Chinese manufacturer--welding machine

Date 04-22-2006 09:52

1. To say 'If you were to read...' is a gratuitous rudeness, as I'm sure you are aware and I'm equally sure you don't care but rather pride yourself on the way you sling it around.

I'm here to tell you it doesn't go unnoticed, it doesn't look good, it doesn't sound good and it doesn't win you any friends - and in China it will have had a considerable affect.

I simply point out that at times when you are thinking you have avoided buying Chinese you will unknowingly purchase some Chinese component deep within the appliance, even if the whole appliance is not made in China.

But soon the whole appliance will be made in China because you are American and America is wedded wholly and solely to the idea of making a buck and the profit motive and ALL American manufacturers will go offshore. Just like all Australian and all English..... etc., etc...

And when that happens you'll have no choice.

And on the way there the manufacturers, wholesalers, distributors, will have no compunction whatever in doing all they can to hide the country of origin, of manufacture, of that appliance.

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2. I said I didn't understand your comment and I don't. I elaborated a little to make clear why I didn't understand. Seems you still don't get it. So let's try again: To paraphrase, you say that the job I save might not be my own. So it seems you think I'm doing something intended to save a job - and, in fact, intended to save MY job (but, you say, I might be disappointed in this).

Well what am I doing? I'm not aware of doing any such thing.

I'm just carrying on a bit about the inevitability of cheap labour cornering the manufacturing market everywhere in the world.

Perhaps if people stopped buying foreign things then there'd be more work here at home. So if people took my remarks to heart and stopped buying foreign things then that might save my job, here.

Right. I can see that.

Is that what you meant?

But it could be that all the saved jobs are in some other industry, not mine, and i still lose my job. Is that what you meant? Okay. I can understand that. Okay. I finally made it. I see what you're saying.

But then what's this latest stuff about counterfeiting about? What bearing does that have on it all? That's a similar but different thing. Because that's jobs at home lost (or no expansion, anyway) because our product can't be marketed in China because they're producing their own counterfeit.

My remarks and their 'don't buy foreign' don't have a bearing there.

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3. 'Everything with no quality...' is ludicrous. It is obvious false as any sweeping generalisation is bound to be.

'The Chinese I worked with...' is a reference to your sample. Fine. It is not the definitive sample and not even, I'd maintain, a representative sample.

'There is no incentive....' Ludicrous. On the whole. Of course there'll be places within which there's no incentive. Just as there are in America. But generally a country like China has the greatest of all incentive... they are shockingly poor... were a subject, downtrodden people all the way to 1949.... are now experiencing a dramatic upsurge.... There's incredible incentive in China. Incredible. Would that our nations had a fraction of it.

'Don't tell me about China...' But I will tell you about China. The China I know. That's customary polite conversation. That's what discussions are for. I will tell you and I'll tell anyone else that raises the subject with me. I will not be silenced by you.

'I know what I saw.' Well I don't know if you do or you don't. I don't know what you saw or what construction you put upon it. But I know you didn't see all of China or all the Chinese and I do know you are wrong to think there's no quality in China and its manufacturing. Ludicrously wrong as you'd recognise yourself if anyone else were saying it.

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4 'My opinion and being an American....' You live in a fool's paradise, my friend. Being an American you have the right to be locked up without trial, you have the right to be 'disposed of' by your own government. You have the right for all your communications to be spied upon at whim, telephone, mail, internet, anything. You live in the country with the greatest percentage of its population imprisoned of any country on earth.

If you care to look you'll find Chinese giving voice to every kind of opinion both inside and outside China. Just as they did back in Tienanmin square.

The Chinese have constitutional rights that are at this time being developed and formulated - after millenia of struggle. Some of these rights may exist on paper or in concept before they can be freely used in the streets with impunity, that's to be expected. But the Chinese will use them, with or without impunity, because the Chinese are on the road to freedom and they are very happy about it.

It is strange indeed that so many Americans - who think they are the 'home of freedom' - evince barely concealed hostility at the Chinese in this endeavour, rather than rushing to help them.

But then, when it comes to it, they don't help each other much, do they? You've rather got a 'dog eat dog' society, haven't you? Beaut for the top dog. Not so good lower down.

And those 'lower down' you've got some wonderful words for haven't you? We see them in the movies and in the literature. 'Bottom feeders', 'Scum', 'losers' .....

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5. Your Pinyin: Ching Boo Yau Pien Wu is better rendered as Qing Bu Yao Pian Wo ( 请不要骗我 ) and means Please do not deceive me transliterated probably as 'Don't cheat me' but meaning generally 'Don't lie to me.' which can easily in context mean you're calling a man a liar. Depends how and when you use it.

An aggressive, truculent, ill mannered, know-it-all foreigner with a superiority complex towards the Chinese would almost certainly leave a trail of enmity behind him by using such a phrase.

