Did you choose welding instead of college?

Date 07-18-2008 16:18

I did. Both of my Parents along with all of their extended families are in the education field. They (my family) ran the school district in Houston where I went to school. Several of them have a Phd. I chose the Union Ironworkers Program. Even though it was college accredited, I was all but disowned over it all. I WAS GOING TO BE A BLUE COLLAR WORKER ! I went through three years in the trade school working in the field and school at night. I seemed to be good at welding so that is the area I leaned towards. I was 18 then. Here i am 47 and making more than all thier Phd's and I say "I told you so" Every chance I get. I have been Running my own truck for close to 20 years now. I recently was doing a job in the Bryan/College Station area. One night while I was there, I was in a local establishment. I got to talking with a couple of guys trying to get their degrees at A&M. I ask them what their salary expectations where when the finished shcool. They told me that they where SURE they would be in the $60,000.00 range with thier high powered degree. I just laughed. Here I sat with a Trade that paid me $197,000.00 Last year.

Cactus

By Metarinka (****)

Date 07-18-2008 18:03

Gave you a big long post Ross!
I'm very adamant about this subject coming from an academic family and living in Ann Arbor home of the University of Michigan, it was expected that we goto such a school and earn an academic degree.

By mountainman (***)

Date 07-18-2008 19:21

Metarinka, could you expand on your opinion some more?

JJ

By Metarinka (****)

Date 07-18-2008 20:37

More or less I've first hand experienced this. Coming from a white collar college town I was expected to goto a 4 year institution and our curriculum was run much more like a prep school than a public school. By my senior year they had scrapped the last shop class in lieu of more classroom (the district at the time having horribly over crowded highschools).

A lot of focus on "core" subjects etc not much attention paid to anything close to blue collar save for the auto shop they had. on a whim more or less I took a welding class at my local community college which I would later find out has one of the best welding programs in the nation. I stuck with welding while I'll my friends and classmates either went to a four year school or where one of the "lost" suburbanites where college wasn't right for them and dropped out a lot of them are still in a transient period, smart people who just don't fit in an academic program but continue to kid their parents or themselves while taking a few credits each semester.

I was lucky my Parents didn't pressure me about welding especially after I proved the job potential to them and they saw I enjoyed it.

The big thing that's been clear to me is the sort of hidden class of the blue collar trades. Even though my school was located in Ann Arbor I can only recount maybe 2 or 3 students from ann arbor or who went through the school system, everyone else came from the rural townships some from 2-3 counties away. Same thing I've experienced now at my new school. The kids who end up getting into the trades are those who were discouraged from academic pursuits in highschool but found the trades AND they are from the rural communities, My guess is that very few people who get into welding are from urban or suburban communities. This is probably due to cultural and experience and that most rural schools still have shop programs at least that's what I've seen in michigan.

All this means that the students who do get into welding are the academically shy types not keen on taking calculus, statistics or technical writing. There's many other skilled trades such as CNC machining, electricans, HVAC, systems automation, robotics etc that are a blend of hands on and book work. In my opinion a lot of people who would be well suited for those programs or careers are being pushed into purely academic degrees. The ones who do get into blue collar degrees are very shy from going on and pursuing more technical degrees or fields. This is all just my personal experience but there's a huge drought of CNC machinists too. I operated a cell of horizontal milling machines after taking a few classes in CNC and manual machining. The modern urban culture just seems to be ignorant of anything that requires you to get your hands dirty even if a CNC machinist has a much higher earning potential than someone with a bachelors in a soft science like philosophy, sociology etc.

Anyways first hand I saw a lot of push from a school district that ignored trades at best, but put a lot of undue pressure on children to goto college. college itself is a good thing but I'm with the author in that it's not for everyone. There's many satisfying careers in skilled trades that many programs are overlooking so one more kid can get pushed into computer science or anthropology drop out half way through and be left in a situation worse off then when they started.
All that being said I am 2 semesters away from my bachelors in welding engineering so I've gone the college route but I've worked my way through school as a welder and decided to get a bachelors degree because I coudln't quench my thirst for knowledge with just an A.A

I think I'm a little different than most because I came from the high academic side but got into welding because it's what I enjoy, many of my friends and teachers where astonished I picked such "simple" work and tout how they want to stay behind a cushy desk away from fire and sparks. OR they say welding engineering is an "easy" degree because I'm not taking calculus 3 and differential equations like a mechanical engineer at UofM would do. Overall people especially those from the academic cultures just kind of look down at skilled trades.

