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Up Topic Welding Industry / Technical Discussions / Why all the additional information?
- - By aevald (*****) Date 09-29-2008 19:14
Hello everyone, I believe many of you out there who post questions or answer posts with information probably wonder about many of the answers that show up. For myself personally, it is hard to judge where the poster might be with his/her level of experience, particularly if they are new to the forum. Where I'm going with this is to say that when the various subjects are discussed here I believe everyone learns something, if they care to take an interest in it, I know that I certainly do. I would also hope that no one gets too annoyed when their questions get covered from A to Z, meaning basic to advanced. In those instances, anyone who doesn't know about the subject does probably learn more than the original poster(s) who came up with the question, for them(the original posters), I would hope that they could appreciate their contributions to the education of others.
     Since it has been some time since I signed up to participate here I can't remember if there was any sort of introduction to the forum that might explain some of the mechanics or ettiquette that tend to prevail on "our" site(meaning all of us who presently are members). If not, I do believe that it would be helpful to come up with some sort of preface for folks who have recently joined or anyone who will join in the future. In certain instances I do believe that individuals would have had a much better experience here if something like this was in place. These are just a few thoughts that have been bouncing around in the old noggen for a while. Best regards, to everyone, Allan
Parent - - By bozaktwo1 (***) Date 09-30-2008 16:56
Or in other words, I should introduce myself as having spent 20+ years welding before I ask what a WPS is?  :)

Many a post has died under the relentless delete key, because I really didn't want to confuse anyone.  I try to refrain from adding to a thread which has already been addressed by some folks, such as Allan, Hank, Jon, etc., since you folks are consistently thorough in your solutions.  Occasionally I'll take something on just because I do have some real world experience, and try never to overstep the bounds of that knowledge.  What I find is that people tend to get into little chat room fights with one another, and when the air begins to lend itself to derogatory passages I usually stop reading that particular post, as any meaningful knowledge within is now diluted by egotistical stupidity.  Knowledge from all quarters has its value; however as proved out in the wikipedia project, when you allow everyone to play it's difficult to stand out, and the student has a more difficult task ahead to excavate the required knowledge from the available data.  With this in mind, if I feel I am right about something then I will state my opinion and have done with it.  Hopefully no one will disagree with me so vehemently that I have to endure a name-calling.  (Not that anyone here can call me anything not already said ;).) 

As far as an introduction concerning forum etiquette; I believe the BBS Disclaimer and Rules notice at the top of each header does quite well.  Maybe not?

My $.02...$2.00 adjusted for inflation.
Parent - - By aevald (*****) Date 09-30-2008 18:26 Edited 09-30-2008 20:55
Hello Curt, I do see where you are coming from and I hadn't considered that point of view. I don't believe anyone has to pre-qualify their qualifications or their background. I was mainly referring to times when someone posts a question, others answer it based on a range of points of view, from the basic to the most advanced. When this happens some individuals do appear to feel as though their intelligence has been insulted, yet they often don't consider that those answering may not have the benefit of knowing the posters situation fully. The other point that you bring up regarding the levels and abilities of individuals to allow others their own points of view is certainly something that no rules or supposedly understood guidelines will probably fix. As you pointed out and I haven't read lately, the BBS disclaimer and rules notice probably does give a good overview of how this site is governed. I can honestly say that I have been ignorant of reading the content of those disclaimers(I probably better do that). I guess I have been on here long enough that I have developed my own sense of what I consider acceptable and unacceptable and have been schooled a time or two when I haven't done it right. I often consider my belief that this site doesn't cost anything but my time and if I come away from here better informed and having exercised my grey-matter to remind me of things that have been hidden away upstairs it has been worth it. Not to mention being allowed to develop friendships and trust with others who have similar thoughts and knowledge in areas that I do not. Thank you for your thoughts and points. I hope others will take a moment to add their $.02....or as you put it, $2.00 adjusted per inflation. Appreciate the response, Curt. Best regards, Allan
Parent - - By ctacker (****) Date 09-30-2008 19:45
Good post Allen,
I have limited experiance as A CWI, and as a result I Don't answer alot of the questions asked! I do however try to answer to the best of my limited ability. I learn something everyday, and try looking up answers in the codebook if time allows. This is the greatest forum on earth(welding related).
I too may make a mistake and don't like being called an idiot. :)
I come here to learn and if A mistake is made, I wish to be corrected without feeling like an idiot!

