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Up Topic Welding Industry / General Welding Discussion / My own Rig...???
- - By Tamper (**) Date 11-30-2008 03:29
Hello all.  My name is Tamper, and well Im new around here.  But I have been welding for about 5 years now, and I am thinking of finding an engine driven welder and doing some side jobs. But my debate here is that I dont know if I should build a trailer or some how rig up a frame or something like that to lift in and out of my truck.  Its a 82 Chevy 3/4 4x4. What do you all think of that? And what welder should I look for? What I am planning on doing is some heavy equipment, farm equipment.  Yes I have done that before welded for a strip coal operation for about 2 years before they went under. Does any one have any recommendations as to a welder? What about a trailer or not? And yes, there is work around where I live. There are alot of farms and timber cutters.  Sorry about being all around with this post.
Thanks,
Tamper
Parent - By raftergwelding (*****) Date 11-30-2008 04:11
lincoln sa 200 is the machine you want and build a skid for the bed of your truck trailer rigs are a pain in the neck
Parent - - By gotpipe597 (**) Date 11-30-2008 05:00
I agree a Sa 200 would be the best. I just really depends on how much welding you want to do. A welder like a 200 is for all day every day. You may be able to use a ranger or same thing along that line for just side jobs.
Parent - - By pypLynr (***) Date 11-30-2008 05:58
Do you plan on using your truck for other things? Like hauling or is it just a welding truck ? If so ,then I would just rig up a skid in the back or if it is just a welding truck , I would mount my stuff in the truck. My suggestion is a SA-200 also. The super reliable reputation they have is worth its weight in gold.It will burn a 1/16 - 7/32 rod ... LoHi , jet , 5P, aluminum stick, etc.  The down side is that it doesn't produce A/C power, only D/C power . I own all A/C-D/C tools anyway , so it doesn't bother me too much. [ thats just my two cents ]
Parent - - By OxbowCS (*) Date 11-30-2008 06:08
I agree with every one else here.  Have been building fence with a bobcat 225g , just bought an SA about 2 week ago.  NO COMPARE.  The Lincoln is running circles around the blue machine.
Parent - By Cumminsguy71 (*****) Date 11-30-2008 13:33
I don't know about the sa, but have heard a bunch about it since I started coming here and sounds like an awesome machine. Here's my thought on what you'll run into. I was told the sa is around 1300lbs, which means in a 82 3/4 your gonna be pulling wheelies all over the place. The older trucks were quite different than the trucks of today or 8 years ago. Mine was a 3/4 but it would take a heck of a load on the bumper to make the backend look bad, around 12k on a bumper pull. Stuff in the back of the truck, I could rarely put enough of anything in it to make it squat bad.

On the 82 you have, and I have experience with the older ones as well, seems they were usually under rated where as today they are over rated. Meaning they say 1/2 ton and the thing is built like a 3/4 ton. Old days they said 3/4 ton and you'd be lucky if it could really do it without it looking like it was hauling a 797 Cat.

The ranger 8 I have has done well for me and comes in around 600lbs, leaving plenty of capacity for welding gear. You also have to consider the gvw of the truck if by chance you were to get pulled over. 1300lb sa plus all the gear and your 3/4 gvw is 7500....(guess) for an 82 and your tipping over at 9000 or better.

If you were to go with an sa, heres what I would do. I would go to a scrap yard and find a whole set of 82 chevy 3/4 ton springs. Come home split them apart and start stacking them into your 3/4, just take a torch and trim the ends to make them stack in there like the others, get some longer u-bolts and move on. This will keep the truck from sagging, won't mean diddly if you were to get pulled over overloaded, but having a truck that rides more level and don't look overloaded is part of the key. We did this to a 1/2 ton ford and somewhere in the neighborhood of 15 springs per side and could put a ton of stone in the bed and it would ride smooth. I think we ended up cracking the axle on that one though.