This is purely my experience and opinion. I'm happy of the career path I choose once I graduate and get a few years under my belt I want to go back for a Masters I like learning about metal that much. I still practice my welding technique whenever I get the chance and often weld at my internship for tests etc.

By mountainman (***)

Date 07-18-2008 21:01

thanks for sharing.
JJ

By michaelb (**)

Date 07-18-2008 23:58

went to college for a few months and felt like i wasnt learning anything more than what highschool ag teacher taught so up and away i went to work and got my education from all the old timers who would give me the time of day to learn from them.

By makeithot (***)

Date 07-19-2008 00:52

Ross,
I feel that schools in genral do not give kids enough information on what the trades have to offer, so kids not only do not get the iformation that they need but they are some how told that if you go into the trades you will not be as successful as a university grade what a load of hog wallop. Along with the crap they spew about no winners and loosers it's all going to hell in a hand cart.

By DaveBoyer (*****)

Date 07-19-2008 05:00

High schools pride themselves on the percentage of students who go on to college. The high school I started out in was one of these, and the teachers there did tent to "look down their nose" at students in the VoTec program [that I transfered to]. The only thing better [in their view] than an acedemic student preparing for college was a student who was good in sports, particularly football. It didn't matter if a football star was dumb as a stump and barely passing as an agriculture major.

The VoTec school I went to was entirly different [at that time]. It was a full time school and had it's own acedemic program. There was a limited sports program, and it wasn't a school priority. Many of the students went there to learn a trade or technical field, but the sending schools tended to dump the special ed kids there, as long as they were not good at football.

I was hired as a tool & die maker apprentice because of a recommendation by My machine shop teacher, local industries did recognize the school as a source for experienced entry level employees.

By jon20013 (*****)

Date 07-19-2008 04:13 Edited 07-19-2008 05:31

Ross, this is outstanding news!!!

It's a sad reality that parent's, teacher's and employer's place far, far too much emphasis on college education.

While I'd be the first to shout that advanced learning is a good thing, not a bad thing, sadly, we've forgotten it's the blue collar worker who transformed concepts into reality! Yes, Engineers and degreed people are necessary, but not everyone is cut out for 4 (or more) years of school. Many also have family commitments that largely preclude their ability to attend full time courses.

Can a self-educated, seasoned veteran blue collar worker stand toe-to-toe with a Ph.D? My guess would be they could and while they may not be capable of performing calculations to the nth, they probably have a much greater understanding if a conceptual issue will work... or not.

I applaud AWS for this pending book!

EDIT: I also agree our educational system does little, if anything, to promote trades. The result of this is we are now faced with widespread shortages of skilled labor... wonder why China is thriving and we're going down the financial tubes? This may be some small part of the equation.

By Stephan (***)

Date 07-25-2008 17:29

Dear Jon,

"...Can a self-educated, seasoned veteran blue collar worker stand toe-to-toe with a Ph.D? My guess would be they could..."

My greatest respect for this extraordinary and unselfish statement!

Best to you,
Stephan

By Kix

Date 07-25-2008 19:10

Ofcourse they could stand toe-to-toe with each other. They both need each other to get something done at the end of the day.;-) And if this team (the blue/white team) has a good leader, their is no limit to what they are capable of.

By Stephan (***)

Date 07-28-2008 11:38

Ray,

I have thought a while about what you have posted and finally I came to the conclusion: "Wise Words".

However, please let me come back on this and say two or three words...

You know, we are having a widespread discussion here in Germany or Europe respectively, about the lack of skilled people - skilled welding people as well.

But you know, each time as I am listening to the responsible politicians and all the "smart" Professors etc. who are representing their arguments (of course they should) I can't help myself to come to the impression that they are no more talking about "skill" in the best sense of a tradesman (what a good welder doubtless must be) but they are talking of "Engineers", and or "PhD's" in a way that I must think that they are being the only ones able to "save the world".

That is the reason for me to meanwhile judge the entire discussion as - how should I say? - sanctimonious?

You know we are - still - having a good education system, in particular here in Germany. As I heard several times, other nations are envying us on this. But just one look into the newspaper's job advertisements shows me the reality. Of course there are "skilled" people wanted, but "skilled" in even the sense of having "studied" welding until they have reached their "Graduate Engineer" or even higher their "PhD in Welding".

