Diamonds and ratings (from the Admin)

By Mikeqc1 (****)

Date 10-29-2008 14:12

I like the rating diamonds, lets you know if people are in agreement or like the post.
The silver ones letsa you know how much they post, i say keep em
MDK

By jon20013 (*****)

Date 10-29-2008 14:37

No opinion Ross, take em or leave em. I do think the red "ratings" might be being abused however...

By Stephan (***)

Date 10-29-2008 14:47

Good point Ross!

Even though - and I may speak here just for myself, (being just a chunk of coal, but a bit more "sobered" one intermediately) - it's not the rating but somewhat else detracting from the forum...

Stephan

By ross

Date 10-29-2008 14:55

Don't be mysterious, Stephan. PM me if you want.

Ross

By Stephan (***)

Date 10-29-2008 20:07 Edited 10-29-2008 20:12

Thanks for the kind offer, Ross!

No, I don't want to PM you and the reason is quite simple.

Everything I have to say can be made public as I have no fear anymore to be "kicked off" the forum. Even though it were a pity.

You know, the forum was once - for me personally - one of the most important things.

And those people who have asked me sometimes why I am investing that much personal effort and time or so to participate have heard answers just as:

"Because it's a honor for me to be allowed to talk to all these great people!" or "It simply makes fun!"

by myself.

I remember to have had a wonderful discussion with one of my most appreciated fellows who comes from the UK. As we had dinner one night in an excellent Indian restaurant as I have visited Cambridge that time, he offered me by the way to having coincidently recognised me, as being "Stephan" from Germany, the guy who's attending the AWS forum. I was quite surprised but I have honestly confirmed his assumption. The fellow is a very highly educated welding expert and yes, I admire his expertise in welding and his nonetheless very open and likeable mind. But he asked me the question on what I feel by attending the forum and writing all this stuff I have "contributed" by the time. He additionally told me of other forums being more "professional" in particular regard to welding.

And I told him - perhaps he may read this anytime - that I simply feel good by having these wonderful people aside and that I feel great pleasure by even busying myself with the questions coming from all the fellow members, dealing with what I love mostly (after my family) - WELDING. And... that I am always learning somewhat new by even visiting the AWS forum.

But we have also discussed what has happened with "Mr weld39" and his opinion about my contributions. And to be honest, that was the first time that I began to doubt on myself or better, on the "value" of my contributions for this - still great - forum. Therefore I was so happy as Joe Kane (I truly "love" this guy even though he has never specifically replied on one of my posts!) has thrown back the "Feed the Formal Education Monster before you speak" back at "Mr weld39". There was it again, I was not alone!

But to be honest and this, please believe me, is being expressed entirely without any offense against anybody, my mind has changed a bit since all these boring posts were exchanged and people have acted like morons, as you always name the ones who are acting like... "morons?".

Perhaps it has to do with my very own attitude to deal with things. Either I do try to doing them right or even none.

And perhaps it might have to do with some reactions or even with rather the "no" reactions to some topics I have tried to deal with. Some issues in welding are even quite complicated - even this is what fascinates me as you know - and are thus hardly difficult to explain in using simple words. This is where the mathematicians are in a better position since they may use their expressions without needing to make many words. They have created a way over generations to understand one another. Using words to express intricate subjects is quite more difficult which might be the reason that some of my contributions experience "a naught of a reaction" - as somebody has named this a short time back.

Perhaps it might have also to do with the fact that I am no US American and now... I am where I wanted to get to.

You know Ross, I admit to have real problems to understanding what's going on within the forum at the moment. You were so kind and did reply on one of my posts a time ago dealing with the great USA and their people making this nation so great.

"E pluribus unum." This was the sentence which has impressed my that time very much. Out of many, One!

And now as I am visiting the forum - which is admittedly rarely meanwhile - to have a look into the sections I can read things which are making me considering. A hundreds of posts dealing with - stupid - politics instead of welding. This by the way I have meant, when I replied once to a post "...some things are apparently more important than talking about valence electron reactions with oxidation processes."