Just some food for thought. Like I said, the ranger has done well for me and I've used some bobcats and have liked them, but prefer red. If weight is not a problem just hearing the reputation of the sa makes me want to buy one!
Parent - - By Jake331 (**) Date 11-30-2008 13:47
I would do the skid with a sa 200.... because that way you are set up to go work anywhere. the only advantage to a bobcat or ranger is generator power. but if you decide you want to weld pipeline or work rig yards the company isn't going to let you. no matter how slick of a weld you lay down with your bobcat.
Parent - - By Tamper (**) Date 11-30-2008 18:10
Thanks guys. Well the truck does have 4" blocks in the rear, so the rear of the truck does sit higher then the front. And yes I will be using the truck for other things. Hauling firewood, hay and stuff like that.  And does anyone out there have a pic of a skid that everyone is mentioning? Also, how could I tell that my grinders and such are AC/DC? At the coal mine I worked at I started with a SA-200 then moved to an SA-300 D. Then to a Miller Big 40D. Now its on to a welder search. Thanks everyone, just hopefully this all works out.
Parent - - By millerman (**) Date 11-30-2008 18:52
tamp
what you need to find is a 80 to 86 1 ton camper special springs and they should bolt right in on the 3/4 ton and every one like the sa  but they are great but for future veratility is run a blue trailblazer soon to be a pro 300 and i also run a 200sa short hood both great but i run a lot of mig with the  trail just my two cents
Thanks
Mac
Parent - - By Tamper (**) Date 11-30-2008 19:46
Thanks Mac. But arent camper specials a ford product? And I was thinking about the whole mig and flux cored welding. I know that the sa-200 cant run that, or am I missing something here, or an upgrade?
Thanks
Parent - - By sbcmweb (****) Date 11-30-2008 20:40 Edited 11-30-2008 23:55
Depending on exactly what you are going to do is going to be a big deciding factor in what kind of machine you decide to buy. It sounds to me like you plan on doing maintenance type welding & not specifically pipe, or what have you. In this case, it would be a good idea to look at a multi process air cooled machine, being if you plan on welding with 5/32 or smaller electrodes on a general basis & also want to be able to do MIG & FCAW & generate AC power as well. That said, the bottom line is really what you want & then, what you want to spend. A GOOD SA 200 is going to be around $2500 & up for something halfway descent & dependable. A really used good one, (rebuilt with a warranty) more like $6500 & up. They are great machines, but they won't do any serious CAC, true CV welding, nor will they generate any substantial auxiliary AC power. They are also PURE DC current machines & you will need DC capable motors on your grinders, etc to run them.

The Lincoln Vantage series are fantastic heavy duty, diesel driven, water cooled multi purpose machines, but you better get your pocketbook out. They start around $10,000 new. If you want an excellent multi process machine with BIG power & 3 phase AC power generation, this is the way to go. They are just BIG bucks though. Anything nice usually is.

You can buy a brand new Ranger or Trailblazer in the neighborhood of $4000. A GOOD used one with less than 400 hours in the $2500+/- area. These machines will generate lots of AC power & weld up to 300 amps. Bobcats & the older Rangers are good units, but are limited to no remote operation & cannot generate much power while welding. I strongly suggest staying AWAY from retired rental fleet machines. They have usually been beat to crap & can be lots of trouble. People can say what they want about them, but the rental places usually want only a fraction less of what a brand new machine would cost & most rental units usually have thousands of HARD USE hours on them. Of course, the rental place isn't going to tell you that, but why do you think they are eager to unload machines with high hours & or close to factory warranty expiration.