It is quite ridiculous for me to read that some companies want to hiring welding engineers for activities "normal" good skilled welders - or let me say this in a sense of this discussion "blue collar people" - were certainly twice able to accomplish. And the most ridiculous issue for me is, that they have even hired good skilled "blue collar people" in the past for those activities they are wanting nowadays graduated or "studied" people for. And very often - the exception may prove the rule - "Engineers" and "PhD's" are downright taught by their teachers to hold themselves for somewhat better, hmmm, let me say, a kind of "elite"? Then I ask myself: "What is this a crazy world we are living in meanwhile?". There were times - of course I am talking of the past - but nonetheless, there were times when the skill of a good educated welder was highly appreciated by the responsible persons in the companies and hereby - under assuming they have worked for long enough within one company - these people got their chance to stand toe-to-toe with those people who have received their knowledge by studying at a university.

From even these experiences I mean to say, no, at least at present a blue collar worker will never be able to "physically" stand toe-to-toe with all these highly educated welding engineers, masters, doctors,..., since this would require first of all an appropriate inner attitude of mind.

On the contrary, meanwhile I have the impression, that - even though the most responsible politicians are talking of "...let there be education for everybody, independent of where he comes from..." it is not r e a l l y wanted that there could emmerge an "immixture" from "trades people" with "studied people" who often having had the chances to experience higher education by having had parents who had the money to support their children in an appropriate way. "Money talks", at least and often here in Germany.

I am pursuing the discussions on this very interested, and there are some smart people who have the theory that even those people - namely the civil servants, politicians,..., - are creating laws of education protecting their children to sit beside "working class people" at the university.

I know this sounds provoking, could generate loads of conflictions and of course I do not know how the situation looks in the USA, but this is how I see the "world" meanwhile.

That was the reason for me to express my greatest respect to Jon (jon20013) within this discussion. People like Jon do have my greatest respect since they are that highly experienced to really know what they are talking about. And although those fellows have certainly reached the highest level of education and reputation which would enable them to be "withdrawn" they are the exact opposite of being even that. This - so my humble opinion - is true greatness or better "greatness of mind"! People like Jon - so my humble impression - have gathered the experience to cooperate with long-term experienced "blue collar people" who have proven their ability to accomplish great work even though "... they may not be capable of performing calculations to the nth..." but "... they probably have a much greater understanding if a conceptual issue will work...".

Here within the AWS Forum there are some very outstanding people playing the same league as our greatly appreciated colleague Jon. Forgive me to not listing their names - yours included - hereinafter since I am fearing to forget someone, and those have my greatest appreciation and respect to not looking upon if somebody is "just" a welder or even yet an "inspector".

There are great stories to read with this thread and of course I may be wrong by having written what I wrote but however...

I guess a book as being supported by the AWS could be one of the necessary steps to adjust again the true "worth of a tradesman" against the "worth of a college graduated engineer". Both ones are necessary and as Jon and you said, both can stand toe-to-toe if their "worths" are truly recognized by the observer.

Best regards,
Stephan

By Kix

Date 07-28-2008 12:38

Stephan, I don't know if you've ever heard of the International World Skills Competition (WSC), but if you ever get the chance to check it out if and when it comes back to your country, you should. Anyway, to kind of describe how different countries governments promote trades, I will explain what you would see during the opening ceremonies of this event. When the different countries walk in you will see huge teams of over 60 competitors such as Korea, Japan, Taiwan, China, Brazil, and many others because they have government backing. Germany is one of the smaller teams consisting of usually over 20 competitors and U.S.A. is usually amongst the smallest never consisting over more then 11 competitors because we have to look to corporations for sponsorship to send a team. In 2009 the WSC will be held in Calgary Canada and it rumored that it might be the U.S.A's last huraa at a WSC.
Germany is definitely not alone in how people look at trades. Counselors at our high schools encourage our student to pursue college and not to take a vocational route. I have experienced this first hand and would love nothing more then to have a few words with my highschool counselor to let her know where the trade of welding has taken me. The AWS and all it's members are working hard over here to try and turn things around and I feel things will in due time.

By Stephan (***)

Date 07-29-2008 14:33

Thanks for replying, Ray!

By bullsnbets (**)

Date 07-19-2008 17:59

I dropped out of school as a freshman, in High School. I did however go on and get my GED at the age of 16. I passed it with College scores and was told that I wasn't allowed to get my actual Certificate until age 18. I come from a family of "Workoholics". I watched my dad work his butt of on the Drilling Rigs growing up to support 7 Children. I think that and my youth is the reason for my drive to be successful in my business. I am now 33 yrs. old and very happy with my life as well as my many accomplishments.

