That is 80 hours (roughly) or 7-12's. I know there are guys (young) who can keep up that pace. But if you are paying that kind of change for those hours, your productivity is dropping every day. After 4 weeks you are either going to be dropping inches, quality is dropping or you (as the contractor) is getting hosed.
You say consumables is less than $150 a week that is a box of rods and fuel. When estimating on plate I figured $3-4 per welder per hour for consumables and that was 2 years ago. Rods, fuel, grinding disk, buffing wheels, etc have gone up so it is probably 5-6 per hour. This is for heavy plate, running 300 or 400 amp machines.
Taxes are will be 20-25% of the gross if you are playing by the rules and then you have at least 5-7% for overhead.
Working 7-12's for 52 weeks you would gross $240,240. But even superman cannot work that much. You may have guys on the payroll who clock that much time, but you are not getting a lot of production. Also, after working that much time the statistics show safety begins dropping.
Cactus has his accountant look at his numbers and should know what he is making and how much he and his men are working. If the production is meeting the schedule and the work is acceptable quality with a happy customer, then right on! And if you do not have to travel or can RV it then Brady would be a good gig. Steady work without tearing up your truck.
BABRT's
the bottom line is ( i ran the numbers) 55 x 12=660.00 a day 660 x 7= 4620.00a week paid weekly 4620.00 x 4= 18480 monthly 18480.00 x 12 = 221,760.00 yes you have to pay your onw taxes thats why you collect reciepts and buy toys even if you dont need it 1 day you will so you buy it at least i do i dont know any pipeliners that make over 200k a yr that even with the extras and with the p/l you are constanly moving from 1 job to the next wondering where your next job is or your next dollar is comming from i'll take the low paying rig yard over pl anyday and i work for myself set my own hours pretty much and dont have to answer to nobody dont have to worry about the union calling for a strike so what if the phone rings at 3am to go set a head the clock starts ticking when the phone rings there are days i have made 1,000 and there are days i made 500 but i'm always working and never have to worry about where the money is comming from and like you said pl is fast paced rig yards are not some would like it to be but they just arent cause you cant rush perfection
EDIT: 4620.00 X 4.3= 19866 X 12 = 238,392
As far as perfection goes Shad.....You're already there. :-)
Even though I don't know squat about pipeline work, I have learned from this very forum that many of those jobs, although paying very well, are never a "sure" thing, meaning you may go 90 days without getting paid & moving from job to job, gone for months at a time. For some, this lifestyle suits them & provides a living for their family they are OK with.
For those that pursue it, that's respectively, THEIR prerogative. I don't want to hear any negative BS on it either. To each their own.
But, from the sounds of it, Cactus' yard pays every week, the work isn't going away anytime soon & sounds pretty laid back from what I can tell. He sounds like a pretty fair & descent guy to work for & has an excellent reputation form regular, credible hands on the forum. Sure, you can make some big bucks on the pipeline, but I like the idea of going to the same place every day, working for a fair guy & not a frigging meth jacked, screaming nutjob & getting a check every week. Even if it pays less. A number of practical studies conducted involving employment have proven time & again, people will work someplace for less money than they could get going somewhere else to be content & happy. I believe this to be true.
Eating crap every day gets old, even if the money's real good. But, what do I know? S.W.
EDIT: GIVE IT A REST WITH THE FU*KING ONE RATING....I'M NOT BAGGING YOURS, LAY OFF MINE. IT'S SO FU*KING PETTY!
yes i agree steve my wife is in a job that she has to take crap from the owners everyday i told her last nite give me 3 more weeks and then you can walk out the door
I'm far from perfect but thank you for the compliment I'm just me tuff as nails and dont take nothing sitting down i think i'e shown this but now i just gotta get out there and back it up just look out cause i'm comming
Every pipeline I ever worked on Friday was payday. The company may get a Saturday but 2 in a row and they will be looking for a new spread. One guys check does not cash and you risk having a wobble by the whole mob!