The general word for 'quality' is zhiliang ( 质量 )

The word and other words for 'quality' are used in the following sentences:

高质量的中国人写高质量的汉语. 高质量的西方人写高质量的英语.优美的音乐,精致的产品,高雅的艺术.极品等这些都是质量的最高尺度.

regards,

ab :)

By spatterbrain (*)

Date 04-22-2006 13:15

I told you you have special interests there. It is no use continuing this discussion. You are too biased and condescending. I'm finished with you.
My spelling was Phonetic. I don't know where you got yours.

I do not look down on the Chinese. I have Chinese friends. I just don't think they make quality products as a rule.

I guess you actually believe the Great Wall(s) were built to keep the Hessians out of China too, huh?

One more thing. What constitutional rights do the Chinese have? Name 1. What freedoms do they have? Name 1!

By abrogard (*)

Date 04-22-2006 19:46

You would do well to engage the brain before putting the mouth in gear.

All citizens of the People's Republic of China are equal before the law.

Every citizen is entitled to the rights and at the same time must perform the duties prescribed by the Constitution and the law.

The State respects and preserves human rights.

Article 34. Voting requirements

All citizens of the People's Republic of China who have reached the age of 18 have the right to vote and stand for election, regardless of ethnic status, race, sex, occupation, family background, religious belief, education, property status or length of residence, except persons deprived of political rights according to law.

Article 35. Freedom of speech, press, assembly

Citizens of the People's Republic of China enjoy freedom of speech, of the press, of assembly, of association, of procession and of demonstration.

Article 36. Religious freedom

Citizens of the People's Republic of China enjoy freedom of religious belief.

No state organ, public organization or individual may compel citizens to believe in, or not believe in, any religion; nor may they discriminate against citizens who believe in, or do not believe in, any religion.

The state protects normal religious activities. No one may make use of religion to engage in activities that disrupt public order, impair the health of citizens or interfere with the educational system of the state.

Religious bodies and religious affairs are not subject to any foreign domination.

Article 37. Freedom of person

Freedom of the person of citizens of the People's Republic of China is inviolable.

No citizens may be arrested except with the approval or by decision of a people's procuratorate or by decision of a people's court, and arrests must be made by a public security organ.

Unlawful detention or deprivation or restriction of citizens' freedom of the person by other means is prohibited, and unlawful search of the person of citizens is prohibited.

Article 38. Freedom from insult

The personal dignity of citizens of the People's Republic of China is inviolable. Insult, libel, false accusation or false incrimination directed against citizens by any means is prohibited.

Article 39. Inviolability of the home

The residences of citizens of the People's Republic of China are inviolable. Unlawful search of, or intrusion into, a citizen's residence is prohibited.

Article 40. Privacy of correspondence

Freedom and privacy of correspondence of citizens of the People's Republic of China are protected by law. No organization or individual may, on any ground, infringe on citizens' freedom of privacy of correspondence, except in cases where to meet the needs of state security or of criminal investigation, public security or procuratorial organs are permitted to censor correspondence in accordance with procedures prescribed by law.

Article 41. Right to petition the state

Citizens of the People's Republic of China have the right to criticize and make suggestions regarding any state organ or functionary. Citizens have the right to make to relevant state organs complaints or charges against, or exposures of, any state organ or functionary for violation of the law or dereliction of duty, but fabrication or distortion of facts for purposes of libel or false incrimination is prohibited.

The state organ concerned must deal with complaints, charges or exposures made by citizens in a responsible manner after ascertaining the facts. No one may suppress such complaints, charges and exposures or retaliate against the citizens making them.

Citizens who have suffered losses as a result of infringement of their civic rights by any state organ or functionary have the right to compensation in accordance with the law.

Article 42. Right and duty to work

Citizens of the People's Republic of China have the right as well as the duty to work.

Through various channels, the state creates conditions for employment, enhances occupational safety and health, improves working conditions and, on the basis of expanded production, increases remuneration for work and welfare benefits.

Work is the glorious duty of every able-bodied citizen. All working people in State-owned enterprises and in urban and rural economic collectives should perform their tasks with an attitude consonant with their status as masters of the country. The State promotes socialist labor emulation, and commends and rewards model and advanced workers. The State encourages citizens to take part in voluntary labor.

The state provides necessary vocational training for citizens before they are employed.

Article 43. Right to rest

Working people in the People's Republic of China have the right to rest.

The state expands facilities for the rest and recuperation of the working people and prescribes working hours and vacations for workers and staff.

Article 44. Protection of retirement

The state applies the system of retirement for workers and staff of enterprises and institutions and for functionaries of organs of state according to law. The livelihood of retried personnel is ensured by the state and society.

Article 45. Protection of old, ill, disabled

And on and on and on...........