And then I have asked myself: "Well, where is the "E pluribus unum"? when most appreciated fellow members, appreciated by myself since estmating them as being highly intelligent, asking whether one of their presidential candidates might be a radical muslim in disguise or if his heritage may allow him to become the next president of the United States of America. I am born in a country which has a very regrettable history. Which has went through one of the darkest chapters in human nature and everything has started with the question "Does the heritage of this human being really allow him to be "Deutsch"? What a bullsh**! I have kept the silence by now. Others - also being foreign fellow members - have posted their opinions. Do some of you really think that one of the both who want to become the next president of the USA is really so vicious that he would not want that your nation should grow in prosperity and that all of "E pluribus unum" may have deserved a chance for obtaining an improved progress in their lifes?

I am "just" a European, and a German additionally, which might be the worst combination for some of you. But to be honest, this described above makes me really hesitating to visit the forum meanwhile and this is what makes me - Stephan - considering detracting the forum with an, admitted, heavy heart. You know, this was the reason I have posted yesterday the "Universe.pdf" which should express that all of us are none but a chunk of coal but nonetheless the most wonderful creation the Almighty Lord has ever made - since finally and at the end of the day it's all about perspective.

I have made some wonderful friendships here and I have met some of the most wonderful humans both virtually but also physically here within the "worlds greatest welding forum" which it is, quite undoubtedly. But like I said... it's hard for me to see the people, all of those US Americans, rendering themselves with arguments making me truly scary.

I won't go, if even, with an: "I'm done!" Some things just fade away...

I have reconsidered and relativized my microscopic tiny role within this forum. And this... has truly helped me.

Hence, and finally, the discussion in regard to the "rating" etc. has already been projected by Henry "ssbn727" long before it has been installed. Now we are having the results. Kids are playing God by rating others whose opinions or whatsoever they don't like. And this Ross, the forum truly hasn't deserved. What is good? What is poor? I don't know, I don't want to know and I don't want to judge...

Perhaps I am totally wrong by seeing the things as I stated above or that I am overestimating all this. But these sentences - dunno where they did come from - have required to be written.

My very best regards, and once again, no offense intended with my humble .02$
Stephan

By ctacker (****)

Date 10-29-2008 20:16 Edited 10-29-2008 20:31

I give you a rating of "3" Stephan. I truly hate to see any of the greats thinking about leaving.
Its people like you that keeps me coming back!

By ross

Date 10-29-2008 20:55

Oh, Stephan, we're having an election here. Don't worry, we'll be normal again in a week or so. A little "pluribus" and not so "unum" until the silly season is over.

Ross

By CWI555

Date 10-30-2008 20:40

Ross, in my opinion the red diamonds need to go. The silver/grey ones are no distraction.

By raftergwelding (*****)

Date 10-29-2008 22:07

Stephan i personally enjoy reading your post and replies and didnt know or car what country you are from or for that matter what your race is yes i am an american but that doenst mean i dont like you because you are a european or german you could be a 1/2 black 1/2 hispanic man living in europe speaking french fluently for all i care race. everyone of your post is worth while my friend dont let a few morons run you off and i will admit i'm prolly 1 of the morons you're referring to but we are just having fun although it may get out of hand or off topic at times sorry if i was bother to you it was not intended

By aevald

Date 10-30-2008 00:57 Edited 10-30-2008 01:14

Hello Stephan, you know me, I sit on the fence for a lot of the things that don't really interest me. I do agree with ross on the election issues and their somewhat consuming content on the forum as of late. It's not that I don't have an interest in what is being discussed so much as it will not likely change what is in store for us in the very near future. Whether I really care for one or the other of our candidates I will make my selection, the election will happen, and a candidate will be selected. As an american I will get behind whoever is selected and support the positive efforts of this individual and express displeasure at the things that I disagree with. In instances where I can make a difference where my views differ I will attempt to do so.
I will still monitor the many topic areas of the forum for information and opportunities to make contributions. I will also look forward to the many positive additions that so many individuals offer freely here. On occasion I may wade through some content that doesn't necessarily readily serve a purpose, yet I will also do so with a smile on my face knowing that those who have contributed those items have done so with a sense of comraderie in many instances. The only things that I don't care for with any sort of vigilence are the negatives that come about from time to time. I and everyone else can do without those.
So in closing Stephan, I hope that you will definitely continue to add to and frequent this site as you have in the past. Best regards, Allan

Addition: There is an "OLD" saying that goes along the lines of: Learn to accept the things that you cannot change and change the things that you can, a pretty good saying and certainly a reasonable motto to live by.

