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Up Topic Welding Industry / General Welding Discussion / structural test
- - By welder08 Date 07-23-2008 23:42
I am currently a welder for hmt. For those of you who do not know what that is, we are a little fab/tank shop in Blackwell, Oklahoma. My boss and i have been talking about me going on the road for hmt and traveling. To do that i will have to pass a structural test. 1 inch plate beveled at 45 degrees, 5p/6010 root pass, 6010 hotpass, 7018 the rest. My main problem is the root, i can not get a solid root at all. I am having the same problem everybody else has/had. i keep burning through and when i dont it looks like hell. Open to all tips and advice. Thanks
Parent - - By ziggy (**) Date 07-24-2008 01:36
welder08

Just curious but what code is this test taken from?

You call it a "structural test" with a 1" plate. It sounds like the AWS D1.1 unlimited thickness plate test. If so, first off you will need to use a written welding procedure (WPS) to work from to take the test. Your boss should be able to provide that to you. (BTW, it is not just the picture from the code book showing the 1" plate with the groove!)

In addition, if you are talking "structural steel" then you may want to double-check Table 3.1 to make sure you are not violating the code by running non-low hydrogen electrodes on group II steels. Your plate is probably A36 but at the 1" thickness, it falls into group II steels which restricts you to only low-hydrogen electrodes like 7018, not the 6010's.

Maybe that is of some help. Hope so.

Best wishes for a successful test...

ziggy
Parent - - By welder08 Date 07-24-2008 02:06
a lot of what you just said honestly confused me. im only 19 and have been working here for about a year. so im not very familiar with all the terminology that you just used. im just calling it a structural test bc thats what the guys in the shop call it. i just wanna know how to stop blowing through!
Parent - - By aevald (*****) Date 07-24-2008 03:34
Hello welder08, in a nutshell what ziggy is trying to say is that a structural test doesn't include any 60 series electrodes, no E6010 or E6011 or any other E60XX type rod. So your mention of using E6010 for the root and hot-pass would indicate this is not a structural test. Generally, the 1" plate test that you are describing would be run with a backing strip and welded completely with E7018 or the root might be welded with E7018 and then back-gouged or ground and then rewelded once sound metal has been found . When you start talking about using 5P for roots and then switching to E7018 for finishing you are describing a form of boilermaker test. I don't know that even the boilermakers use 1" though. As far as being successful on open roots with 5P, you will need to pay attention to the land that you are using(land refers to the flat ground face that you will grind instead of leaving the bevel coming to a point), many folks will use a nickel land, meaning the width of this flat will be equal to the thickness of a nickel. Then you will have to decide on the amount of gap that you will use, this can vary widely, some will go as tight as 1/16", others might go as wide as almost 5/32". Keep in mind that the width of the land and the root gap will have a lot to do with the amperage setting that will work and also how you will need to manipulate the electrode. There are many forms of electrode manipulation, having said that, you may want to consider using the search function of the Forum and typing in 5P pipe root or trying other variations of this caption. There are many previous threads that are archived that discuss these techniques in detail. Hope this has answered a little bit of your questions, Welcome to the forum and enjoy all that is available through this resource. Best regards, aevald
Parent - - By welder08 Date 07-24-2008 23:51
that made a lot more sense. you answered a lot of my questions and concerns i had. i have been practicing after work for a few hours every day so hopefully before too long ill be able to pass with flying colors and hit the road! i apologize ziggy if i had seemed like kind of an ass i wasnt meaning to come off that way. but thanks to all of you. your answers mean alot.
Parent - By ziggy (**) Date 07-25-2008 02:28
welder08

no offense taken...this is a great place to get input on a variety of topics...that is actually why I joined AWS years ago because my experience was all in structural steel fabrication of buildings and some bridges...but I wanted to learn more...so I joined AWS, started going to some meetings and met folks from all different backgrounds, nuclear, ASME (pressure vessel), API (petroleum), motorsports welding and more...

like one person told me years ago: a mind is like a parachute, it works best when it is open! and that is how it works on the forum!

best wishes for a successful test!

ziggy
Parent - By Blackf350 Date 07-24-2008 05:08
Sounds to me if you are a tank fab shop and are welding 1inch thick plate u would be welding under API codes  and are not allowed to use 6010 on any steel thicker than 3/8inch.  Any way try pushing your rod into the steel with a saw like motion with a slight pause when u push threw once your weld starts to come back threw on the top pull back and push threw again. Should look like a top part of a key hole top of your rod when it burns back at u on the pause. Make shure u dont move to slow or u will end up with a hole.
Parent - By jwright650 (*****) Date 07-24-2008 10:36
What size rod are you using and where do you have your machine set? It sounds like you are running either too hot or travelling way too slow, if you keep blowing holes in the backing bar. I'm with these other guys, I have never seen a Structural test taken with any 60 series rods, so check the welding procedure and make sure that is the rod to be using on this test. We use all 7018 from root to cap. On the 1", 45* single bevel test in the Horizontal position, we preheat the plate just a bit to somewhere around 125F or so and then start laying in the root with a 5/32" 7018 at about 185 amps A/C. If you can't run the root with that without blowing through, you seriously need to speed up because you are hanging around too long and the puddle is just getting away from you. Good Luck with your test.
Parent - - By Sourdough (****) Date 07-25-2008 00:08
Sounds like your boss needs to read up on the procedures, before he puts you through the test. The only structural test I can see this being is a d1.1 or 5. Mayhap someone will correct me, but I have never- ever been on any xray structural job that allowed dh, (downhill), rod.

NOW, when I tested for d1.1 in 1988, the procedure was to run open root uphill with 5p, (6010). Finish out with LH, (7018) uphill. I got my first aws cert from that test.......

Did the procedure change?
Parent - - By welder08 Date 07-25-2008 00:59
now all of you have me wondering...have any of you guys heard of matrix?
Parent - By Blackf350 Date 07-25-2008 04:40
I have they are a tank repair outfit right.
Up Topic Welding Industry / General Welding Discussion / structural test

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