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- - By rick harnish (***) Date 06-16-2008 20:49
Some absolute #$%@head,sumb**^%, theiving bastard stole my propane bottle off my trailer while I had it stored for two weeks! Man, I would have loved to arrived while it was occuring! Seems I am becoming a target for this kind of crap. Tired of it. Love buying new stuff, detest replacing stuff I already own. Would love to punch him with my truck! Cost 79 to replace. Drop in the bucket,I realize, but painful to endure! The RV community usually leave each others stuff be. Thank you for allowing me to vent, as I guess thats all I can do at this point....:( 
Parent - - By jrw159 (*****) Date 06-16-2008 21:45
Rick,
  That sucks. Here is a link to another thread that may be along the lines of what happened to your tank.

http://www.aws.org/cgi-bin/mwf/topic_show.pl?pid=99942;hl=propane%20bottles

I say this because I too have not had any problems with the RV community in general. Everyone seems to look out for one another, and would never steal something they could ask for. Of course there are bad apples in every group, but I think they are less than average in the RV group.
Parent - - By rick harnish (***) Date 06-16-2008 22:14
John, thank you for enduring my rant. I had just discovered the problem. Guess I shouldnt be so naive thinking someone wouldnt possibly steal from my trailer. Live and learn. Anything out there they cant make drugs out of? (based on the link)
Parent - By rick harnish (***) Date 06-16-2008 22:16
And yes, aside from making crank, just ask. I will assist.
Parent - - By jrw159 (*****) Date 06-17-2008 00:57 Edited 06-17-2008 01:15
Rick,
  I too was caught off guard by this misuse of propane tanks. I have traveled many miles through many differant communities, and never(knock on wood) had a tank stolen from my fifth wheel, AND THEY ARE NEVER LOCKED. As far as your question, If it has any value at all, an addict will take it at any opportune time. They can not help it in most circumstances. The drugs take total control.

Best wishes,
John

EDIT for spelling, and it is probably still wrong. LOL
Parent - - By rick harnish (***) Date 06-17-2008 01:03
thanks for the ear, brother. good luck and health with the softball!
Parent - - By jrw159 (*****) Date 06-17-2008 01:14
Anytime, and thanks I will need it. :-)
Parent - - By MDG Custom Weld (***) Date 06-17-2008 17:28
Funny this comes up...I mean about using that stuff for illegal acts.

Over a recent long weekend shutdown, our plant had someone cut the locks from the gates and steal 25 fork truck propane tanks.  Thousands of pounds of scrap stainless and mild steel, and they only took the propane tanks.  Go figure.
The local authorities stated they thought all of them would be used for such activity.  But once they realized that those tanks only discharge liquid and not vapor gas, they thought they would be looking for the ensuing explosion that would follow.  I have not yet heard of anything turning up.
Parent - By rick harnish (***) Date 06-17-2008 18:30
BOOM! Now thats justice!
Parent - By and4rik (**) Date 06-18-2008 04:23
Would love to punch him with my truck!

If you build it, they will come.
Parent - - By sbcmweb (****) Date 06-18-2008 13:03
Hopefully, the moron that stole your tank will blow himself up with the next batch of crystal meth he cooks! Maybe some of the chemicals he's putting in that bottle will spill all over him & cause serious problems. I was a druggie for years, but I never stole to support my habit. I got smart & quit (with some help). Sorry for the loss of your tank. People put them out on the side of the road here all the time. Nobody's cooking a lot of meth in this area though. S.W.

"Boom Boom, out go the lights!" (Boom Boom, out go the lights, Pat Travers Band, Boom Boom, (out go the lights) LP)
Parent - - By rick harnish (***) Date 06-18-2008 23:00
Good job on the quitting, brother! Im sure that dont come easy
Parent - By jrw159 (*****) Date 06-18-2008 23:53
No, it does not come easy.

jrw159
Parent - - By sbcmweb (****) Date 06-19-2008 01:17
Well...I quit the bad stuff anyways. I put up a couple posts regarding that :-) Gotta watch myself with everything these days. I'm doing alright though. No complaints from me these days!  S.W.