By jrw159

Date 10-30-2008 02:07

Allan,
All I can say is ***(rate).

jrw159

By jrw159

Date 10-30-2008 13:48

Stephan,
Sir, you know well that I have the utmost respect for you as well as your outlook and knowledge. Also for your attitude as reflected in this comment: "Everything I have to say can be made public."

I will refrain from commenting on the diamond's at this brief moment because I want to relay something to you about the "election related" post's.

I can sure see how it could be overwhelming to see and read some of the varying opinions and views that come from the many differant American citizens, all of whom are passionate in these views/opinions. But my friend, do not be discouraged because the bulk of it is almost over for another four years. :-) Your post about the planets and our signifigance reminded me of this picture that I will attach. I think it relates quite well.

Thank you for your time and patience.

John

By jon20013 (*****)

Date 10-30-2008 14:18

yep, yep.... to all on the political ramblings. One thing, I didn't respond to a js55 post about what we love about and makes us think America is truly unique in many ways... we can all disagree vehemently on the subject of politics and then once the elections are over all come back together, shake hands and move on. My mother and father always said there's a few things you don't discuss with friends... religion and politics being in the top two categories... that said, all of us in this Forum are, in one way or another, Ambassador's in our field of practice. We might fight like animal's over "political ideals" but at the end of the day, we can reasonably discuss technical matters, most often with the coolest of heads.

By jwright650 (*****)

Date 10-30-2008 15:10

LOL...John, I think this one would be better suited to ease the tensions......

By jrw159

Date 10-30-2008 15:14

Nice, I agree. :-)

By Stephan (***)

Date 11-01-2008 15:45

John,

this is a really good one!

Hmmm... if he would also look that overwhelmingly relaxed if he would know that there is a real chance to eventually "transform" into this one, later on? :-):-):-)

Best to you!
Stephan

By 3.2 Inspector (***)

Date 11-01-2008 15:49

Did you have to show that picture, just as I am about to go out and buy pizza, chips and beer :(

3.2

By Stephan (***)

Date 11-01-2008 16:25

Hmmm... I should have known this before!

O.k. this is especially for you, to make sure that pizza, chips and beer may hit the spot!

By 3.2 Inspector (***)

Date 11-01-2008 16:33

Great!

By Stephan (***)

Date 11-01-2008 15:33

John,

thanks a lot my friend!!

By the way...

Is it possible that I can see here one of the next presidents of the USA?

It were no surprise... with those parents! :-):-):-)

Best to you!
Stephan

By jrw159

Date 11-01-2008 20:26

Stephan,
I can only hope so my friend. :-)

As always, it is good to hear from you.

Take care,
John

By CWI555

Date 10-30-2008 20:39

I have reconsidered and relativized my microscopic tiny role within this forum. And this... has truly helped me.

microscopic tiny role????

Hardly. Your one of the more knowledgable (spelling?) posters here. You dont blather about the unimportant, but you do speak wisely an concisely when you do speak. Something of value to us all in that.

Respectfully,
Gerald

By bozaktwo1 (***)

Date 10-29-2008 16:43

I believe the red diamond post ratings lose all value in the Off-Topic section, as some folks get a little vehement over their side of a debate and spread the one-diamond ratings on anything they might not agree with. I wouldn't expect that this was the intended use of the tool.

By swnorris (****)

Date 10-29-2008 17:14 Edited 10-29-2008 17:18

I don't think the diamonds are the least bit detracting, but I think original silver diamonds should not be given in the Off Topic Section because the postings are typically not welding or industry related.

Edit: If it's decided that diamonds are no longer to be used, why not something like "Member since 10/29/08", or something like that?

By jwright650 (*****)

Date 10-29-2008 17:28

Ross, my opinion is as Scott's on the number of postings....no points for off topic posts.

The other rating with the red diamonds...I'm not sure of the usefulness, I do see some people use it who don't like a particular poster for some reason other than the content of the post, so they will rate the post in a negative way...but I guess children will play.

By ross

Date 10-29-2008 18:23

OK, I turning ratings off for "Off Topic." I don't have that level of control for the silver diamonds. It's on or off forum-wide for those.

