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Up Topic Welding Industry / Inspection & Qualification / Social Security Number Abuse/ Welding Inspection Reports
- - By awspartb (***) Date 08-12-2008 22:19
This is a serious issue that needs to be addressed.  I worked as welder over SIX YEARS AGO and just got a letter in the mail today from a Fortune 500 company that says my SSN was "improperly shared with the Business Manager" of a Union that I was NOT a member of.  The union wasn't even the same trade I was in!

This must be huge as many people are getting these letters.  We are being offered free credit checks.......wow.

The use of SSN as a welder ID needs to be STOPPED!  I've been on union jobs where we were told to pass around a sheet and write our name, address, and SSN .........with dozens and even hundreds of names on it for anyone to see!  I could have written down a dozen or more names and SS numbers when this paper was left on my table during orientation and I'm just a hired hand welder!

Horrible practice that is leaving many people open to legal action.  Comments apprecitated.
Parent - - By dbigkahunna (****) Date 08-12-2008 22:27
I got into a disagreement with a QC manager who was developing a database of all welders working for my former employer. There were over 400 welders working for this company. The database was for keeping up with continuity logs for welder certification required for Section IX 6 month requirement. I asked why the SS# was required when there are random number generator  programs what would do the same thing or heck just start with "1".
He told me they would have this database secured and there was no way the information could be breached.
Yea right. I had over 60 welders working under me and I flatly refused to give up the numbers. I told the QC manager he could get them from HR but I was not going to ask nor gather this information for him. I left shortly therafter, so I dont know what has happened with this.
But there is NO way this information can be secured.
BABRT's
Parent - By CWI555 (*****) Date 08-13-2008 11:21
There is no such thing as a "secure" database. The CIA has been hacked before, The chinese/japanese/russian/every other government in the world has been hacked, it's the epitome of arrogance or stupidity for one to say "there was no way the information could be breached". I agree whole heartedly that the use of SSN's needs to be changed, if not wholely illegal for these purposes.

Regards,
Gerald
Parent - - By jrw159 (*****) Date 08-12-2008 22:31
IMHO using anything more than the last 4 digits is not cool. And even at that it is a questionable practice.

jrw159
Parent - By jwright650 (*****) Date 08-13-2008 10:39
I went through all of our older welder's certs and edited them....They all now have the welder's intials and the last 4 digits, and all future certs were filled out with only that info in place of the SS#'s. I drafted a letter to "whom it may concern" explaining why some of the welder's certs have the SS# scratched out, all but the last 4 digits....I also initialled and dated the change on each cert. I would have rather used just the employee's clock#, but we had so many older certs that I hated to go back and redo all of them.

My view on this changed several years back when I went to visit the jobsite and was told to sit here and wait, "so and so" will be out in a minute or two. As I waited, I noticed that our company welding submittal was laying right there on this desk as you enter the job trailer....it was laying out where anybody sitting and waiting like I was could pick it up and browse through it....
Parent - - By pipewelder_1999 (****) Date 08-12-2008 22:37
Almost all employees use a unique employee number to associate an employee with thet employees information. Since in most cases, the welders certifications are ONLY good with that manufacturer, there is no need to identify the welder by something such as a SS#.  However one of the problems that I have ran into in the field when testing welders i s that they don't know their employee number and they have yet to be assigned one when testing welders prior to a job. I then have to come up with some way to convey the welder information.

Often times a unique ID consisting of something to identify the project that the person was tested on and then a sequence number. It is easier if a person has a unique employee number and admin people keep track of all of that.

In the state of MS the SS  number is on your drivers license.
Parent - - By flamin (**) Date 08-12-2008 23:04
When I took the CWI exam a couple months ago, the test packets had a space to write down your SSN. Several people commented about not wanting to write down their number, and so their AWS number was used in place of the SSN. Seems to me that AWS is aware of the concerns involved and are making an effort to change things on their end. I chose to use my memeber number over my SSN as well, and everything worked out just fine.

Jason
Parent - - By jon20013 (*****) Date 08-13-2008 11:53
Many states have, in recent years made the practice of using SSN illegal for purpose of ID.  When I was qualifying, I just used the welder's initials and if there were repeat initials in the company I followed with a random (normally sequential) number; JKL1, JKL2, etc....
Parent - By Pipeslayer (**) Date 08-13-2008 12:37
I have about 70 welders and we are switching from SSN's for weld stamps to employee ID's. I like this practice much better than SSN's. I have seen letter stamps such as AAA,AAB,and AAC.
Parent - By raptor34 (**) Date 08-13-2008 22:33
I ran into a situation were a welder was in the country on a green card and didnt have a ssn, we used his first and last initial and the month and day he was born. I completely disagree with the practice of using a ssn to id a welder, even the last 4 digits should be illegal, but according to the ss administration the use of your ssn for private matters is a private affair and they dont regulate it.
Parent - - By Richard Cook (**) Date 08-13-2008 13:36
I remember reading on the SSN card "not to be used for identification". That held a lot of water didn't it.
Parent - - By jrw159 (*****) Date 08-13-2008 13:41
Where does it say that at? :-)

jrw159
Parent - - By Richard Cook (**) Date 08-13-2008 13:52
It was on my original SSN card. I don't know if it still is though I've had it for years
Parent - By jrw159 (*****) Date 08-13-2008 14:03
Just wondering because mine does not say that.