"Come on, prick! We're not finished yet! Come on!!" (Buddy Repperton, Christine)
Parent - - By rick harnish (***) Date 06-19-2008 03:17
Carry on! By the way, bought a new tank, filled two, and they are locked in the trailer! Worried a bit about the battery, as I put it back at the same spot. But I am leaving for work this weekend! Hopefully, everything will stay intact! This seems like an isolated incident, I just freaked! Cant stand the thought of someone molesting my hard earned crap!
Parent - By jrw159 (*****) Date 06-19-2008 16:29
Glad your back on track.

Good luck,
jrw159
Parent - - By Sourdough (****) Date 06-19-2008 16:40
Last year I lost 3 mathey beveling machines, 2 grinders, a propane bottle, a socket set, a handyman jack, and my pancake hood to thieving bastards in Rawlins, Wy

So far this year I have lost 200 ft of lead and 2 grinders to thieving bastards at walmart, (broad daylight), in Rifle, co
Parent - - By jrw159 (*****) Date 06-19-2008 16:50
I am very familiar with the issue at the Rifle, CO wal-mart. Dang near got put in jail for beating the crap out of some punk a** tweaked out meth head. Caught him trying to steal the jack and spare tire from the bed of my truck. And like you, this was early morning daylight hours, 7:30 A.M.  He had the jack out and was going for the spare when I came up on him and offered him the handle to said jack. He did not want it, but I gave it to him anyways. He got cuffed and stuffed and I filled out a report and drove away non the worse for the experiance.

jrw159
Parent - - By sbcmweb (****) Date 06-19-2008 21:26
Sounds like the cops ought to set up surveillance there. Doubt they really care though. Good thing that piece of crap didn't decide to press charges against you for cracking his a**. Here in Michigan, the criminal stands a better chance getting something out of you if you beat him down to protect your stuff. Here, I'm sorry to say, the pigs probably would have hauled you to jail if you had laid a hand on him. Of course, all kinds of witnesses seem to come forward when you decked some joker trying to steal your stuff, but those same individuals wouldn't do crap if they saw him taking your property. You can bet on that.

Like I said in the post before, those guys were in my apartment all night stealing my stuff & even the dude upstairs (who happened to be a security guard & left to go into work WHILE they were there) "didn't see anything". The cops asked around three different buildings too. What really sucked is that the cop who responded treated ME like a criminal & insinuated that it was all MY fault that I got ripped off. PIG! I was pretty cool with that guy upstairs before that happened. After I got ripped off, he wouldn't even talk to me anymore. He like avoided me when he saw me. Suspicious as hell, if you ask me. I don't think he was in on it, but I believe before God as my witness, that he saw the guys that were doing it & did nothing. He said he was some big government security guy. Bulls**t, he didn't do anything to prevent a blatant crime he saw being perpetrated. I bet my entire farm on the fact he did. Sad. Oops, there I go.... S.W.
Parent - - By jrw159 (*****) Date 06-20-2008 14:19 Edited 06-20-2008 14:22
He tried to get them to charge me, but I have been through this before. I know the ins and outs of avoiding an assault charge while still getting a point across. I left no open wounds or visable marks, and it boiled down to defending myself an detaining him until law enforcement arrived. I know full well about worthless cops that are only good for filling out a report to submitt to your insurance company, as well as people who stand right there and see nothing. This situation worked out perfect, as it was pretty quiet at the time, and this punk had a record a mile long including home invasion, burglury, assualt of the elderly, asault on an officer, and the list went on and on, so no sympathy from the cops. I believe this revoked his parole and put him back in the pen.

Street justice and legal justice, he got his a** whipped and went back to jail all in one shot. LOL

I truly hope I never have this experiance again though, because even though it felt good to put the jack handle to his ribs and the back of his knees, It could have been worse. Now I lock everything up that I want to keep.

jrw159

EDIT: BTW a little of thier own practice was used against him as well, DENY, DENY, DENY. I did only what I had to do to defend myself and my propety. And I fear no repercussions from posting this. I think they knew full well what happened, and if they don't, to he** with em!

