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Up Topic Welding Industry / General Welding Discussion / Need help with 1' unlimited thickness plate test
- - By Jeffrey Grady (***) Date 07-29-2008 04:15
Hello folks!
I am going to be weld testing for Komatsu in Peoria, IL on Thursday. i have never done an Unlimited thickness test before. It will be performed using GMAW using Lincoln L56 .052 wire, (which I haven't run as yet), I have only welded using .035 and .045 wire. The test plate will be beveled and that's about all I know. The weld parameters will not be pre-set and only suggestions as to wire feed speed and voltage will be given. I know from some literature they sent me that they run their machines at a high feed speed. i am assuming 500-600 ipm. I could really use some in depth advice on how to approach this test, e.g., after laying in a good root, should i use a push or pull with the gun? What's the best way to bring it all the way out flush. I have only done tests for groove weld on 3/8 plate using .045 wire in 2G, and it only took a root and 2 passes to complete. This one is 1" plate in 1G.
A little play by play on how to do this properly would really help. Thanks Folks.
Respectfully, Jeffrey Grady
Parent - - By rick harnish (***) Date 07-29-2008 05:32
Hey Jeffrey! Never tested like that, so I have zero advice. Just wanted to wish you luck!!
Parent - By Jeffrey Grady (***) Date 07-29-2008 15:59
Rick,
Thanks for the best wishes. I really would hate to bust this test. I haven't busted one yet, but then I haven't done an unlimited thickness test either.
Thanks Man!
respectfully, Jeffrey
Parent - - By Pipeslayer (**) Date 07-29-2008 11:08
I feel  if you've welded before you should be able to set the gun. Listen to the sound when it sounds like frying bacon you're close. This is a flat test so it should be fairly easy. Dont worry I bet it'll be fine. Get some scrap to set the machine and practice for 15-20 min. If this is big stuff they my want the test in a spray mode??
Parent - By Jeffrey Grady (***) Date 07-29-2008 16:15
Mark,
Yep, there's gonna be a short period of practice allowed to set machine to the wire speed and voltage each person is most comfortable with. The test will be performed in Spray transfer Mode and maybe Pulsed. I know that if it's Spray, I will need a "frying bacon" type sound to know I am in the ball park. I know how to set for that. i also know that if it's Pulsed, it will sound kind of like a big Bumble bee Buzz. I just got myself all worked up because of the very heavy plate Komatsu uses for their mining truck operation. I'm probably worrying for no good cause. After all, I am not new to GMAW welding. Thanks for Your input on this.
Respectfully, Jeffrey
Parent - - By darren (***) Date 07-29-2008 11:16 Edited 07-29-2008 11:25
http://content.lincolnelectric.com/pdfs/products/literature/c410.pdf
pg 13
http://content.lincolnelectric.com/pdfs/products/literature/c4200.pdf
pg 69

for me i would ask for a set up piece of scrap and dont look at the numbers on the machine
start around 30 volts and adjust the wire accordingly. if you feel she's a little cold go up a little  remember this is most likely going to be full spray transfer unless they use pure CO2. and if it is pure CO2 you'll have so much penetration you will not have to worry about it at all
depending  on the plate configuration (run off tabs) i would start at one end weld approximately half way and start at the other end and weld into the middle making sure that my next pass does not have a stop in the exact same spot. it will give you the best chance of getting your weld to the ends without any great big craters and it will give them an idea of your tie in capabilities. one thing is to make sure you dont try and make your cap from to deep in the groove take it to almost flush before you cap. this is actually a very fast test maybe 4 to 6 passes depending if they let you weave at all. just pour the sauce to it and she'll be just fine, after all its just welding and you've already proven you can do that so no worries, that plate is gonna be  some hot when your done.
darren
Parent - - By MICHAEL B (*) Date 07-29-2008 12:26
This is our normal unlimited thickness test, except we use .045 wire. There is not much difference in .052, so don't worry about that. We use a 95/5 Argon/CO2 mix. I would set the machine at about 33 Volts and 500 ipm wire speed to start out, as we all know each machine is different, and fine tune it from there. What I tell my guys is to make 3 passes, then split the remaining (usually 4 passes). Make sure to preheat the test pice and clean very good between passes. The most common problem for my guys is they get too much reinforcement, 1/8" max. I also tell them NOT to stop in the middle, as Darren has stated. Reason being, my test plate is 10", D1.1 only requires 5". So, I let them weld the 10" test plate and cut out the best 5" to send off for RT. Also, always push, never drag. Hope this helps.