Also, please do yourself a favor & stay away from anyone offering a "totally rebuilt" machine with a really snappy paint job, but NO warranty. Anyone asking $5000-7000 for a used SA 200 "AS IS" with NO guarantee of any kind you should be leery of right off the bat. Especially when Tom Fowler at Hybriweld sells his chopped custom 200 Mainliners for around $12,000 & EVERY single component on that machine is either NEW or perfect, not to mention it comes with a bumper to bumper warranty!!!  ALL the major places that rebuild & or sell rebuilt SA 200's offer up to a one year warranty on parts & labor. These guys are usually a certified service center & won't be selling you a pretty painted machine with a motor that's going to fail 100 hours after you buy it. Bill's Welder Repair, Hybriweld, HWY 60, Stumpf's, Rann Weld Supply are ALL reputable SA 200 rebuilders & you will get a good machine from them. You'll pay for it, but you'll know what you will be getting for what you spent.

I would not go sinking a huge amount into a new machine & tools unless you really plan on making a career out of it. Start small, with a good used machine & work your way up to something bigger & nicer when the need justifies the cost. That is a lot better than footing the bill on plastic & having to pay on it even when it's sitting in the drive.

Just a few things to consider. Good luck. Steve.
Parent - - By rick harnish (***) Date 12-01-2008 02:52
200 on a skid. Get your Vantage, if you choose, after making the cash with an SA200! Maybe,just maybe, something as awesome as a '65 REDFACE!!! LOL!!
Parent - By raftergwelding (*****) Date 12-01-2008 03:28
or 2 67 redfaces
Parent - - By sbcmweb (****) Date 12-01-2008 04:28
You're bias though!!!!! :-)

Hi Rick! S.W.
Parent - By rick harnish (***) Date 12-02-2008 01:40
Hey Steve!!
Parent - By raftergwelding (*****) Date 12-01-2008 03:27
you can run a suitcae mig welder off a sa 200 just reverse the polarity nad hook up the leads crank the rheostat  and pull the trigger
Parent - By millerman (**) Date 12-01-2008 20:16
nope just did 2 on a 85 and a 74 chevy camper specials are the heavyest springs  gm made
mac
Parent - - By millerman (**) Date 12-01-2008 20:19
a sa will run cc suitcase and if you get the mig mod. 1 about then you could run it in cv welds better in cv than cc but it would work i have a 12 vs exstreme and love it its a 400 amp mig i think  but loves it
thanks
mac
ps this will get a rise   < GO BLUE >  lol
Parent - - By sbcmweb (****) Date 12-01-2008 22:49
If I were him, I would just get a Trailblazer, or Ranger 305. For what he's doing, he wants a mid level industrial multi purpose machine & the SA just isn't practical for that kind of stuff. A GREAT machine, just not a great machine for a guy that wants to run CV MIG & be able to generate AC power. CC MIG has nothing on true CV. Night & day difference as far as I'm concerned. If it was pipeline, yeah, the SA's going to beat just about anything out there, as far as DC SMAW is concerned. For a guy doing maintenance fab & junk iron, wanting the best bang for his buck, the air cooled 300 amp machine's hard to beat. I have one & for what I do, it's perfect. If I was down on the firing line as a pipe welding superstar (which I'm not) I would have an SA in a heartbeat.

Buy the machine that best fits the type of welding you do & buy what you can afford. Upgrade when the need justifies the cost.

Besides, by the time he gets a GOOD SA 200 (NOT some pretty painted turd ready for a $2000 engine overhaul & a new set of shunt coils) PLUS the CV module, he could have bought a brand new Trailblazer with a 3 year warranty & had some left over. You go buying a $2500 SA, you take your chances. Period.

FWIW S.W.
Parent - - By raftergwelding (*****) Date 12-02-2008 02:46
GO BIG OR GO HOME
Parent - - By Cactusthewelder (*****) Date 12-02-2008 10:16
Shad, I went BIG !!
Parent - By raftergwelding (*****) Date 12-03-2008 02:19
yes i know i saw it up front and personal and i used it now i want 1
Parent - - By DaveBoyer (*****) Date 12-01-2008 02:49
Tamper, The skid is a framework that carries the machine, tanks, cables & hoses. This is easy to remove from the truck, but You need machinery that can lift it. You did mention needing to use the truck for other purposes. A trailer, while being a PITA, does leave the truck bed available.