Parent - By rick harnish (***) Date 06-20-2008 14:42
That, my friend, was a beautiful story. JUSTICE SERVED!
Parent - - By sbcmweb (****) Date 06-21-2008 01:48 Edited 06-21-2008 01:52
You got lucky on that one. :-)  Texas is a little different than here. I don't know if I could have touched him for simple theft, here in Michigan. Especially if he were to have dropped the property & fled. Not unless he actually posed a real serious threat. That's just ME though. I applaud & respect you for doing what you did. A lot of people wouldn't have. When I first got my CCW in Nevada, the instructor (veteran NY cop) went on & on about how easy it was to get sued, even if you were totally in the right. (he had been sued 5 times) Not to mention prosecuted. Nevada law requires an absolute extreme circumstance before serious physical or deadly force will be justified in a self defense case. Michigan's even worse. most Liberal states are. (No offense to any Liberals out there! :-))My Martial Arts instructor always said pretty much the same. You better be really sure before you cut someone or seriously injure them. Even if you're absolutely in the right, you will, most likely, be sued by surviving relatives, or the "victim" himself if left alive.

I have been in a couple situations where I came really close, actually had my hand on my gun. I knew if I pulled it, I would have used it. Without doubt. I used to always carry a knife, but same deal there. I knew if an assailant out sized me, I was going to cut him, rather than wait to see if I could stop him "fair" first. It's a very fine line to walk when defending yourself, or even protecting your property. The law will actually penalize you for knowing a Martial Art & hurting some one with it. True fact. My instructor trained law enforcement officers for defense against edged weapons in several states for over a decade & spoke from a great deal of experience with cops when he told me this. The law will expect you to "control & defuse" the situation WITHOUT excessive force...BECAUSE YOU ARE TRAINED TO DEFEND YOURSELF!!!! They expect you to respond to a level three threat with level one or two restraint, or physical immobilization. The hell with that!! I'm not going to wait for it to go that far if I truly feel threatened. Bruce Lee said the way of the intercepting fist (Jeet Kune Do) is literally to stop the attack with an attack of your own, before the assailant can effectively complete their attack. That essentially means, you may actually be the one "throwing the first punch". It's sobering to think about how quickly your life can change over a small incident escalating to use of force to protect yourself, or your property.

Of course, this situation you faced, is much less extreme (in the case of he didn't come at you with a weapon like a gun, etc.) and a little different, but I don't trust law enforcement, or the "justice" system. Read too many real life cases of burglars & armed robbers successfully suing in a civil trial for damages related to their victim defending themselves. It's a total crock, but that's the system we have. Far more likely to protect the perpetrator than the victim. We have the Mickey Shermans & Robert Schapiro's to thank, in part for that. Here I go on another rant. Just hate to see the system persecute the individuals it was supposed to be designed to protect! I'm always one to look at it from the worst case scenario & fear the worst for myself, because of technicality or outright ignorance.

I respect you for what you did, John. I'm glad you got in your licks & didn't get sweat by the pigs for it! Really. :-) S.W.
Parent - - By rick harnish (***) Date 06-21-2008 02:22
God, I love Texas.
Parent - By sbcmweb (****) Date 06-21-2008 02:25
:-)
Parent - By jrw159 (*****) Date 06-21-2008 02:32
GOD BLESSED TEXAS!!!!!

jrw159
Parent - - By jrw159 (*****) Date 06-21-2008 02:35
I did not get lucky. I learned how to deal with the situation from trial and error.  :-) :-)

jrw159

BTW: You speak the truth.IMHO

My neighbor caught someone breaking into our cars........ story pending.
Parent - - By sbcmweb (****) Date 06-21-2008 03:23
Yeah, I guess I could have phrased it a little different. You're not a stupid person, John & I don't think you would do something foolish like risk arrest (if you didn't know what you were doing anyways :-)) I take it you did do the jump first method & learned from it? :-)  Whole different ball game in a Liberal state like this. There's no provision for using force of any kind to protect property. Not to my knowledge. I get really pissed off over the ignorance of people talking about just hauling off & hitting someone, or "blasting" someone that broke in their house, ect. One double edged benefit I got from training in self defense with a professional involved in the training of law enforcement officers is that of legal ramifications & consequences. He drilled it into our heads that for every action, a legal or civil one is sure to follow. He had us do a lot of training with live blades, real firearms & the like. NOT to make us some ignorant bad ass, but to show the gravity of a situation when you attempt a live disarm, edged weapon combat or rush attack, etc, that you WILL get cut. YOU WILL bleed. It's for real. You CANNOT take it back. I learned more about the psychological aspect of self defense & active/reactive awareness than I ever learned about fighting.