Ross

By ctacker (****)

Date 10-29-2008 18:49

I would like to see them all go away. those of us thats been here know who contributes and who don't.
If you run a search, you'd find way too many(in my opinion) posts related to diamonds. As someone above said, kids will be kids, this isn't a kids site. and shouldn't be downgraded because of people racing to get the most diamonds.
the ratings diamonds do not express what they were intended for. I personnly have asked alot of questions and answered few. but I have close to 2.75 rating(at the time of this post) mostly due to my jokes. yet I see people that have contributed good stuff with lower ratings.

My 2 cents, after putting it in my 401k its 1.12 cents today (thats how much mine has gone down this year)

By johnnyh (***)

Date 10-29-2008 18:57

I vote "present".

By pipewelder_1999 (****)

Date 10-29-2008 19:04

I like the post ratings as I can see how others view the content I post. Having a count of how many posts I have is nice too. I don't care if any of the information is public or not. I try not to check anyone elses post quality as my ego just cannot take the hit :).

I would like to see a system where all users who reach 1800 posts get a free D1.1 or something :)

By ctacker (****)

Date 10-29-2008 19:37

I would like to see a system where all users who reach 1800 posts get a free D1.1 or something

Sure, pick 1800, I say 850 :)

By Lawrence (*****)

Date 10-29-2008 20:11 Edited 10-29-2008 20:14

It is clear to me that the Stars and Colored Ratings are a form of opression yolked upon us by our AWS overlords.

"For the bureaucrat, the world is a mere object to be manipulated by him."
~~Karl Marx

The Jackboot of tyrany must be lifted from our collective throats!

The wealth of stars and colors should be redistributed amongst the prolitariat! Every citizen supplied with stars enough to fill his/her pot!

And the colors to be redistibuted along the pallet to give each of us an equal brown.

"What is genuine is proved in the fire, what is false we shall not miss in our ranks. The opponents must grant us that youth has never before flocked to our colours in such numbers, ... in the end, one will be found among us who will prove that the sword of enthusiasm is just as good as the sword of genius."
~~Frederick Engels

"The Fascist octopus has sung its swan song, the jackboot is thrown into the melting pot"
-- George Orwell

Ok... That was fun... But Ross, I'm ambivilant.

(Forum member since September 2000)

By raftergwelding (*****)

Date 10-29-2008 22:10

in that case wheres my book lol

By welderbrent (*****)

Date 10-29-2008 22:14

Ross,

As a newer poster on this site, I say leave at least the silver for the number of posts. I appreciate when first starting seeing who some of the 'more experienced' posters were. Not that the others don't have good opinions, but experience counts for many things.

The red don't seem to matter as much even with the possibilities of abuse as people seldom rate our posts anyway. They could be dropped without any positive or negative consequences.

Have a Great Day, Brent

By yorkiepap (***)

Date 10-29-2008 23:09

Hey Ross:
I guess I'll also go ahead and get out a few burrs under my saddle too.

If I piddle in anyones' Wheaties..... live with it & get a life.

I've always touted this forum too be the premiere welding info site, bar none. The respected, knowledgeable, experienced, and, most importantly, the honorable contributers here who provide the quality information to help others succeed, have been diminishing with their input. I can see, as others have, the constant barrage of useless diatribe, condescending and demeaning remarks, one-word or idiotic smiley responses, and particularly those off-tangent posts that take a sound topic and flare off into the twilight zone from the original posters' query. I don't have a problem with all this crap getting shoveled to the Off-Topic section where it can reside for those who need to spew their midget-minded responses. I have vacated several other forums permanently because of like contributions and castigating responses. It's a shame many of the newbies & youngsters are cheated from getting fruitful information to help them advance their skills & knowledge.

I can only strongly suggest you do some serious considerations to applying DISCIPLINE to some of the postings to maintain a factual substance to the OP's subject matter and either delete the non-subject response, or move it to the Off-Topic section for further discussion. It wouldn't hurt you to simply delete the one-word/smiley BS either.....why lose valuable space?

I won't disappear from here because of the comradeship I have made with those GENTLEMEN I have respect for and always look to their pronounced and meaningful responses. And I know, YOU know, who you are.

OK..... you can now have my burrs.... Denny

By jwright650 (*****)

Date 10-30-2008 12:37

Good post Denny....and I agree....let those chips fall where they may.