After passing my GED exam with the scores that I did, I was approached by several individuals in the "Education" field about going to college instead of persuing Welding, but my mind was made up. I'm a hand. Not a warm butt on a soft seat at a boring desk. To know that when X-ray pulls off a line and the pipe is in the ditch, that I have had a part in the future of Humanity in regards to Gas production, is quite satisfying. I had a helper 2 months ago that was 28, went to College for 9 yrs. He has a degree in Biology, and now he drives a forklift for Coca Cola Dist. making $9.00 an hr. As my helper he was making $8.00.

I couldn't be happier with my decision to continue on my path to success as a welder. I am happy. My family is happy. What more could you ask for?

By yorkiepap (***)

Date 07-20-2008 13:25

Hey Ross,
Your summation is quite correct. My youth, here in SW PA near Pittsburgh, was the steel industry and manufacturing. My entire family is "blue-collar" and very proud of it. We all learned the work ethic very early in our growing years and probably 90% of this areas' workforce was blue-collar. Now it has the dubious moniker of being called the "rustbelt". Starting in the '80's, the educational system really projected the doom of the blue-collar worker and instilled the thought that a college education is the only way you will make it in the future. Many schools reduced their vocational offerings and the opportunities to enter one of the skilled trades that never lost the demand for good, qualified tradesmen to continue building our nations infrastructures. So, what happened? All those college educated students couldn't find the positions that they thought were available and many did go to the trades to establish a decent income to sustain a family and have a comfortable lifestyle. Now, it's coming back to bite them in the a$$ as the demand for blue-collar grows continually and the loss of manufacturing moves overseas. There are a couple of excellent posts a while back on our educational system that has some great responses & information provided by fellow members here. Maybe you can dig them up & provide additional fodder to the author...... Denny

By TaylorTolliver (*)

Date 07-21-2008 04:33

Haha. Its quite interesting to read this.I am 18 I just graduated high school. As I went to the high school, I went half the day to a vocational school. On the tour of the vocational school, we got to choose 2 classes where we wanted to go. I chose Construction Trades and Welding. As you can see here I am at the AWS site so i chose welding. I was one of about 4 or 5 people in the class that actually tried out of about 20 starters. we lost about 9 people after the first year cause I live in Cleveland Ohio and you can figure the rest out for yourself. Haha. Anyway, I was always working in class. And the basis of our class was this. We obviously learned the welding processes. We had Oxy-Acetylene, Stick, TIG, MIG, Spray MIG, and Flux Cored. We also had cutting operations obviously. Plasma, Oxy-Acetylene (Robot, Hand, Track Cutting) and all that good stuff. Pretty much the basis of the welding side was to use all the different processes and weld in all positions. Stick was 6010 weld in all positions, 6012 and 6013 weld flat, 7024 flat, and weld 7018 in all positions and all welding processes. We had to do two of each weld meaning we would have to do to flat tee welds with 7018, or 2 flat 7018 welds Vertical up and so was the same with all rods and welding positions and all welding processes. The only rod we welded down with was 6010, because reading on this site I guess its cause of the cellulose content. ANYWAY, I preferred stick and Flux-cored. Spray MIG was pretty much more liquid like Flux-cored so I was better at it than Short Circuit MIG. But by far I did the most work in the class and i finished all my cutting and welding work far before anyone else. And since my attendance was good and since I was a good student, my senior year I got the option to be an intern and go to work half the day instead of school. I chose this place called EMH Crane where we build.... well, cranes! Overhead Cranes to be exact, and gantry Cranes. It's all Flux-cored welding and you dont have to be certified to work there which is bad cause not only am I not certified, but half the d**ned people in that shop cant weld a basic flat Tee and make it look halfway decent to save their life. But I am getting certified soon, at least I hope in FCAW and Maybe some 7018 and 6010 even though i havent stick welded since last October when i left to work which replaced my school welding lab time. And i have been at EMH Crane for 9 months now. I started off horrible there seeing as I was always paranoid of messing stuff up and being fired. Now I dont even wince at any weld in any position cause I have learned how to prevent all my previous mistakes. But my supervisor is a rear end hole and sometimes I wanna knock his teeth out cause hes a grumpy old SOAB and ticks everyone off everyday. ANYWAY since I am graduated I now work there full time and at the current moment we are in overtime working from 6:30am to 5pm and we are booked with work till February. And to add to it, my boss got a call about 1 SINGLE COMPANY ordering 150 GANTRY CRANES AFTER THAT FEBRUARY BOOKING!!!! I will post some picture links of what one looks like. It took me and my co worker Scotty 5 days to weld just the endtrucks. Thats not counting the entire frame structure. Endtrucks are just what the crane rides on.