My 1.00 (apprentice level, adjusted for inflation!)
Parent - - By aevald (*****) Date 09-30-2008 22:07
Hello Carl, thanks for contributing your thoughts. My new teaching partner is also a relatively new CWI, unfortunately we don't have anyone in our "backyard" to answer all of the questions and other things that come up when he is considering his new possible duties. I put it into those terms based on this basic scenario: he has taken and passed his CWI, now he is trying to figure out what exactly that means in the "hands on" sense. If you have a mentor who is readily available, they can help you out with how to properly fill out all of the various forms and documents that can be required of the title, if you don't, how do you go about insuring that you haven't made a mistake, or have included everything that you really need to? When you have that borderline interpretation of discontinuities or other issues with passing/failing a weld specimen or other inspection related issues on weldments or other items requiring inspection, where's the line? Having listened to various interpretation issues on the forum here it seems somewhat evident that there aren't black and white lines of delineation, many have questions on these interpretation issues. For the new guys, this would seem a bit daunting by my estimation. All of you out there that have been at this for years have certainly enlightened myself and many others about many of these issues. So, I know that I will continue to listen, evaluate, and learn as much as I can on this topic. 
     As to my partner, he is trying to get tied in with one of the inspectors that he dealt with in industry when he was still working full-time out there. Fortunately, this particular inspector has welcomed his interest and has begun to help him with some of the very issues that I included above. The two of them have already shared some work contacts and have been mutually helpful to one another. Look forward to more from you Carl and others. Best regards, Allan
Parent - By ctacker (****) Date 09-30-2008 22:26
Allen,
I Know exactly the feeling, I worked in AZ for close to 30 years, I came to WA and took my exam and being the only CWI in my company I have many unaswered questions. I do have 1 engineer at my disposal to ask questions. BUT he studied ASME and calls me for answers when he works to D1.1, I can only hope I give him the right help.
I was working for my employer when I took my exam, and for some reason, when I passed, I am now the CWI,Weld Engineer and whatever else they need at the time. Passing my CWI didn't make me all that overnight. I still only know as much as I did. but reading here gives me alot more confidence in my decisions. without the Forum, I would never make it in my current position.

Regards, Carl
Parent - - By jwright650 (*****) Date 09-30-2008 21:07
Allan,
I also find it difficult to judge someone's knowledge by a very broad question that gets flung out onto the forum, so at times i could see that someone may get offended by starting with the basic answers and working up....generally I feel that with a very broad question that I don't have the time to sit and type out all of the possible answers, so the question may go unanswered until others have primed the OP to gather more information so it narrows down the OP's question quite a bit. This isn't because I don't feel the OP's question isn't important, I as many of the other forum participants, work for an employer and check in on the forum in between projects and inspection duties. This doesn't afford me the time to be able to answer those broad questions like I used to try to tackle in the past....plus, I need to read all of the postings to keep some sort of an eye on what is taking place in here.

I'm relieved to see others jump in and do such a great job fielding these questions, especially on my busy days :-)

Also ross had encouraged the forum users to add some bio info(all of your qualifications and titles) into their signatures to help with this. I felt awkward, almost like I would be bragging, so I haven't filled my signature with any info other than my name.

For those who do not know me, I'll post this here just once.....