BABRT's
I hear some guys talk about getting paid 90 day out. What does that mean? I have no clue as far as pipeline work goes. I have heard it from a lot of guys on here though. Please excuse my ignorance :-)
Thanks Mighty Kahunna! :-) S.W.
I think they are reffering to working directly with a company 4 example Conoco Phillips I would bill them direct & I would have to wait 30 60 or 90 days to get paid, But when you work 4 a contractor they wait those days & u get paid every week or bi- weekly
I see...... I wondered what the deal was. I thought it was crazy myself, but I have had to wait on money as well, so it makes sense. Thanks! S.
Righto, payday every Friday, everyone gets off early on Friday so'd they can get to the bank. The contractor has to have a local bank set up to cash their checks at no cost to the hand. In some circumstances, way out cose to the middle of nowhere, they'll pay in cash. That always works. A lot of guys have direct deposit these days but a lot don't.
The people posting about being 90 days out on their money are contractors, usually hooking up wells or field drill rig repairs.
There is massive confusion on this site about the differences between an employee and a "independant contractor" 1099 hand, and a true business. Oh well ; )
JTMcC.
Bingo BigK, if that check is late or short two weeks in a row and you will have welders draggin' up quicker than you can say it.
jrw159
I'm certainly glad that you guys enjoy your work. Anyone with just a touch of reading comprehension knows that I'm all for anyone doing ANY work, as long as it's honest work. The alternative is to be a thieving crack head/tweaker stealing my welding leads, and we seem to have enough of those these days. I don't care if you ride a garbage truck for a living, wash dishes or sweep floors and clean toilets, good on you for earning it. I don't look down on any hard working, honest individual.
If it makes you guys feel better, then keep telling yourself you make more than a PL welder.
But yes, I know quite a few (a couple of thousand in the last 3 years) PL welders making over 200K. AND, having a day off every week AND between one and three months off per year, plus a pension and health insurance. So much for beating a dead mule.
The math is pretty simple, but arguing with people who don't understand that math is a total waste of time so honestly I wish you all well. Specially rafterg with the difficulties he's endured over the last couple of years. I'll add that he was much nicer to me a few months ago when I was sending him every lead for rig welder employment I came across in his part of the world, but that's how it goes on the net, they love you one day and hate you the next ; ) fortunatly I don't let anyone rent space in my head so it just whizzes on past me : )
And by the way rafterg, there are approx. 52 weeks in a year, not 48. And just for the record, I've been working in construction, with union representation as both an employee and an employer for close to 24 years now and I've never been involved in a strike, or even seen one for that matter, in fact I believe every contract I've worked under for many, many years has had a "no work stoppage" item in it. Rafterg, had you had health insurance over the last couple of years you would be in a better place right now. I understand that gig as my Wife/Chic and I paid off over $100,000 in medical bills, it takes quite a few hours under a hood to get that done but we did it.
I'm done, I've got some work to do so enjoy your day and bash away dudes, I can handle it ; )
JTMcC.
I wasnt bashing nobody sorry you took it that way like you said it's the net and we arent face to face so typed words get taken the wrong way it happens all the time and yes you did send me 1 job lead in houston 3 months after i was out of the hospital and i thanked you for it and could not go at that time because i still had open wounds on my body i'm sorry you think i owe you something for helping me but thanks all the same and "math is a total waste of time " how did you run the numbers without using math i put it in black and white right in front of you and like i said i work for myself and if i feel the need to take time off i do but i dont unless i'm hurt and yes i could of had med insurance but at 1400 a month for my and my wife it wasnt doable at the time yeah so i owe a few hundred thousand dollars to the doctors they'll it get sooner or later bashing you i was not just putting it in balck and white in front of you and if you spending more thwan 150 -200 a week on supplies you need to burn more of the rod than just half
Rafterg,
No you have me confused with someone else. I was out working thru your entire ordeal in the hospital. I sent you several leads in Texas and Oklahoma, none worked out for you as they were too far from your house. This was way back when your Son was battling his illness.
