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Up Topic Welders and Inspectors / Welding Equipment Classifieds / standing behind items you sell
- - By undercut79 Date 06-25-2008 03:17
Bills welder repair came very highly recommended from this website so I felt very comfortable purchasing the 1982 SA200 they had listed on their website . I drove 450 miles to try out this machine and as far as I could tell it was a very sound welder for the $1800 they were asking. After purchasing this machine I was given an invoice of the work they had done to it while in their possession which included head gasket and valve work and a few other things. Unfortunately for me now that I have put about 8 hours on it and it either has major ring problems or it has cracked a piston . I notified them immediately and suprisingly to me  their reply was that unknowingly I had purchased the machine from an individual and not from them at all (even though they gladly took my credit card as payment ). The next thing they told me was that they would only warranty the work listed on the invoice as for anything else I was on my own and it was not their machine therefore not their problem .  So even though I still believe they do beautiful work buyers beware of items purchased from them . Regretfully Undercut79 
Parent - By uphill (***) Date 06-25-2008 10:36
I have never bought anything from Bills but I do have a lot of experiance as a mechanic. Buying used equipment that has been repaired to make affordable enough to take a chance on is a real crap shoot. Pistons tops can look fine, cyl walls not being scored or scorched can leave anyone to believe they are ok enough for a another go. These Continental engines are slow turning with low compression and can last forever with proper care. Who knows if the old club has been overheated, not serviced correctly or has stuck oil rings.  Lets face it $1800 is a lot of money to most people but did you expect a new machine for 20cents on the dollar?
Sorry about your troubles I know how much $$ it costs to completely overhaul the engine and the problems of buying anything that performs below expectations. Sometimes you have to make a big financial decision and buy new figuring that repairs and payments are a way of life.
Best of luck
Uphill
Parent - - By sbcmweb (****) Date 06-25-2008 12:25
Hi. That's a bum deal. I would venture to say that what the situation is here, is that Bill's sold it as a consignment. They did do some work on it, but, from what I gather, it belonged to a customer they were selling it for. Even though they accepted payment for the machine, it most likely belonged to a customer & they were receiving a commission for selling it. As was mentioned in the other post, it's a crapshoot ANYTIME you buy something used. Especially AS IS. I sell used equipment for a living & know how that goes. That's why I rarely, if ever, take consignments. You never know what you're getting & can seem & even feel a little responsible if it takes a dump like in your case. Principally, so I don't end up in a jam like this. I think from what I have dealt with them, that they are people of integrity. If they sell a machine that has had some work done on it, it would be difficult to warantee the entire machine without seriously increasing the price to cover any problems that could arise.

I seriously doubt anyone was aware of the problem & covered it up. That's just the chance you take when you buy used equipment. I wish you the best in finding a reasonably priced solution to your problems. :-) Good luck! S.W.
Parent - - By KSellon (****) Date 07-03-2008 16:37
Here is a link to the for sale post____ from 6/18

http://www.aws.org/cgi-bin/mwf/topic_show.pl?tid=16396
Parent - By sbcmweb (****) Date 07-03-2008 18:00
Just like I said, Kaye. It wasn't your machine & you cannot be held responsible for internal problems you knew nothing about. You sold it very reasonable & if you were to have made the addition of a performance guarantee, the price would have considerably increased due to the financial risk you would have exposed yourself to. I'll vouch for you any day of the week, Kaye. You guys aren't the type to stick it to someone. It's obvious to anyone how much pride you take in what you do. Used stuff's always a mixed bag. You never know. Same goes for a resaler like you & I. If we buy something, we always have to factor a major repair into it when we make an offer or purchase a machine. If it pukes on us after we buy it, we are stuck either making the repair, or junking it.

Like I said, I myself, along with just about everyone else here will testify to your integrity. :-) S.W.
Parent - - By jrw159 (*****) Date 06-25-2008 15:58
undercut79,
  I am sorry to hear about the trouble with your welding machine. I have never personally done buisiness with "Bill's" but I will say that when one is buying a used machine at a low price it is always buyer beware with "anybody" one deals with. This is a chance you take with a machine as you have described. There are too many unknowns for one to consider.

If there was a problem with or resulting from thier work then that would be one thing, and from what I know, they would jump all over it to make it right.

However, if there is a problem that was unforseeable and did not result from them or thier repairs, that, my friend, is the risk one takes when buying a used machine for bottom dollar, from anybody.

Also you must consider that, as you stated, you were able to "try before you buy".

Best of luck,
jrw159
Parent - By old school pipe (**) Date 06-25-2008 16:25
I have a complete engine F-163 with about 6 months on an over haul pulled for yanmar conversion sorry about your problem but I know that it was certainly un intentional on K's part they are fine peeps I will sell you this engine foe 700.00 if intrested just trying to help out
Parent - - By Jenn (***) Date 06-25-2008 16:26
Undercut,

Same as these guys said, you take a chance when you buy used equipment. Bill's has an awesome reputation, but this is a consignment item.