Ross,
When someone performs a search to try to answer a question they may have about welding and finds thousands of hits...it IS exciting...at first....then as they click the links and find the off topic dribble, it gets discouraging the further they go because the threads may contain lots of good useful info but then have to sift through the rest...this person is searching for answers, lets keep the answers pure, so they don't click through pages of dribble to find what it is they need to answer their question, many of us have jobs and need to find these answers quickly to solve problems that are on the job....

I can appreciate the bonds between friends that have been made, and the occasional "hey how ya doing" is fine, but lets not allow that to consume our technical threads.....

Ross, the discipline as Denny spoke about has gotten so lax that people are now getting offended by others pointing out the need to stay on topic. What can I do here to help with this?

Stephan, yes it is an election year here in the States and it brings out the very worst in most of us, as folks try to discuss the subject....please don't let this discourage you. As someone stated..."this too, shall pass".

By Revjsnizzle (**)

Date 10-30-2008 14:39

Something that I have noticed and really enjoy knowing that when I do have a question regarding welding and go to a search engine and typw it in 8 out of 10 times an AWS forum site is first or second. Pretty good if you ask me, tells me that there are people out there with the same questions as me and ask them in the exact same way. I appreciate all of them.

By DaveBoyer (*****)

Date 10-30-2008 01:33

Ross, I too would like to see the off topic posts restricted to the off topic section. I feel that when a thread gets far removed from it original post that it might be started as a new thread with a new title [if it is welding related]. If at some point the topic is no longer welding related, that part of the thread may be moved to the off topic section. My reason for this is so that the usefull information might be found by someone checking the titles for posts on a particular subject.

By Shane Feder (****)

Date 10-30-2008 15:56

Ross,
Why not get rid of the diamonds completely, they have become a joke.
Henry (SSBN727) commented a little while ago that he was not happy with the recognition he had got for his postings and longevity on the forum being blown away by people with nothing better to do than try to beat each other into amount of postings.
Here are some of the most valuable contributors to the forum:
jon20013 - Registered 2002 - 2482 posts
Lawrence - Registered 2000 - 2226 posts
803056 - Registered 2005 - 2132 posts
Aevald - Registered 2005 - 2034 posts
SSBN727 - Registered 2001 - 1548 posts

Here are some that have participated in a game to get the most diamonds.
Registered 2005 - 2594 posts
Registered 2008 - 2154 posts
Registered 2008 - 1858 posts
Registered 2006 - 1409 posts
Registered 2006 - 981 posts

Have we devalued the "diamonds".
IMHO yes
Regards,
Shane

By jrw159

Date 10-30-2008 16:08

Some people take the diamonds WAY to seriously, and others not seriously enough. IMHO it is all a big ego trip. I could personaly care less one way or the other. I am guilty of posting some off topic stuff, and on very rare occasions, some stuf that is actually relevant to the welding industry and helpfull. If you like it fine, if not fine.

But as far as if the diamonds are being devalued, it is all in the eye of the beholder.

Maybe we should all just loose our individuality and personality, start acting like the robots we are supposed to be and....

To he** with that...HERE!!!! It is just this easy. Need an easy button?

****

jrw159

By sbcmweb (****)

Date 10-30-2008 17:57

I agree John. I will say, that I too at times get off track, and as I made it known to the moderators, some posts end up going off track after a troll starts bashing people. No one ever seems to get too riled up over that though. It shall be said that some of us that screw around a little also post meaningful content on a regular basis. To suggest that someone's diamond rating solely reflects low quality contributions to the site if they are not long term members, with many years on the forum is ignorant, to say the least.

In the end, if someone is going to get offended over someone else's posts not containing enough serious content, who will be the judge of what "Serious Content" actually is, or is not for that matter.

If I have to be weary every single time I make or reply to a post, being concerned that it either "won't be judged of serious content" or get cheap shotted by some arrogant, self absorbed troll, than why participate? Some guys are on several forums, taking cheap shots at other members on a regular basis. Others are on several forums, sharing useful information. To each is their own prerogative. I for myself, belong to no other forums as a regular contributing member. This is the only forum I have ever belonged to.

But, as I have always believed- If the benefits of something do not justify the cost involved, why do it?