It's kinda like the NRA's Armed Citizen column in Rifleman. (Nothing against them!) They talk about how "everyday" joes fend off criminals with their guns, etc, but say nothing about the legality & civil suits, all too sure to follow. One even "right" act against some deadbeat that gets sympathy from a jury or judge can send that average guy's life into a turmoil of legal hell, hiring legal defense, court appearances, costs etc. I always find myself thinking everything thru, maybe even a little too much sometime. On a couple occasions, as I mentioned with the gun, I'm REALLY glad I did. I would probably be sitting in prison right now if I had not. I got a bad temper though, part of the reason I do not carry one anymore. Just don't want to end up in a split second deal & ruin my life. Can't say that when I travel that good 'ol 1911 doesn't go with me :-).

I'm glad you beat that guy's a**. :-) He deserved it. Did he learn from it? Most likely not, but I bet you felt real good to see them put the bracelets on him & take him away. Good stuff, John. S.W.
Parent - - By DaveBoyer (*****) Date 06-21-2008 04:10
Steve, I have been waiting to get a carry permit untill I can also get a permit to shoot people who deserve to be shot :-) I guess it will be a long wait.
Parent - By sbcmweb (****) Date 06-21-2008 04:14
Yeah, the government likes to keep them alive though. Keeps the prisons full & operational :-) Gives the lawmakers a reason to stay in office!  S.W.
Parent - - By jrw159 (*****) Date 06-23-2008 17:16
S.W.
  No worries, I knew what you meant. I have had to learn how to beat both the "crooks" and the "crooked" at thier own games. Sadly enough, with the exception of but a few, the majority of law enforcment personnel that I have had the misfortune of dealing with, have been at best, likened to recently rejected applicants to the "Reno Sheriffs Dept." (RENO 911) NO JOKE!!!!

Your words, and others as well, are golden. When it comes to the perception of someone who can defend themselves. If you are a known BAMF, through proven and documented procedures, be it with a firearm, or martial arts, be carefull. As for me, I am just a lucky one punch wonder who could not hit the broad side of a barn with a 12 guage loaded with light bird shot loads at two paces. Thats my story and I am sticking to it.  LOL :-)

A pleasure as always,
jrw159
Parent - - By johnnyh (***) Date 06-23-2008 17:31
The grand jury is supposed whether this guy faces charges today.  This happened about 10 miles from my house and has been been a daily news story ever since.  The 911 dispatcher told him not to go outside and do it but you can hear the gunshots on the audio.  CRAZY....

http://www.chron.com/disp/story.mpl/ap/tx/5841553.html
Parent - - By jrw159 (*****) Date 06-23-2008 18:42
I guess this is the first I have heard of this incident. This appears to be unjustified by the reports of the individuals being shot in the back.

Shotgun blast to the face, possible self defense.
Shotgun blast to the back, bad news.

If you are going to shoot an intruder, shoot them while they are facing you and shoot them dead, no exceptions. Dead men tell NO LIES!!

jrw159
Parent - - By johnnyh (***) Date 06-23-2008 18:56
That just goes to show how leniant Texas is.  He wasnt even protecting his own house....it was his neighbors!!  So it has been 8 months and he hasnt been indicted yet.  Here is the full audio of the call.  If this was anywhere else I am sure he would be facing murder charges.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_7jqLie6-Y0
Parent - - By jrw159 (*****) Date 06-23-2008 20:37
Well I have to say that if the reports are accurate and these two men were indeed shot in the back, this shooting was unjustifyable. I am 100% on board with Texas gun laws, but one must fully understand them. You can not just blast someone in the back. But if I can get that chump to face me for one split second, I am quite positive that I would be in fear for my life and BOOM, your dead!! If I am in fear of my life beng taken, look out partner, it is ON!

I feel that even in the great state of Texas, this gentleman is in trouble, and from the sounds of it, rightly so. Even by Texas standards this one is way out of line. IMHO

I would possibly feel differant if they had not been shot in the BACK.

jrw159
Parent - - By sbcmweb (****) Date 06-23-2008 22:08
It looks to me as if he knew what he was doing when he went outside. 100% unjustifiable. No exceptions. No brains, obviously. What more can I say? It's irresponsible crap like that that continues to make legally using deadly force to legitimately defend yourself increasingly more difficult. No wonder screaming, gun hating liberals eat this stuff up. Can you blame them?? S.W.