Just as with any engine, if it had recent work that included head gasket work, and valve work, and I could not afford for it not to be running, I would have been leary myself - as these may be signs of something major about to happen....

I had something similar happen to me with my Jeep I recently bought. Next time I know to be leary of "recently rebuilt". After a few weeks of driving it I heard a "miss" in my engine, did a compression check, and have a cylendar with no compression on a supposedly just rebuilt engine, heh.... So I'll be tearing it down myself and rebuilding it, when I can afford to. Thank god it's not my ONLY car. Amazingly that "miss" wasn't apparent when I test drove it, I surely would have heard it. I'll know better next time, and I suppose you will too.

Just don't hold it against Bill's they have a good reputation for a reason. Years and years of good service to many people.

Sorry for your frustration
Jenn
Parent - - By undercut79 Date 06-25-2008 22:39
I am not trying to smear Bill's good name at all I am just stating what happened and how it was handled , only to let others know what I was unaware of when purchasing this machine. Don't mean any harm just trying to be informative...
Parent - By sbcmweb (****) Date 06-25-2008 23:47
I understand. On the occasions I sell an item like that, I make the customer FULLY aware that I'm not offering any kind of guarantee on the item. Especially on a consignment. Especially on an inexpensive engine drive! I don't know exactly what they said to you, but it's nice when a resaler makes you aware of everything, right up front. Makes life a little easier if something like this happens. I didn't think you came across that way , I can understand how you feel. Believe me, I've been there. You picked the machine up for reasonable, so putting an engine in it would give you a real good machine for a long time most likely.

There's some good resources on the site here & you could probably pick up an engine, or get it fixed pretty reasonable. I wish I had something you could use, but I don't deal with engine drive machines & mostly for this reason right here. Usually when an engine drive takes a puke, it's a big one. Best of luck!

Try Rann weld supply in Ill. (618) 273-2345. Some good guys there, may have a good used engine. S.W.
Parent - - By raftergwelding (*****) Date 06-26-2008 00:41
used is used as is where is just like it sits sorry to hear of your troubles but it aint Kayes fault the last owner dont take care of his equipment
Parent - - By spgtti (**) Date 06-27-2008 00:40
$1800 is not a cheap machine. I would expect it to go more than 8 hours before it blew, especially after having the head off and valves checked by a reputable shop. Anyone would hope for more than a response of "not our problem" when your sitting in a test shop trying for a job and looking at more downtime and another $1500 dollar bill. I see a shaft on this one.
Parent - - By raftergwelding (*****) Date 06-27-2008 00:46
1800 right now is damn cheap for a running welding machine and dont forget he did try it out before he welded with it and you cant tell the rings are gonna go just by pulling the head off to replace the gasket nobody is getting the shaft in this deal but kaye from all the bad mouthing she is getting no worries from here she has never steered me wrong
Parent - - By spgtti (**) Date 06-27-2008 01:33
   No reason to get offended, everyone has a right to call it as you see it. I've known Undercut for a couple years now, and know him to be an outstanding person. I've also personally pulled 2 SA's out of fields for less than $700 that lasted considerably longer than that. True it's a gamble buying anything used, but any one of us would like to get a response that was better than the one he told me about.
Parent - - By southerngray (**) Date 06-27-2008 04:50
Sir if you ever buy another used machine let it warm up and ground it to some metal crank it wide open and stick a rod to it and hold it 'til it melt's down and do it again and again and then burn some rod's at the normal setting if it is going to blow, break the arc or lose heat then that would be the owner's problem not your's nor Kaye's   I am certainly not an authority on used machine's but I have tried them our like that. I wish you the best  Jimmy
Parent - By MetalFinagler (*) Date 06-27-2008 05:53
To me it sounds like the only problem (besides the broken machine) was that it was not made clear at the time of purchase that it was on consignment. A lesson learned on both sides.

best of luck, finagler
Parent - By michaelb (**) Date 06-28-2008 17:53
i just got 1700 for a wreck machine, so 1800 is a heck of deal. when buying used you have to expect stuff like this when u buy...  i do... kaye is a great help to each and every one of us. (your a  liar if you say she hasnt).
Parent - - By KSellon (****) Date 07-03-2008 16:45
I have attached the invoice Mr Curler received upon purchase of the machine. I have also linked the listing from the for sale forum. Mr Curler welded with the machine inside our shop for 1/2 hour. The machine did not smoke or leak. If that had been the case I could have doubled the money by just parting it out for the customer.

Our shop stands behind all work we perform. Sad to say I am now telling customers to sell it on their own--I will no longer assist anyone in selling their parts or equipment. Like I have always said I am a repair tech not a salesman. My skin is not thick enough to deal with the trouble.
Parent - - By jrw159 (*****) Date 07-03-2008 17:04
K,
  Relax, you and your reputation are GOLDEN IMHO! This gentleman bought a USED machine at a CHEAP price and unfortunatly, through NO fault of yours, it took a crap on him.

This happens! Cut and dry!

