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Up Topic Welding Industry / General Welding Discussion / 7018 AC, my boss is an idiot
- - By LongArc (**) Date 07-23-2008 01:03
My boss is an idiot he's sending me out to install a boileroom using 3-4 inch sch 40 pipe using e7018 AC rood for your root fill and cap. That what happens when the plumbers are incharge or the welders. Can you give me any AWS API ASME Codes to show him he's wrong. I can do open root on a perfect fit but if theres an wide gap I can't wip it like 61010 if I do I get slag inclusion. The covers look slick but it takes longer then dc 7018.
Parent - By swsweld (****) Date 07-23-2008 03:00
You should ask him to let you see the WPS that you are welding to. Probably doesn't have one. If he produces one you should follow it. It most likely will include a 6010 root and optional hot and a 7018DC hot, fill and cap.

If the inspector or engineer inquires and you are not following the WPS then you might be cutting the welds out.

The contract specifications WILL address the pressure pipe welding. It will say that you shall follow the WPS (welding procedure specification). Your company should have submitted this information to the engineer or architect for approval before welding.

I suggest that you politely ask to see the WPS, that you want to follow it to keep your company(and him) out of trouble. If he doesn't have one then suggest that they should get one before they get "busted". Until you see the WPS and verify the correct electrodes tell him that a 6010 root 7018 fill-cap is industry standard. Sounds like you are working to ASME B31.1? I do not have that with me tonight.

Your last sentence is your best arguement (7018AC takes longer) Tell him that you can weld it better and faster with the right rods.

Once again, it is all in the WPS. Does he have one?
Parent - By G.S.Crisi (****) Date 07-23-2008 21:35
Take it easy, LongArc, life is short and it doesn't pay off to get upset because of small details.
As a matter of fact, neither AWS nor API and ASME precludes the use of low hydrogen electrodes for the first (or root)  pass, son you can't use a written stuff from those institutions to convince your boss.
It's decades of experience that recommends not to use a low hydrogen electrode for the first pass, due to its low penetration properties.
Decades of experience recommend to use a cellulosic electrode (good penetration) such as 6010 or 6011, and then complete the weld  with a low hydrogen one.
I used to see that recommendation on literature (catalogues, for example) published by Lincoln and ESAB.
Giovanni S. Crisi   
Parent - - By Kix (****) Date 07-24-2008 18:01
7018 A/C roots are actually very common in some areas of the states and the world.  Your right about the fitup though, it has to be pretty much spot on so don't slack in that area.
Parent - - By LongArc (**) Date 07-24-2008 23:17 Edited 07-24-2008 23:20
Thanks for the info. Ive calmed down. I wasn't formilar with 7018 AC. I thought it was fantasy welding. I thought it wasn't used for a root. I guess it can be done is there any other rod you can use for a root on AC instead? I know 6010 dosn't work I found out the hard way when someone thought it'll be funny on a weld test. It gets hot I tuned it down to 30 amps. it was smoky as hell. lol
Parent - - By Sourdough (****) Date 07-25-2008 00:36
Betcha had a big 'ol bead when you were done!

You know, sometimes you just have to nod your head and wait for your "superior" to leave before doing it your way, (the right way).

Granted, you have to know what you are doing.....................
Parent - By 803056 (*****) Date 07-25-2008 02:04
I took my first open root pipe test in the 6G using E7018 for the root, fill, and cover, using vertical upward progression. I passed, so that would indicate to me anyone can if they are willing to put in a little practice time if they aren't familiar with the technique.

There is E7018AC available, but it isn't the norm.

Best regards - Al
Parent - - By LongArc (**) Date 07-25-2008 03:27
Here's the AC welder that my POS rat company sent me out with to do 3 boiler rooms with http://orlando.craigslist.org/tls/768174100.html. It containly pauses for a slit sec every 4-8 seconds duing my weld any tips on this POS. It has oil and fuel. Any tips....
Parent - - By Kix (****) Date 07-25-2008 12:57
Lincoln E7018 excaliber rods put the best A/C root in with a machine that has a good A/C arc(not and engine drive).  If you are using and engine drive, good luck. ;-) A/C E7018 rods suck A$$ for slicking a root in (DON'T USE THEM).  I've put E7018 A/C roots in with rods from all over the world and the Lincoln excaliber was the by far the best one.  I'm not one to promote any one particular brand for anyhting, I'm just telling you from experience.  I use what works!!!  Your big problems with some rods are that the flux finger nails to either the right or the left making the rod hard to control, you get some rods that the arc is hard to keep lit while your pushing real hard to get penn(you should see no arc on your side of the pipe, it should all be going out the back), and you have some rods that like to be run slightly hotter then others making it hard to make a nice bead on the backside (meaning it's flush or sucked back instead of being above flush slightly).
Parent - By Tommyjoking (****) Date 07-25-2008 13:40
Ray has a good point and commentary

The Lincolns will run better....its still hard to get a smooth root without a bunch of crap to clean up/ tie up on the sides with your 2nd pass.  It can be done but its work.    My only real $.02 on this is ...show me the papers/specs telling me I have to do it like this and thats what I will do...what it says on the paper....other then that its up for debate.
Parent - - By LongArc (**) Date 07-26-2008 04:06
I argee lincon is better is its abity to restike and hold the flux. Admark seems to hold up at high temps but its not a miricule rod. I'm finding out that the AC adamark runs better cold, The rod I'm using is aleast 3 years old, an open mistry box. I told my boss I need a rod oven for this job he didn't get one sent out. He said its not winter time you don't need it.....The dumber get dumber,,,
Parent - By Kix (****) Date 07-28-2008 12:48
Yes you really need to get a rod oven and just throw the rods away that are three years old.  You will have better results using a plain old 7018 on A/C and not using a 7018 designed to run on A/C.  The excalibers and the graphite added to the flux for better restarting are not what makes it a good rod to use.  They still don't start worth a crap most of the time after they have ran for a bit.  I allways get a new rod for good restarts unless I can get the old rod back in there while the tip of the rod is still hot.  7016's were designed for Low hydrogen open. Maybe try some of those for sits and gigles to see if ya can't get them to run more consitently and then qualify a procedure.
Parent - By Sourdough (****) Date 07-27-2008 13:25
euctectic is a superior lh rod. If you buy it, you WILL NOT be sorry!!
Up Topic Welding Industry / General Welding Discussion / 7018 AC, my boss is an idiot

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