You mentioned heavy equipment repair, how much/heavy air arc gouging do You plan to do? Gas or electric driven compressor? This will influence the machine You need.

You can get a CV module for the Lincoln generator machines to run wire feed.

**OPINION** If You buy a new machine that relies on a load of electronics, You might not want to own it after the waranty is over. If You work steady You will have made Your money off it in that ammount of time. If You are only doing side jobs, in the long haul You might be better off with a simple machine that can be repaired cheaply when the need arises.
Parent - - By rick harnish (***) Date 12-01-2008 02:53
Yeppers on that opinion
Parent - - By pypLynr (***) Date 12-01-2008 03:10
I will second that opinion. Well put my friend.
Parent - - By Tamper (**) Date 12-01-2008 21:40
Thanks everybody. I didnt know that Chevy made a camper speacial also. Yes I am planning on just going with something that i can pay for in cash if this whole deal doesnt work out. And the whole carbon arc deal, well with my experience with them, to me at least, it seems that when you use them, the welder doesnt seem to weld the same way.  So I really dont like them, I have a Smith torch with a #5 scarfing tip that gets the job done for me at least. I will see if I can locate some of those camper special springs around here. And millerman, I am a little more partial to blue myself, but have ran both with success.
Thanks Alot guys!
Parent - - By sbcmweb (****) Date 12-01-2008 23:03
As I had mentioned earlier, for what you want to do & the welding options you are wanting, you would be better off with a Trailblazer or Ranger 305. For what you'll spend on a GOOD SA 200, plus the CV module, you could have a brand new machine with a 3 year warranty. I would go with a skid system, if you have a forklift to take it out, or build a trailer. Not unless you have enough work & or money to put a dedicated welding truck on the road (in addition to your daily driver) & pay the insurance, maintenance, etc.

You can get a good used air cooled CC/CV machine with under 400 hours for around $2500 or less. No sense dumping tons of money out unless you got the work to justify it.

Just a word about carbon arc, since you mentioned it. To do CAC well & not stress your machine to the limit, a minimum of 400 amps is usually the standard. 300 amps just doesn't quite get the job done & 3/16"-1/4" carbons are about the max you are going to run with that much & frankly, the results just aren't what a 400-600 amp machine is going to put out. Little machines like trailblazers & smaller SA's under 300 amps just aren't made for CAC & the risk to causing damage to those machines, maxing them out doing CAC is very high. If you have a good high duty cycle 3 phase CC machine 400 amps or larger, or a big DC engine drive, CAC is one of the best methods available for precisely burning out bad welds, back gouging, heavy demolition, etc. I worked for a contractor that repaired scrap processing machinery & we did a LOT of CAC with 3/8" carbons around 600 amps. There's nothing like it. :-)

Good luck with it!! Steve.
Parent - - By RioCampo (***) Date 12-02-2008 00:04
I would have to second Steve on this. Start out with a trailblazer or 305 G. You can run lights, tools, plasma cutter, etc. etc. You need the machine for the type of work you are going to be doing to be versatile.
You can't beat an SA for pipelining, but that is not the application from your original post. Myself, I have several different machines, I just kind of accumulated them along the way. I use mostly a Pro 300 diesel now, But it compares in price to the vantages. That sounds from your responses a little more that you want to spend starting out.
Good luck.
Parent - By sparkswelding (*) Date 03-18-2010 06:54
trailblazer hell, those are pretty high dollar machines for what this guy is doing a 305 ranger will run about 4000 new but even the bobcat new is around 3000 and runs the suitcase extremely well, and you can find them used for around 1500 to 2500 depending on the shape and hours on the machine. I've put alot of hours in using a suitcase off the bobcat 250 building a frac sand plant and was pretty impressed with the amperage that thing would put out. I believe I was running about 28 to 30 or 32 amps pushing out .035 wire on 1/2 inch plate. Worked out pretty good.
Up Topic Welding Industry / General Welding Discussion / My own Rig...???

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