I am the quality control manager / safety manager for a structural steel fabricator here in Virginia. I have been a CWI since Mar of 2000, I am company certified Level II in MT, PT, and UT, I am also certified ASNT ACCP VTII, I also have been certified as a NACE CIP 1 coating inspector. I have been in the structural steel business for 25 years, all with this one company where I am employed currently. Started out here running errands and operated an ammonia developer blueprint machine, moved up through the company into programming cnc type equipment for the shop, then into engineering for several years as a structural detailer, then back to the shop where i started getting involved with inspection and NDE, went on to get certified in all of the things listed above. Worked with my local AWS Section 179 and helped out where I could. And I was approached by the forum's admin awhile back to become one of the forum's moderators.

That is a quick overlook of my work experience in regards to all things welding....
Parent - - By aevald (*****) Date 09-30-2008 21:46
Hello John, I am on here "monitoring" sometimes more than I feel that I should be. At the same time being exposed to such a wide variety of topics, information, etc. does give me the opportunity to formulate better approaches for dealing with student questions and curiosities as well as satisfying my own questions and interests. Much of the theory that is present in the welding trades lack tangible evidence in many book forms, many of the folks that post to this site are in the middle of and experiencing the very theory that is often a topic in our classrooms. Often times I can pull information from responses, use the pictures or diagrams, and essentially give the theory an applied dimension. Something else that tends to jump out is the differences in geographical areas, depending upon the areas of industry, applications, and other things, the welding that takes place can have some pretty pronounced differences. Seeing, hearing, or otherwise being exposed to the ins and outs of different facets of welding, fabrication, engineering, inspection, etc., give all of us a leg-up as we consider what our next steps could possibly bring us.
     I would imagine myself and many others out there do gain a certain amount of satisfaction when we follow a particular topic and it's conclusions and answers align with the ones that we have been thinking about while we are following them. I know that myself and likely many others, follow a particular thread and have points that we consider posting, yet for whatever reason we might be hesitant. I'm getting a little bit better about taking the plunge and taking my licks if I'm wrong when I do take the chance. I would rather take a little bit of flack and learn the answer than remain silent and lose out on the opportunity for knowledge. I appreciate your contributions and others greatly and will continue to support this forum for the tremendous resource that it is. Best regards, Allan
Parent - - By 803056 (*****) Date 10-01-2008 02:29
To respond or to skip to the next thread, that is the question we all have to ask ourselves.

Like many, I like to see the direction in which the thread is going and either lend support to one or more of the responses or possibly shoot a few holes in a response that seems to be going astray. Not to say that I have all the answers, but as is the case with many regular participants, I have more than a couple of years of experience to rely upon.

It doesn't take long to recognize the value of some responses written by those participants that have proven themselves time and time again. Then there are the few that we  simply read with a grain of salt. All in all, there is a treasure trove of useful information available here in the Forum, even if it may lack some technical or political "correctness".

What amazes me is how I miss reading responses from our "regulars" when, for some reason, they are silent for several days.

I like to offer accolades when credit is in order. There are so many "regulars" that respond to inquiries and I wonder if they shouldn't be hard at work doing those chores assigned by their employers. Thank the Good Lord they take time out of their busy days and answer so many of the questions posted in the Forum.

So, to individuals like Allan, John, Stephan, Scott, Gerald, and the rest of you (far too many to think of and list at the moment), my hearty thanks for a job well done.

Best regards - Al
Parent - - By aevald (*****) Date 10-01-2008 04:52
Hello Al, as usual you have included a very well written and thought out response to describe additional points of interest and importance to this topic. I share in your respect for the many who take time to provide the various information and guidance that is available here. I could certainly list a number of individuals who are invaluable contributors and make life easier for a great many others, yourself included. I look forward to the growth of that group of folks who make up the forum. In my relatively short time of involvement here I have certainly seen many grace the list of "regulars", I don't see that coming to an end any time soon. Appreciate the thoughts. Best regards, Allan
Parent - - By jon20013 (*****) Date 10-01-2008 05:06
Gents, as you've noticed, I added my Committee involvement to my signature line... this was definatey not done for "bragging" purposes, but rather to help encourage our members to join a volunteer committee. 

I'm far from the world's smartest welding engineer, but my years of volunteer committee work has allowed me to meet, and opened the doors to access those who are among the best of the best. 

