milk and putting it over your eyes to chopping up potatos and putting them over your eyes, Though many of the old timers i have talked to say none of these really work.

By Shane Feder (****)

Date 08-30-2006 06:36

Pipes,
Arc eye (flash burn) is when the protective film on the eye ball is burnt off by the flash of an arc. That is why it feels like someone has thrown sand in your eyes.
Over the years I have found the best home remedy is egg whites which replaces the film on the eye ball. The other I have heard of but never tried is tea bags placed on the eyes.
Regards,
Shane

By jwright650 (*****)

Date 08-30-2006 12:09

I've had it too, when I was first associated with any type of welding I was well aware that it could happen, so I was always shielding my eyes from the flash while walking in the shop because it was so bright and noticeable. But one time I was outside in the bright sunlight and folks were welding nearby and I was working and not paying a whole lot of attention to the flashes going on nearby because outside they were not as noticeable. The next morning when I woke up, my eye lashes were literally glued together and I had to fumble into the kitchen and get a handfull of paper towel and wet it, then lay it on my eye lids to dissolve the glue that was holding my eyes shut....before I could get them open.

Beehive is right, welders will only let that happen "once". It has to be one of the most miserable, helpless feelings. I think some type of eye moisturizer with some type of anti-infection medicine in it, is about all that I know to do for it, if some time has passed. If you catch it early enough the eye doc can give you a sav that will help your eyes heal and keep the infection down.

By jon20013 (*****)

Date 08-30-2006 15:00

Tons of studies have been done on the effects of flashburn, the consensus seems to be they normally cause no permanent damage... still, they are painful and who knows which study to trust anymore. Lessons learned. The AWS Website has a good section of safety and health factsheets available for review and printing. Everyone should know about these and take advantage of them.

By Cgregory (**)

Date 08-30-2006 12:29

The following (non-AWS) websites may offer some help:

http://www.betterhealth.vic.gov.au/bhcv2/bhcarticles.nsf/pages/Eye_injuries_flash_burns?open (this is an Australian health page)

http://www.emedicinehealth.com/corneal_flash_burns/page7_em.htm#Self-Care%20at%20Home

http://www.medicineonline.com/reference/Health/Services/On-Line_Health_Consulting/info/Corneal-Flash-Burns/

I can't speak for the reliability of any of these sites. You might want to go to an eye doctor for better advice.

-- Christine

By hogan

Date 08-30-2006 14:28

the liquid coacaine should never be used, it causes your eyes to slowly melt.

By RonG

Date 08-30-2006 21:10

I and some other welders have been burned while welding with the hood in place. Working in the bed of a very large rock truck. The walls reflected the light from behind and and bounced back off our filters. A learning lesson to cover the back of the hood when work to close another welder.

By BillC

Date 08-30-2006 23:30

I can't speak about home remedies as I've never allowed myself to get flashed without eye protection. I have simple advice: Always wear close fitting ANSI Z87 compliant safety glasses. Under your hood it protects against reflections and gives another two magnitudes of protection. With your hood up it protects against everything from other welders' arcs to "OOPS I forgot to lower my hood."

Safety glasses in the workplace (and hearing protection) are as natural to me as buckling up, tying my shoe laces, or zipping my zipper. Why would you ever take them off?

Regards,

By Eutectic (**)

Date 08-31-2006 04:52 Edited 08-31-2006 04:54

Good morning,
Where I'm from we call it arc-eyes. It would seem to get you when the arc is not directly in front of you but more from the side when it is not so irritating, like John said. It is like sunburn, the radiation burns your cornea, dries it out and as you blink, starts to shrivel and roll it up into small sand like particles. Just go to a pharmacists or an optometrist. They have anti-inflammatory drops (I think Voltaren) and they have drops that numb your eyes. However if you use this they will tell you to stay inside out of the wind and weather as you will not feel if something else enter your eyes. Stay out of sharp light; and rest. Leave the home remedies and old wives tales for the bronthers GRIMM.
I just had LASIK done on my eyes, and never before have I contemplated what it would be like to be without them. Therefore I agree with all, take extra care, with everything. Yesterday had a maintainance guy loose four fingers in a stupid accident involving Hydraulics. Carelessness leads to harm, if not yourself then to others.

Cheers

By jwright650 (*****)

Date 08-31-2006 10:27

Eutectic,
We had a Worker's Comp Committee meeting yesterday and was talking about some facts and figures, and it was alarming how much "maintenance" came up during the conversations. We discovered a trend that has us looking very hard at our maintenance guys. We have three guys here and out of all of our (140+)employees here at this location that are exposed to hazzards in our shop, those three guys all have lost time accidents/or incidents. What is more alarming is that they also account for over 60% of all of our recorded accidents(figures that you can't ignore). The thing that I believe we need to work at is watching these guys to see just how many bad habits they have while doing their jobs. There is a pyramid the insurance companies use showing one loss time accident at the top and under that there are four minor injuries, and under that there are 300 near misses where no one ws injured but they had potential for injury, then under that was 1000+ bad habits that could lead to an injury or I should say chances that they took and just didn't get hurt. What this says is that for every loss time accident there were 1000's of chances taken by our maintenance people for every accident they had.

This sounds a very loud alarm to me! We have a WC insurance policy where it's a sorta "pay as we go" type policy where you estimate your losses for the year and pay accordingly, and for several years now we have acually gotten money back at the end of the year, but this year(2006) we will be lucky if we break even due to this trend that we are looking at very hard. I don't want to bust these guys chops too hard because they are really hard workers and take pride in keeping the shop up and running, but if we eat up our profits paying claims, this sorta defeats any gains these guys have helped us with. They need to develope better/safer habits.....period.

