Welder Certification by CWI/SCWI

Date 01-30-2003 19:49

I am trying to clarify a CWI /SCWI performing a Welder Qualification Test. Any help would be appreciated. All AWS Code References to ASW D1.1:2000 (UNO)

1. Part “C” of Section 4.19 requires conformance to Table 4.9. This table lists and requires NDT and Destructive tests to be performed based on Type of Test Weld, material, etc., noting a Visual Inspection must be performed per Section 4.8.1 prior to NDT and/or Destructive testing. This is addressed further in the Commentary Section C4.8.2 as a cost savings issue to determine if welds meet certain criteria prior to Destructive and Non-Destructive Testing.

2. A WPS is required for testing per Section 4.21 with essential variable requirements as listed in Section 4.7 and referenced to Table 4.5.

3. Section 4.30 Methods of Testing…. Lists Visual Inspection per Section 4.8.1 for acceptance criteria, and subsequent sections list other methods of testing.

4. Section G4.2 of AWS QC7-93 Supplement G allows the employer to provide written acceptance criteria to the Testing Facility for evaluating the welders performance. IE Visual Test only.

My specific questions are as follows:

1. If a CWI/SCWI witnesses the welding of a Test Plate, all per conformance requirements, is just a visual inspection per 4.8 required to certify the Welder to AWS D1.1 standards.

2. If #1 is correct, is this information sent to AWS Q&C for record keeping purposes.

3. If the welder presents the above documentation to an inspector without proof of some form of Maintenance of Certification within a (6) month period, what action should the inspector take to verify the welder’s qualification. A retest or just visual with production welding?

D1.1 seems confusing on whether a Welder Certification by a CWI/SCWI by visual inspection only is sufficient (at least to me). I have seen CWI’s watch a welder weld test plates in the 3G&4G positions, without a WPS or testing beyond visual and provide certification documentation to the welder/employer, which is accepted as AWS Certification Any help in this matter would be greatly appreciated.

Thanks,

Robert

By pipewelder_1999 (****)

Date 01-30-2003 22:50

1) NO There is no allowance for certification of a welder by visual only. However if a welder is already certified, and is observed welding with a process, his original certification could be updated.

2) Don't know

3) Can't answer

Sorry I couldn't be more help. NOTE that D1.1 does not require a CWI. Also, Table 4.10 lists the required inspections. The sub paragraphs referenced in 4.19 just refer to the details of the individual test requirements.

Have a nice day

G Austin
http://www.weldinginspectionsvcs.com

By jwright650 (*****)

Date 01-30-2003 23:44

1. Welder Qualification - use Table 4.9 to see the number of and type of specimens and range of thicknesses and diameter qualified. Also see Table 4.8 for the Welder qualification-production welding positions qualified by plate,pipe, and box tube tests. Note that a CWI/SCWI must stamp the welder's qualification record.

2. The test records are kept in your files to show proof of welder qualifications and must be accompanied by records to show the welder has met paragraph 4.1.2 and paragraph 4.1.3.

3. First, what inspector are you refering to? If you read paragraph 4.1.2.1, it states that proper documentation must be kept. Now, I think if he can't produce properly documented evidence he must retest just like if he had let it run out. Note that this evidence is for the employer so they can prove that his/her qualifications are still good. When we are awarded a new job I have to submit all our welder's qualifications out for approval. If they are rejected, they must retest to satisfy the approver, or show properly documented evidence to back up the qualifcations. Here's where those records will come in handy. I have found through the school of hard knocks to test every welder when he/she is hired, even if he comes to me with papers in hand. This policy will stop alot of questions from the approver.

As for the WPS's you mentioned, if you can use the prequalified joints in Section 3, you can waive the testing and simply mark a check in the prequalified box on your WPS, if not, you must test your WPS's according to Section 4 to qualify them by testing and keep the records on file and submit them for approval when asked.