That said, AWS Committee's are ALWAYS seeking new blood, I openly encourage our member's to make inquiries about joining the volunteer ranks, it's not hard work and the benefits last a lifetime!
Parent - - By aevald (*****) Date 10-01-2008 06:09
Hello Jon, good to hear from you. Are you still abroad? If so, I hope all is going well and you're enjoying yourself as well as getting some work done. As may rarely be said to those who serve on all of the various committees, many thanks. It is very easy to take for granted the many things that go on behind the scenes of any organization, so my hat is off to all of those who make things happen, way more attention is paid to something when it goes wrong than when it goes right. I do believe that much more goes right with AWS than the other way around. Glad to hear from you and thanks for your comments. Best regards, Allan
Parent - - By jon20013 (*****) Date 10-01-2008 06:14
Allan, thanks!  I may say the same for all of the educator's, such as yourself out there; you guy's are the very foundation of our future!

I am still in Kazakhstan and due to an illness in my wife's family, she has moved home to New Zealand... I made my first flight there from here last month... what a long, long trip; 22 hours in the air, 13 hours in transit, 5 countries!!!  That said, I'll continue all of my future home leaves to be with her until she returns to our home in the states, which we're speculating to be March 2009.
Parent - By aevald (*****) Date 10-01-2008 06:48
Hello again Jon, sounds pretty grueling. Haven't done any flights or trips like that in many years. You guys really need to settle down, all of those cross-world treks can be really hard on a person, LOL. Best regards, Allan
Parent - By Metarinka (****) Date 10-01-2008 16:36
I wasn't aware of people getting mad over the range of responses.  I chime in if I think I have something constructive (no matter the technical level) that hasn't already been said. I certainly value all of the very techhnical posts, being a welding engineer myself it's just more information to file away that will be useful some day.

I think I'm a relative new commer having only started posting here consistently about 4 months ago
In case anyone doesn't know I'm in my final year of a welding engineering program at Penn college of Technology, I already have a A.A in welding and fabrication as well as several years of experience in GTAW and GMAW sheet metal welding and general fabrication. My minor is in manufacturing engineering and I've done a decent amount of CNC and robotics work too.

I post here and read here to apply things to my classroom training, when I answer a questions it's probably because I've been asked it before on a test or it's a good way to strengthen the knowledge I already have.
Parent - By yorkiepap (***) Date 10-01-2008 18:19
Hey Allan,
I find your topic to be quite valid and also would like to see the OP, at least, give a brief summary of their experience so as to determine the route the responses will track. I only post here on occasion anymore, if I can add a positive/helpful/informative response, since I won't engage in mindless diatribe in pursuit of a diamond. I believe you previously initiated a topic to allow the newer members to view the members here who have provided their level of experiences in all the processes of welding & manufacturing. A simple search would answer a lot of questions that many have and they apparently won't spend a few minutes just to seek those answers. Those of we seasoned weldors never hesitate to provide the level of expertise to hopefully solve an issue or problem. Even after 45 yrs in the arena, I still learn, and come here for an answer or path to get to my destination of query, and attempt to offer sound solutions thru experience. I believe the long-standing members here who always had the great responses in providing useful information & guidance, have also reduced their input because of the continual off-tangent responses to vainly grasp for a diamond. I'm sure my response will frost a few, but I speak thru the experience of knowing a persons' nature by the semblance of vocabulary they use. And I am not alone with this observation.