By jon20013 (*****)

Date 08-31-2006 11:34

Man, John, if I had 3 guys accounting for 60% of lost time injuries I feel I would have no choice but to terminate their employment. We have a similar insurance structure and that kind of thing hurts every employee through higher costs. Maybe give these guys some very structured training and warn each of them that unsafe practices will result in their termination.

By jwright650 (*****)

Date 08-31-2006 11:36

I'm getting all of my "$ facts" in a row now, and we'll be having a discussion with them soon about all of this.

By jon20013 (*****)

Date 08-31-2006 11:39

Cool. It wouldn't surprize me if the $$$ were in the 1000's on an annual basis, distributed among all... sad... the pareto principle is so apparent.

By jwright650 (*****)

Date 08-31-2006 11:46

Jon,
They are really good people, we just need to work with them diligently to turn this trend around. I need for them to see that even though they work hard at watching the cost of repairs and seeking out good prices and sources for parts, that they are just wasting their time trying to be cost conscience when they keep piling up claims and we end up spending the money they saved us to doctors, and all of the hidden costs associated with those claims.

By jon20013 (*****)

Date 08-31-2006 12:30

explain the dollars and cents to them and show them how their injuries cost every employee in the company, make them attend safety training courses ~ either self study (with tests) or classroom, but I highly recommend you put some "teeth" in the lesson with a clear warning that continued injuries will result in the company parting ways with their services.

By jwright650 (*****)

Date 08-31-2006 12:36

Jon,
All good suggestions.

By Northweldor (***)

Date 08-31-2006 22:39

"They need to develope better/safer habits.....period."

I agree, especially if they represent 60% of your lost time accidents. However, in your re-education efforts, I hope you include one more factor; making sure that management or their immediate superiors or fellow workers haven't given them the impression that production supersedes safe practice.
During my apprenticeship, I worked for a large railroad (140,000 employees) with a safety program with regular meetings, exams, levels of accreditation, and demerits for non-compliance. However, everyone knew that when the safety meeting was over, and the exams were written, that you were expected to do whatever was necessary to keep the trains moving and it was often the case that safe conditions did not exist on the job, and the employee who worked to the rule wasn't around for long. (I left after several close calls due to these conditions).
When people claim that accidents are nearly all preventable, they are often ignoring the pressure put on employees to do the quick expedient job, rather than the safest possible.

By jon20013 (*****)

Date 09-01-2006 12:23

Some of our posts tend to get beaten to death, this seems to be one of those. My humble opinion.

By 357max

Date 09-01-2006 15:42

For novices who read this post; please don't use these "home remedies" to soothe arc burned eye balls. Only sterile medical products should be applied to the eyes. Virus/bacteria introduced to the eyes is a powerful bad thing to happen. I don't know what a "Staph" infection is; is it a bacteria or virus but it is deadly and not just found by being in a hospital.
The greatest safety equipment is the safety glasses with the stainless steel mesh sideshields and using the #4 filter shade full face shield for the fitter. And they only work when worn correctly.
OSHA/Safety Officers are requiring double eye protection be worn at all times when performing welding operations. That is wearing both safety glasses and face shield.
If your safety gear is the throwaway type of safety glasses check for flammability of the frame before using. Some glasses are impact resistant but will burn when a flame is applied to the frame.
Let's be safe out there and have fun.

By Cgregory (**)

Date 09-01-2006 16:02

"Staph" refers to one of about 4000 species of bacteria, some harmless, some beneficial and some with potentially adverse effects on humans.

By chris2698 (****)

Date 01-04-2007 05:27

When I first started welding a year ago I didn't wear safety glasses for about 6 months but when i had to work at a plant they were mandatory and i'm glad. I now wear mine all the time when welding I feel naked if I don't wear them. I to have heard from my teacher it will cut down on getting flashburn. I have had many times hot sparks will come into my helmet and the glasses have helped tons on keeping my eyes safe.

Chris

By Joseph P. Kane (****)

Date 01-04-2007 13:13

357 Max!!!!

I support your warning. If you value your eyesight and your general health, GO TO A DOCTOR!!!! PLEASE DO NOT USE HOME REMEDIES!!!! The eyes are sensitive. They also are subject to what is known as "Sympathetic Reaction". (An infection or injury to one eye could result in blindness or damage to both eyes, or at least the eyesight in the undamaged eye.) I know a missionary priest who told me that the Inuits put Kerosine on the eye for snowblindness. They didn't have any adverse reactions. The missionary priest tried it had to be evacuated to a hospital!

By ssbn727 (*****)

Date 01-05-2007 04:37

I agree Jon, and that's why I've got one word to say about this thread: "Ischcabibble"!!!
Which simply means "Enough already"!!! Go to the ER and get it checked out - plain & simple...

Do'nt waste time with home remedies like the ones mentioned because, you might end up making the situation worse - PERIOD!!! ENOUGH SAID!!! "Ischcabibbble"!!! How's that for "Verbal Expression"??? "Ischcabibble"!!!

Btw, Pipes, Beehive!!!! "Weldcome" to the AWS Forum!!!

Respectfully,
SSBN727
Run Silent... Run Deep!!!

By Sourdough (****)

Date 01-06-2007 14:49

Dont tell anyone I told you this: Get to be good friends with your local vetrinarian. They still are allowed to carry the "special" eye stuff that will help you. Just don't be macho and go back to work after you get the drops. Potatoes sort of work, or castoroil also.