All,
I am a safety mgr at a new job and I'm requesting that contractors be AWS certified to do structural welding. The maintenance folks here are looking at me like I have 3 heads. If that certification isn't widely understood or known, what other qualification would assure me that any/all welding that occurs on structures is done by a person who possesses some type of tested and validated skills? I thought D1.1 was the universal US certification.
Thanks.
You are obviously concerned about what happens around you.
I'm sure the MOST forum would applaud you if they could. The D1.1 is an industry standard for the welding of structural steel. It has been for years. What you are encountering is what inspectors encounter pretty much on a daily basis.
I'm sure the maitenance staff have no clue, but that's not their fault.
Keep pushing the issue and also explain LIABILITY to them.
Are you the safety mgr at a construction jobsite, fabricator's shop, or where?
If you are a safety mgr at a jobsite, are you the owner's or cm's safety manager?
Do the contract documents require AWS certified welders?
If this is a jobsite, and you are not the owner's or cm's safety manager, or the contract docs do not require AWS certified welders, I would venture to say you will be hard pressed to enforce the certified welders idea.
Most contract docs require the shop and field to have AWS certified welders and the documentation to back that up. Even when the contract docs require testing, most EOR's will issue a variance if certificates of maintenance can be produced. We issue these semi-annually for the welders in our shop. Normally, though, these are requested by the EOR.
I guess my point is, I've had a variety of requests from safety managers (including OSHA), but I have never had one for the AWS docs on the welders.
Just a question to clarify: Are you asking the contractor to be AWS certified, or the welders to be AWS certified? If you are asking the contractor to be AWS certified, AWS does certify fabricators, as in their QA program, qualified personell, adequate experience, etc. But this program has just started, and only a few shops in the country have it. I don't even know what it is called, but have read about it recently. AISC certification for contractors/fabricators is much more common, and there should be shops in you area unless you are in a sparsely populated area. The AISC has a website lising all the certified shops and their certification levels.
If you are asking stictly about welder qualification, qualification to AWS D1.1 is the universally recognized qualification standard in the structural steel industry. Depending on your applications, another widely used certification standard is ASME Boiler & Pressure Vessel Code Section IX.
We are a manufacturing facility that makes atv, golf carts, etc. When we change a process, we hire someone to come in and "modify" some part of our structures. Sometimes this requires welding/bolting, etc. My question was, since this is structural welding, shouldn't I require the person welding it to be AWS certified? From a liability standpoint, seems like that would offer us some protection in that we made good faith attempts at having qualified people doing the job.
More clarification on welding in our plants. We have hoist attached to structures, we have process changes that occur and contactors will hang up a structure and weld it to another structure. Welders at companies I've worked for in the past have always told me to require AWS certified welders do any structural (non production) welding. Now my question is, what assurance do I have that they are competent to do this welding on structural members? If AWS certification is practically the only way to verify that minimal level of competency, then that's what I will require at our manufacturing facility. That's what I need your help/opinions on. We are trying to become a "best practice" workplace. I don't think this is best practice but minimal practice. Thanks for comments.
It looks as if you have the answer to your question and what I perceive as an attempt at putting together a “General Welding Specification” for your site. Good for you. In my opinion and from my experience, you are on the right track in attempting to reduce liability as DGXL mentioned and the appropriate assumption of weld quality responsibility to the appropriate parties (company employees and contractors) regardless if it's maintenance or new construction.
I would also suggest you’re looking for something such as this but not necessarily in this order or shortness-
1. Welding shall be performed by a qualified welder in accordance with a qualified welding procedure.
2. Welding procedures and welders shall be qualified in accordance with the requirements of the governing design code, standard, or regulations prior to the stat of welding.
3. Unless otherwise specified, all fabrication shall comply with the requirements, of the latest edition, of the design code and the appropriate welding code, standard or regulations that are required within the design code.
4. This specification shall apply to the welding of all structural steel (add any other you want). These requirements apply to field and shop welding performed by company and contractor welders.
In addition, I’d suggest that if your company doesn’t have any construction design specifications (AISC, ASME, etc.), add the ones that pertain to welding in the body of the specification you’re building
To add to what has been stated already,
The AISC(American Institute for Steel Construction) mandates that welders welding on structural steel should do so per the AWS D1.1 structural code. Also that all bolting is done per RCSC(Research Counsil on Structural Connections).
Usually, the job has specifications, and these specs. will almost always refer to having an AISC certified fabricator(and there are various levels of certification) and welding done per AWS D1.1. Meaning all welding personnel have to be certified in accordance with Section 4 of D1.1, and all Inspection done per Section 6 of D1.1.
If we knew more about your particular situation and who in this situation you are representing, we could offer more (or better) advise.
John Wright
It sounds like it might be a good idea to consult with a structural engineer and possibly your insurance carrier regarding this matter especially if it concerns altering the structural members of your facility in any way. Load calculations on beams and columns might need to be done beforehand.
Hope this helps.
Brian Maas
Before I make my next post, I would like to inquire to all users of the forum (please, lets not get into the semantics of who specifically):
1.) How many would want the welders who built your childs school where they sit 8 hours a day to have been built by qualified welders?
2.) How many would want the welders qualified who built your home?
3.) Your place of worship?
4.) The hospital your relative is in?
I think the point was made; If it was you who were the owner of the building or structure and it failed catostrophically, would you not want traceability and accountability of any contractor/tradesman?
I'm sure the concerned jurisdiction of where SC's project is - would be.
From your posts so far, I take it that you want to require certification for the welders who build your jigs and handling equipment. Not sure if you indicated your production welders are certified to a code or not, but it wouldn't change my opinion. I'm also thinking that your bosses must have reviewed your resume', credentials, and references before hiring you, to be sure you could do the job. Why wouldn't it be the same maintenance welders?
A lot of posts have mentioned liability, insurance carriers, and such which is very good advice to consider. I think what you are running into is the same story heard at many plants..."if the welds are not directly incorporated into your final product, why worry about them? Afterall, John Q. Public won't care either way and we can save money". But I think you are right to be concerned. Your fellow employees certainly should receive the same consideration as John Q. Public receives. Further, your company's profitability will increase if it doesn't have injuries to pay for. But you already know all this or else you wouldn't have asked the question.
You might not be required to certify maintenance welders but it really is a good idea to do so. D1.1 is a good all around code to qualify to but there are others that could be applied. If you can't convince your superiors on certification, then you should at least try to get the hoist and jigs welds inspected, maybe ranking all welds by the level of risk to employees in the event of failure.
You might also put together an estimate of the cost of qualification. Maybe your superiors are picturing a much higher cost than it actually would be.
I hope it all works out well for you
CHGuilford
Often nobody considers welder qualifications important until their is a failure. Years ago I had a crew in a metal processing plant for a couple of years doing many different jobs and it was never brought up, not even when my company was hired, what qualifications my men held. One weekend a 25 ton crane fell and killed the operator. It was not a weld failure, but on Monday when we came in, we all had to take a 3 and 4G test. You are right to question the qualifications of any contractor. Now I routinely take tests for new customers. I recently started welding for the local gas company as a contractor, the first thing they said to me on the phone was, "Of course you and your welders will have to come down and take our test first." If I did not take the tests, I would not weld for them. Any contractor who is uncooperative in taking a weld test, should be given the utmost scrutiny.
Mike Sherman
Shermans Welding
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