Reread my posts, where do you see that I think you owe me something????????????? I sent those leads along only because they might be of some help to you when you needed the work. I hear of hundreds of jobs over the course of a year. What bugs me is when I get these PM's from people saying "thank you, I agree with you, ect, ect", but on the forum they bash me like a punk. And you are one of those people, I give you a pass because of the terrible hardships you've dealt with the last couple of years. Other people don't get the pass, they're either bipolar or just idiots.
I was also trying to help you with your numbers, you quote a years earnings in the rig yard for 48 months, not the 52 that are actually in a year. Go back and reread if you missed that. Take a weeks gross X 4 X 12 = 48 weeks. A month isn't 4 weeks man it's about 4 and one third.
I hope you get out in the workforce as soon as possible, I hope you buy the nicest double wide available to park on your Mom's property (and those run well over $100,000 now), I hope you have the money to build the mother of all front porches with a grill and a fire pit, I hope you build the truck of your dreams (probably a Dodge if you have any sense) and bolt the ultimate welding machine to it, I don't wish ill on anyone that's not doing wrong to others. This is America for crying out loud, Land of the Free and Home of the Brave, go get some man, and I'll add this: when the doctors say you'll never be able to do something , they are usually wrong. Based on my personal experience, not an opinion, I've been doing things the doctors said would never happen for about three decades now ; ), those old sawbones are likely dead now but I'm out truckin around like a stupid 20 year old kid, well almost : )
JTMcC.
For 1 i am far from being a punk and if your mad at me then be mad at me dont give me any ease becuase i had an illness and my son died I'm big boy and can take the heat and my figures were just an estimate but to please you i went back and corrected it i wasnt mad when i posted what i did and i took it aqs you rubbing it in my face that you helped me by sending me job leads i trully do appreciate you sending me those leads but as you said at the time my place was here with my wife and son and i was still recooping i already have a dodge it aint the prettiest ig but i aint entering into a contest in a few weeks i'll be back out there making money and paying my way once againg climbing back up from the bottom opf the ladder like i said before things typed on the net get taken the wrong way please forgive me if you took anything i said the wrong wqay i was not bashing anybody or anything so my numbers were a lil off
OK man, either you don't read before you respond, or you don't understand what you read. Either way, I've done everything in my power to help you. I commented that I'm tired of being treated like a punk by people who send me these nice PM's but rag on me on the forum, your response is that you're not a punk?????
Dude, read it carefully, you are consistently missing the point of several peoples posts. Slow down and read it twice, you will save yourself some embarassment replying to comments that had nothing to do with you. Same with "mad" at you, read it again, read it five times if you need to, I wished you nothing but prosperity and your comment is that I'm "mad" at you??????
Get a grip, you either are not paying attention or you don't have the ability to understand the written word.
Either way, I've wished you nothing but money and happiness, if you can't understand my posts, you should of paid more attention in the 3rd grade when they were teaching reading comprehension.
Get this- Good Luck to you and yours. Happy days and lots of financial success to you. Great family and friends to you. I can't make it any more simple.
I'm completely done here, go make the maximum that society will allow you to make with the skills and intelect you posess.
JTMcC.
Here he goes again...............
Come out 'an play..............
I got my fiddle...........
Why don't you hit the rest with that one point rating while yer at it scumbag...........
You happy now??? It's pointless what you're doing, but you know you have few friends & the only way you can build yourself up is by knocking others down. You know who you are........
You got some real self esteem issues I bet. That, or a serious insecurity complex..........
To all of you out there. I am very disappointed at the trend that I see on the AWS Online Forum. This thread is not unusual. Just check out many of them. I don't think the Forum is intended to be a personal chat room. I would prefer that we all got back to using it for a better purpose.
Don't get me wrong, but individual posts such as "uh-oh" by rafter and "Who...me?" by vagabond don't really serve anyone well. They may get you to four diamonds, but I don't think that is the real purpose of the Forum. I have seen subjects initiated and discussed by the two of you that are meaningful and your experience and opinions have, I am sure, been a positive influence on many.