Personally, I feel this forum is the premier site to obtain information regarding the multi-faceted arenas of welding, machining, design, and construction. It is the professionalism of those who offer their vast experiences to help the newbies & youngsters become better and better so they, too, become proficient & productive weldors. We are in the career that is the most promising future one can ask for with a continual demand for those who seek a good living. With that, the doors open to those who offer an employer a solid, honorable work ethic, and an indication they have integrity, will benefit the company that employs them, and will provide the company 8 hrs work for 8 hrs pay. Quite simple........   Denny
Parent - - By aevald (*****) Date 10-01-2008 19:07
Hello all, I've done a little more thinking, processing, and analyzing of responses and thoughts here(scary I know!). Addressing original posts just a bit more. I know that I do it all the time and likely many of you do too. You/I/we have a question or a thought that we would like to address, we formulate this question based on our thoughts and sometimes don't consider that someone else looking in isn't in the same mindset as we are. Once this question comes out it readily addresses our particular topic, but for others that don't have the benfit of reading our minds they would have to guess what our question really is. An example might go something like this: if I had a question about welding up a 6g pipe, included the information that the root would be GTAW, the fill and cap would be E7018 and started asking questions about passing this test and what it would qualify me for would that really be enough information to give a specific answer? Likely not. For one thing I didn't include diameter or schedule. I also didn't say whether this would be done to a pressure code or a structural code, I may have forgotten to include that this was stainless steel instead of carbon, there is any amount of additional information that I haven't included that could have a pretty significant importance to receiving an accurate reply. When I put the question out there I probably had it in my head that I only needed to know the parts that were in the original example, I may not have considered that everyone else may have also had a certain initial take on the question. The pipewelders would have probably related the limited information to pressure piping at first glance, the pilebucks that might see that would have possibly looked to the information based on their application for splicing pile(even though they would probably not be tigging the root), there could be any number of alternative interpretations for application, all the various ones being influenced by locality, industry, and the process familiarity of the responding individual. So, hence my point for just a little bit more attention, or possibly a step back and a review of questions by those seeking answers prior to posting them up. I hope that no one takes this as a criticism or a requirement for any sorts of change, it is however, a suggestion for maybe a little less confusion and some better responses to a lot of the questions, my logic, however twisted it might be, for improving satisfaction. Best regards, Allan
Parent - By ctacker (****) Date 10-01-2008 19:33
I'm Guilty!
Parent - - By Stephan (***) Date 10-04-2008 00:13 Edited 10-04-2008 07:43
Allan,

have flown over the responses to your excellent post!

Thus I hope that I have interpreted everything I read correctly. :-)

I have not that much to add since there are so great responses, so I beg your forgiveness!

But what I would like to add is:

"I truly love to read the posts of You, Al, Jon, Gerald, Lar, Jeff, Metarinka, Fredspoppy, NDTIII, Joe Kane, Giovanni, Henry, John Wright, Marty, jrw159, Shad, hogan, darren, Sith Lord Darth Jadus, Sourdough, Pipewelder1999, Ray,... and from all the others I have "forgotten" to list here since it is impossible to list them all!

I always enjoy to rest a few minutes here amongst all of you. And even though the geographical distance between the United States of America and Germany is not that little, I have never had the feeling to be that far separated from all of you great people!

This is "Welding"... it joins!

Best regards to you Allan and may God bless you all!
Stephan
Parent - - By aevald (*****) Date 10-04-2008 01:28
Hello Stephan, glad to see you've had some time to spend on the forum once again and thank you for your reply. It really is amazing to me and certainly convenient that we do have the "internet" to connect so many from so many different places. As you said, there are certainly geographical boundaries that separate all of us, yet due to the marvels of technology we are just a key-stroke away. I always have a sense of anticipation for all of the topics and questions that emerge on the AWS forum, every time that I click on a new post the possibility for expansion of my knowledge base comes into view, sometimes the post offers that opportunity very readily and sometimes it doesn't, yet the chance is still there and it is up to me whether I choose to act upon it or let it lie. Look forward to more of your insightful and educational participation and hope for you and your family that life is smiling upon all of you. Best regards, Allan  
Parent - By Stephan (***) Date 10-04-2008 07:47
Hello Allan,

thanks a lot for your very kind and - as usually- wise reply!

I have edited my yesterday's response by having added two more people who are impressing me every time I read their posts.

Hmmm... apparently it was as I have supposed.

The list might be infinetly continued when considering all the great people here! :-)

All the best to you Allan,
Stephan
Up Topic Welding Industry / Technical Discussions / Why all the additional information?

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