If it's going to be this much drama & heartache over petty stuff like this, I have more than enough of that in my day to day 24/7 to keep me occupied. Why go looking for more?

FWIW S.W.

By jwright650 (*****)

Date 10-30-2008 18:31

Guys,
The off topic items that I and others were referring to usually the one word text messages, and there are multiple posts to stretch it out into a sentence....All-in-all there would be multiple posts to complete a single sentence of text. All this can, and should be, kept within the confines of the offtopic forum so that it does not disrupt a thread....in there you can post all of the one-word posts that your heart desires.

Steve,
If you have to worry yourself over whether the content is going to be judged as offtopic or not, then that post should be posted within the confines of the offtopic forum.
As for the bashing of people, that is usually dealt with on an individual basis and privately.

C'mon stop with the drama already, this is just common courtesy stuff we are talking about here, don't derail the original poster's topic...it's simple. A guy reviewing the responses to his/her question should not have to wade through another two pages of one word conversations between a few friends to get to thier answer.

By sbcmweb (****)

Date 10-30-2008 19:48

I know what you mean John & I agree.

As far as what I mentioned about posting content, I was not really referring to something that I would know (or question) to be ill suited for a certain topic. I tend to get off track at times, but I know better about deliberately derailing a thread. I should have clarified that a little better. My apology.

I guess what I mean is if I say something in a comical sense, but still am not making a deliberate effort to derail a thread, & get someone all worked up about it, crying to the mods, OR if I post something that is meaningful & have some arrogant jerk try to bash it.......

I joke around a little by nature & sometimes interject a comment into a thread that has an application, but not in an exact sense to the content. My intentions are not to draw the thread off track, but to add something of my individual experience that may apply in a sense. I try to be cognizant of that when I post. I sure am not perfect at it, but I try to represent myself as a professional.

At the same time though, if I can't be myself anymore & have to watch every little thing I say, then I have to wonder how much time I want to put into contributing at that point. Especially if turmoil keeps surrounding petty issues & turning them into more than exactly that.

This of, course is not a petty issue. too many long standing, respectable members are in agreement about that.

I absolutely understand what you're saying John, I apologize once again if I came off like I didn't agree that all the BS in some recent threads is lessening the value of the forum's information.

FWIW S.W.

By jrw159

Date 10-30-2008 19:20

Steve,
I have noticed that certain behavior is left to run its course, but post a smiley and the world comes to an end for some people. :-)

jrw159 :-)

By johnnyh (***)

Date 10-30-2008 19:24

The only one I can't figure out is 2006 registered with 1409 posts. Who is that?

By jrw159

Date 10-30-2008 19:36

I don't know, I can't figure out any of them. :-)

By sbcmweb (****)

Date 10-30-2008 20:12

Yep. I know what you mean. I agree some things have raised valid concern. At the same time, I got the feeling certain members were inferring to the thought that if you joke around a little & have a lot of posts, that your content overall is valueless.

Like I said before, when the costs outweigh the benefits............

I have the email addresses of my friends...................

Need I say more? S.W.

By jrw159

Date 10-30-2008 20:26 Edited 10-30-2008 20:43

BTW just how much time does it take to read and understand a smiley. IMHO if it takes that much away from ones level of concentration and ability to function, there is probably something else wrong. :-)

I will for sure agree that there is an issue with some of the stuff going on, but there are many more targets for that than what has been addresed. IMHO of course.

As far as I am concerned they can take my diamonds and distrubut them evenly among the ones who truly deserve them and have never posted an off topic comment, snyde remark, derogitory name ect.

"Let he who is without sin, cast the first stone"

"Judge not, lest ye be judged."

jrw159 :-)

By sbcmweb (****)

Date 10-30-2008 20:48

Big TEN FOUR good buddy. They can have mine too. I could give a tin weasel less about them.

I will say, regarding the rating system however, that it IS most certainly being abused & used for wrong reasons as a retaliatory weapon, other than what it was originally intended for. I used to have a perfect three, but after having a scuffle with another member, now it's around a 1.33 or something. We're adults & it's just SOOOOO PETTY!

Just like you quoted, nobody's perfect. Here's another one.

"For all have sinned and have fallen short of the glory of God." Rom 3:23

FWIW S.W.

By hogan

Date 10-30-2008 21:21

After all of this discussion I'm surprised to see religion brought up.