Michael
Parent - By Kix (****) Date 07-29-2008 12:50
Man that's half the battle being able to do the test on a 5" long test coupon.  You could save a ton of material and time if you you use angle iron on the ends and disgard the inch on both ends of the coupons.  Most guys usually have no problem getting 3 inches of good weld in the 5" coupon with angle iron on top of the backing strip.  I feel your pain about the over an 1/8" build up.  I always have them flush out then cook it across the coupon for the cap.lol  If they go over flush before the cap, the grinder is your friend, but only for the guys that you need to qualify and not the new guy in off the street.;-)
Parent - By Jeffrey Grady (***) Date 07-29-2008 16:38
Michael,
Thank You. most everything I've been told in this thread is pretty much what I had already envisioned the test to be like, and how to perform said test. I'm just getting nervous because I haven't done this test before. Thanks for the great Information.
Respectfully, Jeffrey
Parent - By ctacker (****) Date 07-29-2008 19:48
When I do Welder qualifications, they weld an 8" plate 1" thick, the complete 8 inches is subject to visual inspection with 5" X-rayed. when your in production and splicing a plate, they dont discard the ends of the splices!
Parent - - By Jeffrey Grady (***) Date 07-29-2008 16:29
darren,
Thanks for Your response. I'm just getting pre-test jitters is all. Tie- in of my welds sounds like one heck of a good idea. Especially if run off tabs are not allowed. This will keep my test plate free of craters at the ends...even though they are taking 1" off each end and tossing it out. Thanks for posting up on this. The links were helpful too.
Respectfully, Jeffrey
Parent - - By darren (***) Date 07-30-2008 10:24
there you have it, guys who actually administer the test, some sound advice there.
darren
Parent - By Jeffrey Grady (***) Date 07-30-2008 19:09
darren,
No kidding man! I have gotten some really good advice on this and, now I'm gonna just get in a Zen type mode today and go test tomorrow. I'm thinking that about 30-32V and 450-500 IPM is the range I'm gonna work with.
Respectfully, Jeffrey
Parent - - By Kix (****) Date 07-29-2008 12:40
Ask if they have any 1"x1" angle iron that you can cut about an inch off of for run off tabs (put in on the end of your test plate so it somewhat matches your bevel angle, it won't be exact).  This will help you get the 1" thick test plat full all the way across and look really nice in the actaul test plate area.  A lot of guys will be under filled on the ends of the plate because there is not enough build up due to the molten metal wanting to just run off on to your starting tabs.  Do not half ass the fitup for your root pass. Make sure you have a consistent gap all the way down and a consistent root face. Look to see that the bottom edge of your test plate is tieing into the backing strip.  For spray transfer, you want to use a push gun angle for all you passes.  Build your stringers up to flush out the plate and then run really fast stringers for the cap.  This will help get rid of the undercut you will likely see on your last stringer if you go to slow and try to make up for not having your coupon flushed out. 
     You are welding this coupon in the horizantal position and code lets you kick your plate back at an angle, but you might want to ask if you can first(DON'T say "well code says you can" because then they'll be gunning for ya most likely thinking your a know it all "maybe".  Run that root in hot with a good amount of wire to compinsate, probably 30v and somewhere around 550IPM ought to be close.  If it's real noisey then back the wire off because it should sound nice and smooth with a nice ssssssshhhhhhhhh.  After the root, tame her down a bit.  When you get the coupon flushed out, ask or go for a pee to let let your plate cool down for a minute before you cap her for best results.  Hope some of this helps ya out!! Good luck!!
Parent - - By pypLynr (***) Date 07-29-2008 16:17
I would go with Michael B 's info... years ago when I was on the line, we took the same test. Our coupons were 8" and the QC would mark out 6" and allow an inch on each end for start and stop. His settings sound so close that you could set the machine cold and run a scrap piece and just jump on the coupon, if it felt right. Good luck on it !!
Parent - By Jeffrey Grady (***) Date 07-29-2008 16:53
pypLynr,
yep, I agree. These setting sound pretty good to me. I was going to start out on a practice piece @ about 30V and 450 ipm just to see how it felt. I'm gonna stay in the 30-33V and 450 to 500 IPM range for practice to see how it all feels before I jump in with my final settings. Thanks for posting up on this.
Respectfully, Jeffrey 
Parent - - By Jeffrey Grady (***) Date 07-29-2008 17:04
Kix,
Thanks for all the sound advice. I will not play know it all with these people. Anyway the test is a 1G, so I don't have to worry about the effects of gravity on this one. I've done the 2G on 3/8" plate 3times and once on 1/2" plate, and niether one took me more than 3 passes to bring out flush. As I've mentioned to all others who have posted to this...I'm just getting the pre-test jitters. Once I get there and warm up, I'm sure I'll feel fine. Thanks Again.
Respectfully, Jeffrey
Parent - By Pipeslayer (**) Date 07-29-2008 18:49
Jeffery even without runoff tabs the ends will be discarded defore testing unless their using RT.
Parent - - By Goose-em (**) Date 07-29-2008 17:22
Mess with them a little and ask for a welding procedure. 

Always push with GMAW for the most part.  L56 wire is nothing but a brand name the AWS # is still E70S-X. 

.052 will require a lower wire feed speed than .045 or .035. 

In the flat position you should be able to run 27 to 32 volts and WFS around 300 - 500

It will take more passes than 3/8" plate but who cares you just weld till it's full.  Keep your cap with no more than 1/8" reinforcement.

Now go to the lincoln web site and pull the specs on that wire, they will give you a general range as to WFS and V
Parent - - By Jeffrey Grady (***) Date 07-29-2008 23:47
Goose-em,
Yep, thanks..went to website and printed off the operating procedures for this wire. Spray transfer is at about 30V and 320 IPM. I would suppose that is the low end and it changes with a higher percentage of Argon to co2, to 32V and 485 IPM. So, I'll do as I said. I'll practice for the time allotted and then run my coupon. It will be RT'd so no taking chances with the ends. I'll weld as good as I can get it.
The settings you give are smack in the middle for IPM that Lincoln gives. Do you really think it would be wise of me to ask for a WPS?
Respectfully, Jeffrey
Parent - - By Goose-em (**) Date 07-30-2008 20:26
I guess it depends on if they have WPS's or not.  Personally if a welder is weld testing for me I like them to ask for a WPS as it is a sign they are not only familiar with welding but they are also familiar with code requirements.

Up to you
Parent - By Jeffrey Grady (***) Date 07-30-2008 21:14
Goose-em,
  I do agree with You. I just didn't want to come off as a "know it all" type to them. I certaily hope they hold the same view point on this that You do, because if it's not offered up...I'm Gonna ask for one. What's the worst that can happen...they say no. They're a very large company (Komatsu), and I am sure they have had the request for a WPS before. Thank You.
Respectfully, Jeffrey
Up Topic Welding Industry / General Welding Discussion / Need help with 1' unlimited thickness plate test

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