This is the risk one takes when buying equipment that is used and cheap, it may last for another ten years or take a dump in ten minutes. The only way to prevent this is to SPEND SOME MONEY for someone such as your company to completly go through the machine or purchase one that has been rebuilt and comes with some sort of warranty.

Sad to say that some people only see the low price and jump right in. NOT YOUR FAULT!!

So again I say, relax. Please do not let one or a couple of unwise buyers be responsible for MANY others loosing out on your VALUABLE and PRICELESS help and assistance. :-)

I truly feel sorry for this gentleman having troubles, even if they are troubles that he bought and should have had the common sense to know were possible.

Keep your chin up!
John
Parent - By Jenn (***) Date 07-03-2008 17:40
EXACTLY JOHN!!!!

That's the chance you take when you get used stuff, I full well knew the same thing was possible when I bought my Jeep I spoke of. I made the choice to buy it anyway. Still not sad I bought it, I rather love it. Just have to give it some TLC. It's still worth what I paid for it, even without the engine running right, so I still feel like I made out like a bandit!! If I fix it, I could sell it for almost double what I paid for it. He knew what he was buying, and he knew it was on consignment.

Some people expect to hold someone else accountable for things that go wrong in life, when in actuality, it's just that things go wrong and it's nobody's fault.

We all know you do everything you can for people Kaye, even total strangers. And it's not all about the money for you, that's very clear. You're a respectable lady.

Jenn
Parent - By sbcmweb (****) Date 07-03-2008 20:19
I hear you on no consignments. They are nothing but trouble & I know for a fact. Fortunately, I have never had something really bad happen with a machine I sold to a customer, but a lot of buyers on sites like ebay & the like will feed you to the wolves by trashing you, even if you did everything you could to avoid an issue. I had to go to lengths to create a disclaimer to protect myself against some who try to go overboard with a matter. Ebay's not a great place to sell anymore anyways.

Too bad that dude's machine puked. I've spent thousands on lots of equipment, only to find out most of it's junk. That's the biz. That's just the way it is. I know you have probably been there too.

S.W.

"I'll buy that for a dollar! ( TV Commercial On Robocop)
Parent - By Billyjoe (***) Date 07-07-2008 04:55
1800 is a cheap machine , you pay for what you get
Parent - - By KSellon (****) Date 07-03-2008 16:33
Here is the listing for the machine you purchased: http://www.aws.org/cgi-bin/mwf/topic_show.pl?tid=16396.

At the top of our for sale page it clearly states that none of the equipment listed belongs to us. http://billswelderrepair.com/Pre-Owned_Equip.html

Under my advisement you came to our shop and welded with the machine, etc prior to purchase. It did not smoke. We stand behind and warranty all our work. I can not be held responsible for problems that occur on used equipment after it leaves my shop. A completely overhauled machine that is covered by warranty for 1 year runs on average $6500. Here is the invoice you received upon purchase of the machine. Bill even stopped what he was doing when you arrived so that he could install a remote toggle and pigtail for you-- You will see the invoice does not reflect any additional labor for that service.
Parent - - By snuffman (***) Date 07-03-2008 18:37
I dont think you have to defend yourself here Kaye. He new what he was getting into when he done it and now wants to blame you. Sad to say theres alot of idiots out there like that. You stated first off when you posted it here forsale that it wasnt yours but you made some repairs. It wasnt a full recondition of yours. So basically what Im saying is he is not bluffing no one here and if anyone anywhere else bad mouths you I got your back as do 99% of the people at AWS. Your straight to the point, clear cut and no what your talking about, willing to help anytime any way possible. When if ever you may not no your honest and say you dont. This world and industry needs more people like you. I wouldnt worry about him. Dummies always travel together so hes just keeping more idiots away from you telling his friends to stay away from you.
Parent - By pypLynr (***) Date 07-03-2008 19:18
Hey undercut, a buddy will be glad as hell to give you your money back on your bad luck, RIGHT NOW!!! I would be careful on this forum, you might need a job or a part from one of us 'good ole boys' (and girls Kaye) .If you wanted a machine to go and go like the Energizer bunny - you should have went NEW!!! I bought a 200 that was in pieces and a box for $1000 and I put it back together myself. A gamble IS A GAMBLE!!! It served me well and now it is serving a gentleman in NM .The table could have been turned though.I could have lost my tail on my grand for it if the gen was bad or the motor was locked. Sometimes people forget about LADY LUCK and how she comes and goes.
Parent - - By Sberry (***) Date 07-09-2008 14:56
Are we guessing that it has internal problems or has a test been done on it? Not many engines wear out in 8 hours. My first instinct is to run a comp test followed by a leakage test if needed.
Parent - By Cactusthewelder (*****) Date 07-09-2008 18:47
Down where im at you could of sold that machine for $1800.00 with a blown motor ! Machines are like gold these days. For $1800 what did he expect ? A new one ? May be he should try the Lincoln website next purchase and get a warranty. Just my opinion

Cactus
Up Topic Welders and Inspectors / Welding Equipment Classifieds / standing behind items you sell

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