The Shop Talk and Technical segments of the Forum are by far my favorites, but over the past several months they have really been downgraded. Let's head back to the real value of the Forum.
The mission of the American Welding Society is "to advance the science, technology and application of welding and allied joining and cutting processes, including brazing, soldering and thermal spraying". I don't see any way that a response with the word "scumbag" included does anything to further that mission.
Thanks for the opportunity to voice my opinion.
By sbcmweb 
Date 10-27-2008 00:50
Edited 10-27-2008 01:02
I had said something earlier & decide to re edit after seeing I have learned some very interesting things from your prior posts here. MY apology if you read the initial comments. My apology to you indeed. You know your stuff. I do stand corrected as to the content of your contribution here.
You are correct.
Part of the issue here is we have a couple individuals that enjoy negatively confronting other members in a somewhat arrogant & self-promoting fashion. It's been an on going issue for awhile now. I said what I said in response to getting my posts bagged with a one rating by a seemingly anonymous member. they know who they are & they have NO respect from me. Again, I stand corrected by my initial comments, if you read them. Thanks. S.W.
The quality of the shop talk section has been in a doward spiral for a couple of months now. I agree with fred and hope none of you guys take this the wrong way, i like chatting with you guys as much as the next guy and im guilty of getting off subject as well. The diamond system and rating system is kinda getting outta hand, if used right you can tell which member is knowledgable and contributes GOOD info on the topics thats up for discussion. Instead it's being used by some to get back at members because they got a fued or differences of OFF THE TOPIC post or just because they dont like each other.
I personally think the rating system should be done away with. It's really useless. The people who are around often enough know who is a contributor of good material, and who is not.
Fred was right. So are you Kevin. I have contributed to the problem, in part. I'll freely admit it. I also regularly contribute meaningful material to this site on a regular basis as well, as do so many others. Problem for me is, when someone negatively challenges my credibility or experience without really knowing me, I get a little pissed off. Sure, it's gonna happen & I have thick skin, but it gets old, dealing with a troll. Especially when you never really see any regular positive contribution from these individuals. Even more so when you see the same individuals do it to others on a regular basis as well. Nothing more than arrogant, self promoting, indulgent comments aimed at little more than creating an atmosphere of negativity, NOT objective viewpoints. They know who they are.......
They also probably know they have made VERY few friends here as well. Most individuals like that, are well aware of the negative wave of energy that seems to follow them around and are used to the contention that follows. If I see something I don't think is right on, or sounds a little stupid, I generally do not rush to the first opportunity to discredit or challenge that individual. Sure, this is a forum & we are going to disagree on things once in awhile. At the same time, a few things have gotten out of hand & some do not know when to quit. Or keep their mouth shut, myself included.
FWIW S.W.
Steve, i know were your coming from and exactly who your refering to. I've done the same thing myself and my post was not directed at you, i think you contribute alot to this forum and i think your stand up guy. That guy does everybody that way, and he thinks people bash on him in this forum when the truth is he's the worst person for bashing and alway's trying to belittle someone's post and credability.
By sbcmweb
Date 10-28-2008 03:02
Edited 10-28-2008 03:04
You said it Kevin. I didn't take anything you said personally. I know exactly where you're coming from & I agree.
It's funny, that the same individual that would go to the mods, complain & make posts regarding creating a disruptive environment does more than their fair share causing disruption & turmoil with other members.
They may think that being "brutally honest" & "telling it like it is" is fair & respectable.
We all know that it's little more than a pathetic excuse for arrogant, indulgent, self promoting showboating.
Anyone with any common sense knows that being an arrogant, self absorbed, jerk with all the answers is usually the LEAST effective way to win the respect & admiration of others.
It's a really good way to make a lot of enemies though.
FWIW S.W.
yes i know there are 52 weeks in a year thats why i multiplied by 12 because there are 12 months in a year
It's pointless Shad...............Pointless...............
yeah i know but you know me
yeah you're right pointless and i'm a dumba$$ now so i'll stop bickering and trying to make people understand i am a nice guy and trying to help reading comprehension in the 3rd grade lol i can only apologize and explain so much 3 times and thats enuff or did i miss calculate again
I dunno. I lost track. :-)
Once someone has lost my respect, I really don't pay a whole lot of attention to what they say anyways........