"No, I'm gonna put him in jail till the jail rots. Then, I'm gonna move him to another jail..." (Doc Hudson referring to Lightning McQueen, Cars)
Parent - - By jrw159 (*****) Date 06-24-2008 00:45
Marshall Law should be put into effect. I PROMISE you that if everyone had a gun, rather than just the criminals and the ones to scared to use them, the crime rate would plummet. If that tweaked out bastard knew for a fact that the old lady he was going to rob most likely has a gun and will get away with shooting him in the face for robbing her, he/she will be a lot less likely to try it. Sam Colt made us all equal, but our government does not like it, and to them I say, "You will have to pry my weapon from my COLD DEAD HAND!!!!"

I will not shoot someone in the back for robbing me, only because you will not have the chance to turn and run!!! I will pin you down and make sure you are held accountable for your actions. If you fight me, I will kill you, with my bare hands if neccessary.

The only people scared of "us" owning guns are the criminals who use them on us and the ignorant pr*cks who do not see what is really happening.

BTW If you give me 7 minutes without responding on scene to my 911 call, someone is going down, and I will walk free. I will not shoot a felon in the back, but I will shoot one right in the chest in self defense while in fear for my life. In the world we live in now, I AM SCARED!!! This will result in a funeral.  :-) :-)

It is too bad that Mr. Horn was not smart enough to do it the right way.

RENO 911

Kill em all and let GOD sort em out!!!

I heard something about a second ammendment, what is that?

jrw159
Parent - - By rick harnish (***) Date 06-24-2008 01:23
I will not shoot someone in the back for robbing me, only because they will not get the chance to turn and run. John, I like you better every post!
Parent - - By jrw159 (*****) Date 06-24-2008 01:53 Edited 06-24-2008 02:09
:-)

It is just me and what I am. THANKS!!

Story of my neighbor and I catching two young punks breaking into our cars at 2:30 AM.

I wake up to my partner next door yelling at the top of his lungs for me to "GET YOUR ASS OUT HERE AND CALL THE LAW!!!" I come out the door with the phone in one hand and my pistol in the other to find him riding some young punk in a chock hold. He has it in tight for a little guy (his nick name on the rigs was Skeletor) and the suspect is going out. The other one is loose and running around the backside of my truck. He throws the screwdriver that they were using at my partner and I confronted him. He turned and headed out, and I turned my attention to the detained suspect. We detained him until the law arrived, with no trouble. However we were not happy that he would not tell us who his buddy was.

Had my wife not already have called the police, we might have kept that real quiet, and hauled him back to the garage, laid down the plastic, and started working on him with welpers and vise grips until he gave up his partner. Then we go find him, and haul them both out to the country and get our moneys worth out of thier hide. LEAVE them there, and deny, deny, deny. Nobody dies, but somebody learns something that they will NEVER forget. :-)

jrw159

EDIT: I know this is harsh, but so is home invasion, robbery, rape and murder. Life is tough and it will be tough to take mine!!!!!!
EDIT 2: If that punk with the screwdriver had not thrown it at my partner, but turned to face me with it, he would be a dead man, since I would be in fear of my life being taken by a stabwound from a screwdriver as the suspect confronted me and ignored my commands to stop. If you do not beleive me,..... ask him.
Parent - - By rick harnish (***) Date 06-24-2008 02:20
if i am in your vicinity and crap breaks out, understand perfectly that I am on your side! LOL! Love the way you think! Too bad the dumbs**t that shot them two in the back didnt have a partial clue! Heres to you!
Parent - By jrw159 (*****) Date 06-24-2008 02:35
As long as you do not have my property or life in your hands or are helping the one who does, you are on my side, and I will expect you to act as such as I will. We will survive!!!! LOL :-)

GOD BLESS AMERICA!! AND THE AMERICANS THAT MAKE IT!!!!!