But yea my sisters brother and law is overseeing a building job of the new justice center in Cleveland for the Ironworkers. So I could get in pretty easy after a few steps. But yea, I am glad I chose a trade rather than school cause I hated school and no way am i spending money to go back when I could be making money. I am a hands on kind of kid. But i am into computers, I can tell you almost everything about them, but i love to build things and see my work do great things. Right now at my company we are building a 225 ton Over head crane for Siemens Construction who is world reknown. We have built them many cranes but this is the biggest. The box girder alone is 8 feet tall, 5 foot wide and 90 foot long. Me and my co worker terry built the hoist and with the hoist completely done the hoist by itself weighs 28000 pounds! I have a picture of a previous 200 ton crane made before i started there. We built a crane for Boeing, you know the plane company. It was so huge it had to be a 3 sectioned crane. It was about 150ft long. But yea, im hoping to get certified and go into the Ironworkers cause busting my hine-end and seriously burning more than anyone for 10 bucks an hour is garbage. So I slowed down my production, cause noone could keep up with me so i had to finish their work for them so they could build something new for me to do so that I wouldn't pile up welded objects that couldnt be shipped out for weeks which would just be taking up space. Anyway I like this field but not all the people in it. Haha. Yea its been while since I have been on here but i will check up everyday now. Here are the pics from my work...

Here are some gantry Cranes

http://www.emhcranes.com/industry/power3.htm BIG ONE

http://www.emhcranes.com/industry/concrete2.htm

http://www.emhcranes.com/industry/aviation1.htm

Double Girders

http://www.emhcranes.com/industry/power1.htm Not even as big as the one we are making now. :O

http://www.emhcranes.com/industry/metal4.htm

Yea. Cya guys around. :)

By Erikgr7 (*)

Date 07-21-2008 18:34

Well I had some of my friends go the college route. One wanted to be a
band director and went to a private school who's tuition was $20,000 a year.

Since it takes 4 years to graduate..he came out with a debt of $80,000.
The most he will ever make is about $3,000 a month in salary. Not a very
good return on his investment.

I did go to Tech school for welding. My tuition was 400 a quarter and my
school lasted one year. Spent about $1,600 in total for school. I worked
my way up at different places including welding trains at TTX Hamburg.

Now, I am working in Norway as a full-time welder making a killing...lol

Welding has been great to me. Best decision I ever made was to get into the
trade.

By Mat

Date 07-22-2008 12:22 Edited 07-22-2008 14:39

In highschool, the trades were pushed secondary to academics. I originally went the academic route, but it didn't last long. I always had an interest in working with metal, but never really had the chance too. When my old man was managing the Jasper Tramway, I recall as a youngeon watching a tradesman torch cut something, I thought it was the coolest thing! Later on, I took an interest in historical fencing I suppose, and had an obsession with wanting to make hilts. It wasn't until after I learned to weld that I got hooked! While I no longer fence, it was one of the things that made me want to weld! I still have the latest practice rapier I hilted with an Angus Trim blade.
Here's the first incarnation, with the visor I built for my helmet!
http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y23/mb_welder/helmclean.jpg

This is the second version, before I gave it a larger (3/4" x 2" with about 1/4" bevelled corners) counterweight and wrapped the steel cored handle with a black leather cord.
http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y23/mb_welder/guardnew002.jpg

The most elaborate guard I built took a lot of plasma cutting, grinding and patience. Sadly, I no longer have it *sigh* I hope it found a good home! On this one, I didn't build the handle or counterweight.
http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y23/mb_welder/agearts002.jpg

This guard I made for a friend. The rings were bent in a vice, and it was all cleaned with a die grinder. That was fun, lol.
http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y23/mb_welder/43-21.jpg

This guard was also made for another friend, not the prettiest, but it did the job at the time. Sadly, we no longer get along. S'funny that...Regardless, it was my first experience with forming sheet metal.
http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y23/mb_welder/2-1.jpg

This was a later project, which I gave to a friend for a case of beer, lol. It was one of my first successful sheet metal projects! My god, I have a lot of pics on photobucket, lol! A lot of research pictures, ironically! I rolled the edge using a pair of vice grips as far as I could, then hammered it over a piece of railroad track before bending it to shape over my knee, which was fun!
http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y23/mb_welder/targa6001.jpg
http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y23/mb_welder/targa6002.jpg

Memory lane, lol.
Back in "C" level, I made this one, lol! http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y23/mb_welder/1s.jpg stick welded, if you could call it that!

Back on topic, I flunked out of Art School at the OUC North Campus (Art History, literature, and pop culture mainly! The studio stuff was great, except for the models...) and went into welding school at the OUC South Campus, which is now the Okanagan College.