jrw159
Parent - By raptor34 (**) Date 08-13-2008 22:36
my daughters caed said private use is a private matter between the parties involved, but you are not required to give it to private parties and in most cases it is not even a requirement for goverments, the govenment must tell you upon request if it is optional or manditory.
Parent - - By jwright650 (*****) Date 08-13-2008 13:59
I just looked at the original SS card that was issued to me many moons ago and it only has instructions when and if the card is stolen or lost on the back and on the front, nothing but my SS# and under that number, it says that this number has been established for, then it has my name, and under that it has a place for my signature.
Parent - - By jrw159 (*****) Date 08-13-2008 14:02
Yeah, mine too. Mine is the original issued to me.  :-)

jrw159
Parent - - By jwright650 (*****) Date 08-13-2008 14:05
Maybe we are just too old to have a new enough card for ours to say that......LOL
Parent - - By jrw159 (*****) Date 08-13-2008 14:06
Could be. The music that I listened to as a kid is now considered "Classic Rock" LOL

jrw159
Parent - By hogan (****) Date 08-13-2008 14:26
I remember the one I received in the 70's had that wording on it. I'll have to dig it up.
Parent - By jwright650 (*****) Date 08-13-2008 14:46
...or maybe I'm too young....I just checked Richard's bio and he's older than me by a few years.
Parent - - By CWI555 (*****) Date 08-13-2008 15:31
I am just waiting for the archaic rock definition to come out.
Parent - By jwright650 (*****) Date 08-13-2008 15:38
LOL...gracious! you're old.....LOL
Parent - By jrw159 (*****) Date 08-13-2008 15:40
ROTFL!!! :-)

jrw159
Parent - By Duke (***) Date 08-14-2008 01:40
Wait till its Oldies.
Parent - - By 522029 (***) Date 08-13-2008 22:30
The "old" ss cards did say   NOT FOR IDENTIFICATION   across the front.  My original card was obtained around 1965. 
I recently had to obtain a replacement card and that wording is not on the new card.

Griff
Parent - By awspartb (***) Date 08-13-2008 23:16
I'd like AWS to issue a statement on this outdated policy of using SSN's for Welder ID.

Nobody should have to use an SSN as a welder ID in the year 2008!
Parent - - By ctacker (****) Date 08-13-2008 23:26
Got my original card from '64. i have it cut on top of the columns and arch, and laminated, before they said you cant laminate them. it doesn't say anything about identification on it!
Parent - - By 803056 (*****) Date 08-14-2008 02:04
If you visit the SS website, it will tell you that you do not have to give your SSN to anyone other than your employer so they can collect the appropriate SS tax and credit it toward your SS account. They are not permitted to use the number for any other purpose. There is no legal requirement for you to give it out to anyone that requests it unless it is for taxation purposes.

I haven't given my SSN to anyone for many years, not even my doctor's office. I had to fill out a form the other day when I visited his office. I drew a line through the blank for the SSN. When I work for a client and have to fill out the forms for the IRS, I use my federal employer number. No more SSNs.

Welder Qualification Test Reports; I use either their employee number or their driver's license number.

Best regards - Al
Parent - - By jrw159 (*****) Date 08-14-2008 03:04
DL # is a good way to go, IMHO.

jrw159
Parent - - By ctacker (****) Date 08-14-2008 13:49
Except, I have known alot of welders with no DL.
Parent - By jrw159 (*****) Date 08-14-2008 16:35
LOL this is true! :-)

jrw159
Parent - By jrw159 (*****) Date 08-14-2008 20:24
Government issued ID cards would work. Isn't it a law to have some form of ID?

jrw159
Parent - By awspartb (***) Date 08-14-2008 20:24
Drivers License is a BAD IDEA.  These can be used to obtain an SSN or credit card also. You need a drivers license to open a BANK ACCOUNT in most states.........see where I'm going with this? There is no reason ANY government ID should be used for WELDER ID.
Parent - - By ssbn727 (*****) Date 08-17-2008 16:35
I agree with you Al!

Just to add what you've so eloquently described... There is also a penalty under Federal law that can be given to anyone who refuses to provide any services to any individual who refuses to fork over their SSN, and use the number for anything other than taxation purposes!!! The minimum amount is $100.00 + one can sue for punitive damages separately but, one has to be able prove it!

Respectfully,
Henry 
Parent - By 803056 (*****) Date 08-17-2008 20:44
Hello Henry;

It's good to hear from you!

Best regards - Al
Parent - By HgTX (***) Date 08-14-2008 15:31
Our blood center uses the SSN as an donor ID number.  I'm sure they have *so* much better security for their database than Fortune 500 companies...

Hg
Parent - - By aevald (*****) Date 08-14-2008 15:56
Hello awspartb, in my area they used to use SS #'s for student identification purposes and the state structural welder system used to use them for identification on certification applications. Neither of these practices have continued, the only current requirement for a SS #'s that I have run into is for applications of students for federal financial aid. Best regards, Allan
Parent - By awspartb (***) Date 08-14-2008 20:19
I'm so sick of giving every teenager at the doctors office, traveling welder inpsector, etc my SSN.
It ends today as I will no longer give my SSN to anyone.  If this practice of using SSN's for welding certs continues, it will certainly lead to litigation. 

By the way, what I thought was a flawless credit report has a serious blemish on it that I was not aware of.
It took place during the time stated on the letter I got.  I'm now disputing it as I have no idea what it was for but it states it was turned over to a lawyer for collection and I've never heard a single word about it.  It's a 4 figure number.
Up Topic Welding Industry / Inspection & Qualification / Social Security Number Abuse/ Welding Inspection Reports

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