John R. West :-)
Parent - By sbcmweb (****) Date 06-24-2008 03:11
Man, life is way too dull around here. You guys have all the fun! :-). No, seriously, I hope I never, ever have to confront anyone in a situation like that. Glad it worked out the way it did. Nobody died. S.W.
Parent - - By rick harnish (***) Date 06-24-2008 01:15 Edited 06-24-2008 01:26
This dumb *ss is probably doomed. In the back? Texas does have standards of acceptable conduct. Common sense. This  aint the Old West, and I am sure they would have had problems with this, too. Steve is right. A man cant go around acting like a gangster simply because he has a gun on him. The gun, last resort before I believe I am about to be seriously damaged. Not when the man is trying to evacuate the premises. Certainly. But I sure love the "wont get the chance to turn around" thing! Sweet call!
Parent - By johnnyh (***) Date 06-24-2008 14:21
I think the fact that he hasnt been charged has something to do that the guys he shot were illegals.  If this would have been some local kids, I would have to think the charges would have been filed by now.  Personally, I havent applied for a concealed handgun permit because I dont want to shoot someone unless my life or someones is threatened.  I have been threatened before but I have never been in fear of losing my life.   I would have trouble living with myself if I killed someone for trying to steal my car or a propane bottle.  I do have strategically placed baseball bats everywhere though. Hopefully they will be enough but who knows?!?!?!
Parent - - By CWI555 (*****) Date 06-30-2008 11:18
In my experience, staring down a .45 hole will stop their action dead in it's tracks. I believe deadly force can usually be avoided, but should it come to it, I've no problem with it. Even in the old west shooting someone in the back was an act of cowardice.

Regards,
Gerald Newell
Parent - - By DaveBoyer (*****) Date 07-01-2008 05:01
   While the neighbor was in no personal danger when He shot the guys fleeing the scene of Thier crime, getting shot while robbing a home is an ocupational hazard thieves face. They broke into that home of thier own free will. They didn't stop when the guy with the shotgun told them to, Thier own free will. He shot them, His own free will.

   I do not believe this guy acted out of cowardice, I believe He was a pissed off guy acting out of vengance. That doesn't make it legal.
Parent - - By hogan (****) Date 07-01-2008 14:45
i heard he was just cleared of charges.
Parent - By CWI555 (*****) Date 07-01-2008 15:11
Cleared or not, I don't agree with shooting someone in the back.
Parent - By mountainman (***) Date 07-02-2008 16:42
that's why i carry nunchucks and ninja stars, i'm not good with them yet. but with the amount of thieving scum out there i should get in plenty of practice.
Parent - By Sourdough (****) Date 06-24-2008 04:54
shooting someone that is in the commission of a felony against you is only a manslaughter charge. With the right circumstances, and a jury of your peers, you will get probation........I'm just sayin'

We need to stand up, and put a whoopin on folks that steal our livelyhood.

Problem with these thieving bastards is that it seems you can never catch them. Most times that they strike, they are just cruizing around waiting for an easy score, a crime of convenience.

When my leads were stolen, I felt like someone had slapped my wife right in front of me, but there was a pane of bullet proof glass in between us.

I thought to myself that I might kill the person who did this, (not only to me), but to my family.

500 bucks for new leads, and you know damn well that the scrap price was an eighth of that at the scrapyard!
Parent - - By sbcmweb (****) Date 06-23-2008 17:35
As always, you could have not said it better, John! :-) I sometimes feel the need to say something, because so many other people just have no clue. They really don't. Sadly to say, many are trained "fighters" themselves. They just don't really think about things. They are the types that end up in constant trouble with law enforcement, or end up dead at the hands of people they should have been well aware of & deemed dangerous. I have always gravitated to the method of "Attack by Drawing" as well as avoidance of situations all together above all other methods. I'm not a BAMF, nor a confrontational person. I do though, know how to defend myself & would much rather have my attacker (as well as law enforcement) view me as a "defenseless victim" rather than a overconfident "Karate expert".

It's sad as well, that law enforcement in general, does not have a more balanced & realistic view when it comes to this. It puts a lot of competent & able individuals in a position of wondering deep down, if involving themselves in a serious case of self defense, or protecting the life of another individual is really worth it. Especially in a situation where "doing the right thing" could land you in jail, or on the receiving end of a brutal civil suit that could destroy your reputation & leave you financially destitute. The media is ruthless as well & could easily paint you as a merciless criminal, or vigilante, ruining any chance of ever overcoming the incident locally. I'm extremely lucky that I have never been in a real bad situation. I hope I never am either. I believe awareness is one of the best skills you can acquire. playing "dumb" is always a good one too! :-) Take care as well. S.W.
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