Like I said, it doesn't really matter either way. I know you're a nice guy :-)
Ok, let me preface this by saying all I am doing is running a HYPOTHETICAL comparison!! I am also doing a 48 week year to keep it apples to apples. Most guys would like a month off; weather will force some of that anyhow. Shad's numbers are all before uncle Sam; so we'll leave mine that way. As a caveat; the "employee" pipeline hand does not pay SS or SEI, the contract hand does. This "Joe Pipeliner" is also not paying liability insurance or consumables. So on a typical pipeline job working 6/10s it comes down to this:
40 hrs. @ $42.00 = $1680.00
20 hrs. @ $63.00 = 1260.00
That makes for $2940.00 in WAGES; as in W-2.
60 hrs. @ $15.00 = $900.00 Rig rent
Per diem of $102.50 @ 6 = $615.00
Fringe benefits of $18.00 per hr. so on a 60 hr. week another $1080.00 in fringe (this is health insurance, pension fund, etc.)
So "spendable" compensation for the week is $4455.00 plus another "non-cash" of $1080.00 for total compensation of $5535.00. Figuring 48 weeks @ $4455.00 puts you at $213,840 and total compensation during the same time of $265,680.00.
Having said all that there are a TON of variables such as bonus hours paid, working 10 getting paid 11, on BOTH sides of the coin: I am willing to bet Cactus does the same for his guys once in awhile too. The only reason I threw this out is to take some of the acidity out of the conversation. There's money to be made welding. How and where you do it is up to you.
On edit: I am not arguing for OR against pipeline or oilfield hands. Just throwing out numbers for the sake of comparison that come from what I consider reliable sources. Hopefully noone takes offense to it!!
no offense taking point ery well stated
I love these threads about money. . . . . they are the best. Do you greedy, materialistic SOB's (I'm including myself in this) realize that we all talk about money more that we talk about women???? ROFLMAO, I've found it's easier for me to keep the money around than it is the women!!!! Momma's don't let yer babies grow up to be welders da da dum de de dum de de dum. . . . .
it all goes hand in hand. No money.......no women !
No, No Money......No Good women. :-)
Them $20 crack whores ain't nuthin' but trouble............
No Steve, the good women come with their OWN money. :) :)
You guys can speak for yourselfs, my Wife/Chic has stuck with me thru several boom/bust cycles, 23 plus years to be exact.
Most likely due to my incredible good looks and amazing charm. That.........or she's just waiting till the next boom : )
Nope, must be my looks and charm, no other explaination. Plus I'm pretty handy with a grill.
JTMcC.
You guys just look out in a few more weeks i'm headed out and i'm comming after your money keep up if you can and if not get the hell out of the way lol
C'mon Shad! I have heard there is this guy out there named Rick who needs knocked down a couple of pegs! LOL!! Looking forward to working with you. Would like to invite to to a bit of free shelter til that first check, but I honestly think you will develop neck trouble from ducking in this trailer. Your sleeping situation would be worse. you are pretty much as tall as my trailer is wide!
i appreciate it Rick but i'll be ok i'm working on a few deals to make some cash before i roll out of here i'm sure it'll be a joy working with all of you
I should have never stopped being a drug dealer. :-)
And I thought I was the only one who missed it!! ROFLMAO
HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAH thats a good one Steve !!!!!
Soooo glad you approve!!!!! :-)
Problem was, I liked to use all the profits up..... :-)
"To be a dope man, boy you must qualify.......Don't get high on your own supply" (Dope Man, N.W.A., Straight Outta Compton LP)
I hadda quit that cocaine, I got tired of waking up in my car doin' 80 miles an hour. . . . . . . ON FIRE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! -Richard Pryor
Ahhhh. Richard Pryor. The godfather of modern drug use. :-)
