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Up Topic Welding Industry / Technical Discussions / no root penetration on sch.40 carbon steel pipe.why?
- - By waps75 (*) Date 08-18-2008 02:30
Hi,gentlemen.I'm confused.should 6" carbon steel sch 40 pipes,transporting alcohol (glycol) be welded using (SMAW)(6010&7018)with no root penetration or in some cases partial penetration of the root? (no root gap used)That's what I saw on my job site yesterday.A contractor doing that job.As a certified welder(D1.1.and 6G pipe) I intend to question that this week. A WPS is not present.What problems may arise from this practice of the contractor? Your advice please.
Parent - By Johnyutah (**) Date 08-18-2008 03:42
I don't know what process should be used thats what the engineers are for I just do as I'm told but two thoughts for you. One he should just not be doing the work in the first place which is probably the answer if he can't get an even root pass and no root gap is a little strange as well. Second perhaps the welder is not very experienced and was told to keep it clean inside and either dose not have a tig rig or know how to use the (GTAW) process for his root. Again I'm sure he just is out of his league but it needs to be done right and in my opinion you should question what's going on there.
Parent - - By Lawrence (*****) Date 08-18-2008 04:03
Glycol and Alcohol are two different things.

Nonetheless..... D1.1 is a structural code and not a pipe code, if the pipe is carrying stuff D1 is probably the wrong choice... But even this doesn't matter much if there is no WPS on site.

Fluid transport pipe is welded with 6010/7018 regularly so that's not such a big deal.

What exactly is your roll on that jobsite?... Knowing this will allow responses with better perspective.

Welder?

QA?

Inspector?

Just passin thru?

Tell us more
Parent - - By G.S.Crisi (****) Date 08-19-2008 00:05
Lawrence,
let a chemical engineer make a slight correction.
When people (all of us) say "alcohol", we're referring to ethyl alcohol, chemical formula CH3-CH2OH.
From a strictly chemical point of view, however, glycol (chemical formula CH2OH - CH2OH) is also an alcohol, because it contains two alcoholic groups. An alcoholic group's formula is - CH2OH.
From a corrosion point of view, their behavior is similar. 
But from a "daily language" point of view you're right, for the word "alcohol", all over the world, stands for ethyl alcohol.
Giovanni S. Crisi    
Parent - - By Lawrence (*****) Date 08-19-2008 04:23
Thanks for the correction Prof. Crisi.

When I think Glycol I think anti-freeze and non-flammable

When I think Alohol I think about flammable liquids....

But I was wrong
Parent - By Bill M (***) Date 08-28-2008 16:39
Now when I think alchohol..."Bacardi" come to mind emmediately!
Parent - - By waps75 (*) Date 08-20-2008 22:47
my role was of a CERTIFIED WELDER who was just passing through and observed this pipe job in progress.Naturally, I must take a peep.It is so pleasing to the eyes and heart to see pipes being rooted evenly and smoothly,but on a visual examination I found no root gap being used,little or no penetration as a result,blow holes and icecles hanging inside the pipe.Now,if you want a clean root, we usually use TIG with 70s2 wire,then 7018 for fill and cap,as we did with some (Ammonia) pipes.but what I saw was distasteful.It looked like the welder don't have a clue of the nature of the job or simply can't weld pipe.I intend to put this to management to draft up a WPS to be used by all contractors doing any welding at our beer factory.
Parent - - By dbigkahunna (****) Date 08-21-2008 22:22
Are you sure the line was for alochol not black liquor or waste/grey water?
These lines are low pressure and generaly all that is required is a visual and a hydro. It does not take much of a weld to hold 150 psi. 
You would not want this in high pressure, but low pressure minimal consequence lines you get into fitness for service. Do you want to pay $$$ to have a line that will withstand 2000 psi at 400 degrees when you need one to hold 10 psi at 60?
BABRT's
Parent - By waps75 (*) Date 08-27-2008 19:00
These lines will be carrying alcohol to three (3) 33,000 hls beer tanks for refridgeration .They will be installed soon.
Up Topic Welding Industry / Technical Discussions / no root penetration on sch.40 carbon steel pipe.why?

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