Honestly? The trade has been uphill all the way, but that doesn't mean I'm gonna stop. Everytime I've left a place, the wage has gone up. I've learned a lot, and that's what keeps me going. I want to go as far as I can. Name a trade that in some form doesn't involve something made out of metal? *shrugs*

I don't miss welding truck parts for 12.80 an hour though! It was a fresh start out of trade school, I suppose! The wage has doubled since then, but even 4 jobs later, I'm still looking for something better. Show me a political free work environment where everyone works towards a common goal without the petty preschool indescrepincies, and I'll show you how I can breathe under water for five minutes without an air tank! ;)

But then, I'm stubborn. Some say I have a sarcastic sense of humor, but don't quote me on that!

But on a more serious note, I went on a trip back home to Jasper, Alberta last week with the girlfriend and her daughter. There's a pipeline in construction going through the park (North American Pipeline Project) and while I was going down the highway, they were distracted by the scenery while I was more or less obsessed with the pipeline. The thing that got me was the organisation. They had the trail marked where it was going with markers, the surveyor trucks at the front loaded with quads, the excavators excavating where the markers were marked, the pipe layed on angles to where they were to be located, the sections to be welded held off the ground on dunnage, the welding gang, some sections were dug to lay the pipe into the ground, where other sections were welded in smaller sections prior to being attached to the main line, and farther down, they had those side lifting crane's for laying the pipe. It was cool to see, and I'd give anything to start on a pipeline as a helper. It really put things into perspective. *shrugs*

By Metarinka (****)

Date 07-22-2008 16:21 Edited 07-22-2008 16:31

good stories all! I like hearing about how people got into welding.
Mat I understand about not wanting to deal with office politics. I get a lot of back lash as a welding engineering intern welders don't like being told something is wrong, "I've been doing it this way for 25 years!". I hate having to tip toe around inflated ego's just to prove things work, a lot of tact is needed to prevent hostility with engineers and welders.

erik I know what you mean about tuition costs, I was paying 2,000$ a year for a welding degree where as UofM down the road was 30,000 a year. The real kicker is that for freshmen and core classes my community college was much better than Univeristy of Michigan, english and math 100 at UM is taught by grad student in a lecture hall with 300 kids. My english class was taught by a technical writer who was still working in the field.

Now all the trully smart kids I know goto community college for 2 years then transfer to a big name school to complete their degree. I feel a lot of the time all you get from a top school is a fancy name. Don't even get me started on "top" universities I'm very disgusted with a lot of the engineering programs at those schools right now. While relevant that's off topic but most trade degrees are much more affordable to those of us who can't drop 20,000 a year while not working.

Taylor enjoy the work. I've been on production floors too where going faster makes everyone look bad. It may not be a good thing now but eventually you'll land jobs that reward hard work and the paycheck wills how. Good luck!

By 3.1 Inspector Date 07-25-2008 18:08

I know my point of view might cause some noise (considering the forum I am in)
I have been a welder myself for 10+ years, it has made me some good money and I have traveled the world a few times....BUT!

I wish I had listened to my parents advise and went to college and university....

Just my two cents...

By Kix

Date 07-25-2008 19:33

Good stuff guys!! I believe that you need to hook welders young these days and show them that you can live a very profitable life as a welder. Councelors and fear (meaning lots of kids these days have no Idea what is out there for them to pursue) are the problem in Highschools and lack of knowledge about trades is the problem in middle school. The only reason I pursued welding in college was so that I could compete in Skills U.S.A. and if that didn't take me anywhere I'd join the ARMY. As I went through the welding technology program I learned a lot about what was out there and got to hear lots of success stories. The AWS section also helped me with all the different directions there are to go in the welding industry.

By jon20013 (*****)

Date 07-26-2008 07:34

I once had the enormous pleasure of sitting through a one week design of weldments course with the greatest, and possibly most recognisable welding designer on earth; Omer Blodgett. I will freely admit much of this course was way over my head... but by the end of the week, I took with me some fundamental principles that I continue to use to this day. As I mentioned before, education is a great thing, but it need not, in all cases, be prerequisite to a richly rewarding career (in terms of self satisfaction AND remuneration).