I hope I haven't rambled too much and answered your concerns properly.
If anyone has something to add, please do, I'm certain I've left something out.
Hope this helps,
John Wright

Ps, Im referring to an old 98 D1.1, so the sections or paragraphs and tables may have been numbered differently in later editions. All I had at the time of this response was an old 98 model. My 2002 is at work on my desk.

By jwright650 (*****)

Date 01-31-2003 12:53

1.) Table 4.9 is now Table 4.10, Table 4.8 is now Table 4.9 in the 2002 code.

2.) The paragraphs are still as mentioned above.

I wish they had not revised the numbering of these Tables like they did, it is confusing if everyone isn't in the same year book. I have several years worth of these code books in various places(ie. home,office, car, camper, etc...) and I'll pick up the one that is handy at the time.

Hope I didn't confuse anyone with the old code book.
John Wright

Gerald,
You might be right about the qualification of welders without a CWI present, I couldn't find it spelled out in the D1.1 code. I had always just heard that a CWI must witness and seal the document. All the one's I've seen were stamped by a CWI and I drew conclusions with out seeing it in black and white.
QC1:96 paragraph 4.2.5.1 merely states that witnessing testing of welders or supervising these activities performed by outside agencies is one of the duties of a CWI.(actual duties are to be spelled out by the employer - paragraph 4.2)
QC1:96 paragraph 4.2.8.1 also states that a CWI prepares reports and verifies records of WPS's, WPQR's, welder qualifications, and control of welding materials and the results are maintained.

Now that we're all confused, I'll stop typing.
John Wright

By rpoche

Date 02-01-2003 21:14

Pipewelder & Jwright thanks for your replys.

I have always felt the code was plain on the Certification requirements for Welders – which includes bend tests and/or RT along with VT. I believe the CWI’s certifying with visual only are missing something in the translation.

If the welder was the welder on a WPS/PQR which passed, he is qualified for that procedure, but according to Section 4 this would have also required bend/RT etc. to qualify.

JW,

The Inspector I was referring to in question #3 was shop or field inspectors required by Job Spec’s. We typically have to submit welder qualifications to them prior to welding.

The WPS I was speaking of was for the welder qualification test, which is a pre-qualified WPS.

Such a confusing matter.

Thanks againg.

By DGXL

Date 02-01-2003 23:44

Interesting topic. Based on your original post, I would interprete the D1.1:2000 code as follows:

1.) VT and mechanical testing (side bends if the "Test Plate" is a butt joint) are required for a WPQR. RT would be an option in lieu of the mechanical testing provided the backing dimensions complied with the code required dimensional properties. [Table 4.9]

2.) Why would the AWS require any information for your WPQ? Unless the welder is attempting to be qualified in accordance with the AWS Certified Welder Program by an AWS accredited testing facility in accordance with the AWS QC7 standard (you mentioned previously), there would not be any reason for involvment with the org. [AWS QC7-93, Section 3 in it's entirety]

3.) I don't think it is the inspector's job to do anything other than what is in his/her respective scope of work. The AWS QC1-96 denotes the inspector "verify" work, records, etc. It would be the welder or employers (the manufacturer/contractor) duty to provide records demonstrating continuous use of the process within the last 6 months. [4.1.1.1]
An inspector should not decide at this point wether VT is sufficient for re-qualification. That should be the decision of the Engineer or the Owner (end user).

I know of numerous cases where inspector's permit qualification without any NDT or mechanical testing. I have paperwork in my hand now denoting such activities. I will pursue this issue in the near future with the "test lab" and noted it as a finding during a recent audit. It is damaging to the entire industry when this type of activity engages.

With respect to your last post, if a welder qualified a WPS, retesting as a performance qualification would not be required for that particular welder.

I am currently having my own records (WPS/PQR/WPQR) probed which were generated for a client. So far, they (Engineer, QC agency, etc.) have not found anything to complain about. I welcome the critque.