Take a look for yourself:

http://www.usconstitution.net/china.html

Where the Chinese constitution is so new that you could say it is in the process of being adopted your American constitution is so old it has been corrupted to the extent where you've lost nearly all your 'guaranteed' freedoms and rights.

Where the Chinese are in the process of coming into their heritage (for the first time in 3000 years) the American people are in the process of losing theirs. After only 400 years.

Let's hope Chinese freedom doesn't have such a short lifespan.

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The spelling of your quotation was according to the system of PinYin commonly used in China today.

Extract from Wikipedia entry:

Pinyin: Hànyǔ Pīnyīn, lit. "Chinese language phonetic notation"), often shortened to pinyin (Chinese: 拼音; Pinyin: pīnyīn, lit. "phonetic notation" or "phonetic symbols" while pin means "spell(ing)" and yin means "sound(s)"), is a system of romanization (phonemic notation and transcription to Roman script) for Standard Mandarin. Hanyu Pinyin was approved in 1958 and adopted in 1979 by the government in the People's Republic of China.

As you can see this is, in fact, a phonetic system. That is the whole purpose of it. Your spelling was not phonetic inasmuch as Pien is not the same word as Pian.

regards,

ab :)

By spatterbrain (*)

Date 04-23-2006 06:34

This is good. You're venting. That's good for your health.

Ok, first of all, the link you gave me, although very interesting, is not official, but I wll comment on it.

1. Article 34. “Voting Requirements”. I did notice that the Chinese are very keen on voting. I guess if that’s one of the few rights you have, you take advantage of it.

2. Article 35 “Freedom of Speech", Press and assembly was proven not to exist the other day when Chinese TV shut down broadcasting when the heckler started in DC.

3. Article 36 “Religious Freedom” I don’t know enough about that to comment. I did work in an area where the majority of the people were Muslim. I guess as long as they keep their thoughts to themselves and don’t interfere with the communist Party they are OK. In fact there does seem to be a lot of restrictions right in the constitution. You even stated it.

4. Article 37. “Freedom of Person” Yes they have the Freedom of Person unless a procurator ate (Whatever the Chinese interpretation of that is. Sounds like a just about anyone can fit that description) says different.

5. Article 38. “Freedom of Insult” I know and you know that the Chinese are very big on saving face and insults can get you killed there. I agree. It is part of their culture. Don’t know if should be a constitutional right though.

6. Article 40. “Freedom of Correspondence” Hah! What a joke. What a loophole. “Unless it meets the needs of the state"? Who decides that?

7. Article 41 “ Right to petition the state”? I don’t know one Chinese person in Mainland China or even Taiwan that will criticize the state openly. The ones that do are in jail.

8. Article 42. “Right & DUTY to Work” More of a duty. Why do 99% of the people in North Central China carry shovels everywhere they go? Please tell me that. The other 1% are under 8 years old.

9. Article 45 “Protection of Old, Ill and Disabled” You mean to tell me you never saw an old aged beggar in China? Ok All countries have them so don’t BS about it.

Article 51 “Non-infringement of Rights” Citizens of the People's Republic of China, in exercising their freedoms and rights, may not infringe upon the interests of the state, of society or of the collective, or upon the lawful freedoms and rights of other citizens. What does this tell you?

10. Article 52 through 57 describe duties and not rights.

“Where the Chinese constitution is so new that you could say it is in the process of being adopted your American constitution is so old it has been corrupted to the extent where you've lost nearly all your 'guaranteed' freedoms and rights.

Where the Chinese are in the process of coming into their heritage (for the first time in 3000 years) the American people are in the process of losing theirs. After only 400 years.

Let's hope Chinese freedom doesn't have such a short lifespan.”

This is your quote. Let’s elaborate on this.

I know you had an interest there. Yes the Chinese history goes back more than 3000 years. Probably 5000. Very impressive too. I’ve always found the Chinese history to be very interesting. But it has been 5000 years of oppression.

I have stood on the Great Wall of China. Not the “Fake Wall of China" in Beijing. I don't believe the wall in Beijing has been restored to its original form.

In one area, built during the Yuan Dynasty (1200 years ago). I hope I spelled that to your satisfaction. The wall had a 30' vertical drop on one side and was tapered on the other side. You could walk right up to the top. I guess you think the South side was tapered. Wrong! The North Side was tapered. The wall out west near Kazakhstan was rebuilt like the original. Not like the wall in Beijing. There is a Fortress at the end of the wall near Kazakhstan. The Archer’s posts on the wall are on the South side and not the north. The gates open to the north. That tells me the wall was built to keep the Chinese in. not to keep enemies out. I have a picture to prove it.

As far as American freedom having a short life span, don’t you worry! American Freedom will be here long after you and me are gone. At least until the last American is gone. Don't under estimate us.

I see why you want to buy Chinese products. I think it is because you are either Chinese yourself or deal directly with them.

Anyway, have a nice day. :-)