By dbigkahunna (****)

Date 07-26-2008 18:41

My epiphany came from a manager who was disciplining me for a misdeed. My negative response to him, even when being threatened with my job, caused him to comment "....you are just like a F#{@*^! welder". At the tender age of 28, after dropping out of college at 20 to have fun in the boom then hiring on a major oil pipeline company, I started helping and 6 months later passed my butt, branch and sleeve test. Six years later I began welding inspection on pipelines and have been in inspection, QC/QA and project management ever since.
I enjoy welding and it has provided me the opportunity to see the country, make above average wages and provide personal satisfaction. I deal with engineers and senior project managers who all have degrees. I know I make much better money than them, plus I have the freedom to choose what I do and where I want to be.
I guess that is the one thing I appreciate about the field I have chosen. I have tried to work as an employee in the last 20 plus years, but the fact my BS level is wayyyyyy down there, and I have a good reputation with those I have worked for in the past and the network of friends I have met over the years, I can move on to another project if the carp gets too much. I have learned over the years how to tell someone to KMA without hard feelings, but also how to tell them exactly that if I need to.
I do not regret the fact I chose welding then inspection as a career. I do regret the time I lost to my family pursuing that career though and one needs to really know one's self before starting the traveling gig, as you can quit and stay off heroin easier than you can quit and stay off the the road.
This career has afforded me opportunities and income my dad and granddad could only dream of.
BABRT's

By bozaktwo1 (***)

Date 07-31-2008 17:02

I grew up in Massachusetts, and it seems that my graduation from a real Vocational/Technical public high school is now something only to be remembered. I believe I somehow always knew I would never go to college; I was immensely patriotic as a child, as I am now, and ever since my preadolescent "awakening" in the mid-70s I have been convinced that colleges are places which have little tolerance for freedom of thought. Rather, they are government- and corporate-funded institutions of "progressive" indoctrination, which repress free speech which isn't in the best interest of fostering a "worldly" view. So yes, I want to trade school and became a good conservative. I'm happy with what I do, and have not found that the absence of a sheet of paper on my wall makes me any less valuable to my field. Sadly, the entire nation is going the other way; even the military has now made a degree mandatory in order for enlisted personnel to advance beyond a certain point.

By hogan

Date 07-31-2008 18:19

That is a unique view of higher education in America. Perhaps influenced by religion. Would you be a christian?

By bozaktwo1 (***)

Date 08-01-2008 16:38

Actually, not at all. Just trying to be a good American.

By HgTX

Date 08-01-2008 17:13

With your attitude there would be almost no new developments in technology or medicine--in modern times most of those come from products of the university system and very few from the lone genius tinkering in the basement. I suppose you think engineers, metallurgists, CPAs, doctors, etc., are all a bucha goddam pinkos? Guess we better round 'em all up and deport 'em for the Good Of The Country.

Sheesh. Watch your generalizations there, bud.

Hg

By bozaktwo1 (***)

Date 08-02-2008 22:35

Well, that was quite uncalled for.

To the contrary, I have a great many friends and acquaintances who took the road of higher education, and have made some remarkable contributions to society. You have obviously perceived that my thoughts as a teen and my middle years are the same. Sure, there are some institutions and some faculty at those institutions who are more left of center than I am; such is their right in our country. The next time you feel the need to try to belittle anyone for a personal opinion, it would go over better in a pm, as opposed to public airing. But thanks for the thought. :)

By sbcmweb (****)

Date 08-02-2008 01:35

I wanted to be a weldor, but decided to become a Jedi Master. :-)

By Stephan (***)

Date 08-02-2008 15:21

Steve!

Good heavens!

This is an extraordinary good one*!!

Now that you have "outed" yourself as a Jedi Master (honestly I have always supposed that you're something very special :-):-):-) ) I mean the time has come to finally post a picture of myself...

May the Force be with you! :-)

Best,
Stephan

* Still ROFLMAO!

P.S. Sorry Ross, didn't want to deconsecrate this thread - I know it's a serious subject - but as I read Steve's post I couldn't withstand :-)

By sbcmweb (****)

Date 08-02-2008 16:14 Edited 08-02-2008 16:17

Yes.....I started out as one, but have recently turned more to the ways of the Sith. The good guys don't have cool red lightsabers either. :-)

Yeah, I didn't want to draw attention away from the subject either. It was just too irresistible!

Cool pic! I can't post one of my true Sith identity, or the Jedi Council will send Mercenaries to try & kill me again. :-)

Of course, I dispatched them with my exceptional skill & cunning. hehe

A picture of me, shrouded in disguise. (Actually a ripped photo from the net. :-))

Thanks! Steve.

By Stephan (***)

Date 08-02-2008 16:29

Steve!

Hats off to you MASTER!

Be sure - although not even necessary due to your exceptional skill & cunning - I'd be your greatest interceder within the Jedi Council! :-)

Thanks again, you have truly made my day...
Stephan

By sbcmweb (****)

Date 08-02-2008 17:32

Me too! Thanks!! S.W.

