CWI???? E71-t1 dual shield wire

Date 11-30-2008 08:09

That is why the "owner" has specifications, so you the "contractor" can build it the way they want it. You preview the specs and determine if you have the equipment, certifications, are qualified and competent to provide the product/service in a timely (and profitable for you!) fashion. "....... why can't any e71-t1 wire be used as long as it meets or exceeds the spec???" Just to carry this a bit deeper, it is not up to the contractor to determine processes, filler metal, building materials etc. A friend of mine had a family paving business. They thought they could use the aggregate they had stockpiled instead of the specified material....
On a more cheerful note...It never hurts to ask!

By pipehead (***)

Date 11-30-2008 15:05

I realize that but that is the only job I've ever been on where the brand name was spec-ed out.....

They always just said spec was 5p or lo-hi and you could run your pref.....

By welderbrent (*****)

Date 11-30-2008 15:27

Along with what Superflux commented, I have seen it on various occassions. The best example was when I worked in the repair shop for LeTourneau (on their Log Stackers in the NW). We were using ONLY Tri-Mark dual shield wire on any wire usage repairs. When I asked the purchasing agent and a couple others about this they said it was because of the Charpy's test at low temps. Most all other testing was equal even Charpy at normal temps, but when you went to very low temps (as for northern Canada or Alaska) they were no longer equal.

Sometimes we may not know ALL the variables as to the usage at high temp, low temp, certain stresses. One may serve well under the normally tested conditions but when we get into exact usage conditions there is a better wire than the one we are familiar with.

As Superflux said, it never hurts to ask. But, it is their call and they supposedly know what they want and/or need for the job to service properly.

Have a Great Day, Brent

By Joseph P. Kane (****)

Date 11-30-2008 16:12

Most Bridge welding procedures require the electrode brand name, because that brand name was used in the WPQR testing.

By HgTX

Date 12-30-2008 18:10

The bridge welding procedures require the brand name, but usually the selection of that brand name is left up to the contractor.

Hg

By Fredspoppy (**)

Date 11-30-2008 20:16

The Client can, and many time does, make just about anything an "essential variable". In the offshore oil & gas business brand name for FCAW fillers is a very common requirement, as well as the use of "project base mat'ls" for qualification. Cored wires vary greatly from brand to brand, probably more than any other type of filler.

By JTMcC

Date 11-30-2008 20:45

They can and they do. We see, more often than not, brand name specified.

In SoCal, at least until a couple of years ago, you HAD to run Lincoln NR-232, several groups were trying to get an OK for the Esab equivalent, I don't know if they've had any success.
A lot of outside pipe procedures will call out Lincoln 5P+, no other 6010 is allowed, same with 70+ or Hippy.
All of the Excellarc 71 we've run has been really user friendly wire.

JTMcC.

By Superflux (****)

Date 11-30-2008 23:49 Edited 11-30-2008 23:52

pipehead,
Yes, Also, a few years back, I welded on a County building near Yellowstone Park. They too wanted Hobart blah, blah wire: I had Lincoln 232 spooled up and ready to go. I asked they said no, I bought Hobart, worked everyday for 3 weeks, went night skiing every evening at Snow King. OK, the skiing hurt a bit for the first couple of days....
Oh, back to the point. They told me the Hobart had been qualified for their Lo-temp Charpy's and Seismic requirements. Teton County ROCKS!! (see discovery channel Super Volcanos) Sometimes, it can just be a contractors familiarity and success with a particular product.
At least, you have some name brand fillers to work with, and not required to use some Hung Chow's 0U812 crud.

Worst case scenario is you will learn the finer operating characteristics of a new wire.
"They always just said spec was 5p or lo-hi and you could run your pref..... " There is a case of a specific filler (5P being a Lincoln trademark) being called out!
good luck to ya,

John

By pipehead (***)

Date 12-01-2008 00:46

I just wondered not that it runs terrible or anything I just thought it was funny on te same job I had 2 spools of esab wire and they let me run'em out but and they like it better but then back to the ole hobart...lol

By Superflux (****)

Date 12-01-2008 04:26 Edited 12-01-2008 04:34

"The customer's always right" no matter how many times they change their friggin minds!!!!!
Bless their pointed little heads.

By 803056

Date 12-01-2008 05:19

Just remember, in order to ensure a steady paycheck, you have to have a steady supply of happy customers. Ignoring the client's wishes is a sure way to the poor house.

All electrodes are not created equal. It takes more than the ability to run a pretty weld bead to make a satisfactory weld.

An important consideration when welding is to recognize that there is a reason many manufacturers make more than one electrode that meets the same specification and classification. Each electrode, even though it has the same tensile strength, may differ in the balance of alloying constituents, yield strength, ductility, notch toughness, etc. How many different E7018 electrodes, each with a different tradename does Lincoln or ESAB make? Each has several and each has different characteristics and weld deposit chemistry's, but each meets the requirements of an E7018.

Many of the repair projects I get involved with are steel castings. The steel casting can meet the material specification and still have alloy contents that varies widely. One important variable I consider is the sulfur content. My goal is to have the manganese content equal to or greater than ten times the sulfur content. Once I know the sulfur content I research the filler metals to see which one has sufficient manganese to meet my requirement. I list a specific manufacturer and classification in addition to the specification to ensure I have the chemical balance needed to produce the desired results.

Best regards - Al

By js55

Date 12-01-2008 14:12

Sometimes the customer knows what they are talking about, and sometimes they couldn't find their butt with both hands. Quite often requirements are copied and pasted from previous specs without anybody even reconsidering them simply because those who have inherited the responsibility do not know enough to make a change.
If the Hobart wire is a real problem talk to your customer. Always the best idea. Present data to state your case. If you have mechanicals available from other products (especially impacts) present these. Demonstrate to them you are willing to maintain an open and cooperative dialogue, and that their interest is foremost.

By 803056

Date 12-01-2008 14:35

Well stated!

Best regards - Al

By Lawrence (*****)

Date 12-01-2008 19:05

D1.1 Table 4.6 PQR Supplementary Essential Variable changes for CVN Testing Ppplications Requiring WPS Requalification.

5) A change in the manufacturer or the manufacturer's brand name or type of electrode.

So to get back to PipeHead's original question... of "Can a job spec out a certain brand of wire or rod"

The answer may be yes... if depending on the code (D1.1 for example) and impact requiements. If cases like that the a change in brand of wire would require a new PQR... So in a way that is spec-ing out a specific electrode brand.

By pipehead (***)

Date 12-02-2008 01:42

That's the answer I was looking for.... When I asked the client about changing the name brand as long as we stayed with a E71-T1 wire they were interested but didn't know how.....

How Big a deal is it for them to Reqaul?

It is a D1.1 code just don't know all the specs

By fbrieden (***)

Date 01-01-2009 17:57

The customer is always the customer...not always right!