By Jenn

Date 08-05-2008 16:51

Stephan,

I have a nice little widget for my mac desktop that translates any sentence you type in into "yoda speak", and yoda's voice says it for you.... it's quite entertaining!!!! Also nice to leave interesting voicemails on people's phones, and they don't know who it is...... He says the "good words" too! ;)

*again apologies for off topic*

Jenn

By Stephan (***)

Date 08-05-2008 20:38

Hats off to you Madam!

Thanks for this very interesting message...

Hmmm, appears to me that somebody had listened carefully as "Steve the Sith Master" and me did discuss somewhat secretly a time ago and had prepared a program from our cryptical language!

How does Steve always do? Hehehe..! :-)

Stephan...

but actually...

By pipewelder_1999 (****)

Date 08-02-2008 17:23

I really didn't choose or not choose college. I wanted to weld from the 8th grade. I took as many shop classes as was allowed in the state at the time. I took as little math and science as possible (Big mistake).

I started 3 hours a day of welding class at Kingsbury Vocational Center in Memphis. I loved it. I read every welding journal that was there. I would borrow the teachers books and bring them home. Love Jeffersons welding encyclopedia!.

The teacher I had did not necessarily have the credentials a teacher is required to have today. He did however show a love for the trade and he motivated those who were interested. He motivated me to learn all I could and develop all of the skills possible. I would read things in the textbooks or WJs and want to try them. He would let me.

There was no mention of college by any counselors. I took the ASVAB in 11th grade and scored in the top 10% in the country. When the recruiters came, all I told them is I wanted to weld. I chose the Navy. The Navy recruiter said I shoud take the test for the "NUCLEAR POWER PROGRAM" . That test was more math and physics based. Fortunately I scored low in math and did not qualify. What I didn't know at the time is that all of the welds made by people inthat program were cut out by "real" welders when the ship came in. ("any bubble head welders here, forgive me. I can,t operate a reactor!)

In my case, less education helped me work in a job I love.

If at the time in high school someone would have told me I could go to college for welding, I would have been all over it. At that time in HS I was working for 7ish an hour welding portable lighting trailers and some of the guys there told me I could go far in the trade if I stuck with it. They encouraged me a great bit. At break I would weld plates in the back and show some of them how to run7018 uphill. I guess thats what some of them thought was the thing to know. All we did was GMAW. I worked 39.5 hours a week for a great part of my 10th and 11th grade years. Maybe that couts as college.

Going into the Navy welding school I was suprised to find out that as far as metalworking and welding theory review went, I was perfoming review of things I learned in HS. My 1st discussion regarding weave beads versus stringer beads was with a man named Mr. Yell. Though my understanding of the topic today is similar. Mr. Yell would possible have a harder time getting me to not provide some finer points related to the topic.

I have interviewed for numerous positions requiring a degree. I wish I had one however at this time I can't think of any two years of experience that is not a good part of what I know today.

I think the choices in welding can incorporate so many different aspects and levels of experience that it is somehwat unique.

Im on my phone typing this so forgive the errors. More may follow. I just love welding wheter it be doing, reading about, or teaching someone about it.

By bozaktwo1 (***)

Date 08-05-2008 16:37

Mr. Yell with his big ol' Harley and his Porsche 944. That dude and me didn't get along too well, but man I never forgot anything he taught me.

By pipewelder_1999 (****)

Date 08-05-2008 16:53

He was a character. We went to a gathering at a park somewhere. Nothing but bikers and 3 squids. I should have remebered more but for some reason, its all kinda foggy. I had a lot less sense back then.

By Revjsnizzle (**)

Date 08-05-2008 16:55

I had never even tried welding before High school, always worked on cars and such, then one day my shop teacher asked me if I wanted to try OxyFuel welding, I had never done it so I gave it a shot....like a fish to water!!! I loved it. Not only did I get to play with fire but the thought of joining metal with fire was awesome to me. I took some classes at the OATC (Ogden Applied Technology Center) while I was going to school, untill I finished High school. Then went on a mission for the LDS church with the thoughts of coming home and getting into Underwater welding. However when I got home and had talked to a bunch of people that have done that and alot of them telling me to go to a University I did that. Worked full time as a welder/supervisor and went to school full time got my degree in Welding Engineering, and been grateful ever since. It has made me a better welder and manager of welders with my background in actually knowing how to weld over just the theroy of it. Could I have been just as happy burning rod everyday....Absolutly!! Nothing makes me more happy then the smell of ozone created in a fab shop from welding...y'all know what I am talking about....ohhh yeah.