Not logged inAmerican Welding Society Forum
Forum AWS Website Help Search Login
Up Topic Welding Industry / Inspection & Qualification / Acceptable vs unacceptable fillet welds per Tab 6.1(6)
- - By hburg rocket (*) Date 12-09-2008 18:01
For a specified fillet weld, D1.1 Tab 6.1(6) permits a certain amount of undersized weld, both in "magnitude" and in "quantity". For example, a spec'd 1/4" fillet may be installed as small as a 5/32" [L - U], but only for a max length of 10% of the spec'd length.  Does this mean that for that spec'd 1/4" weld a 3/16" as welded is acceptable for more than 10% of the spec'd length, or even for the entire specified length? 
Parent - - By ctacker (****) Date 12-09-2008 18:34
No, In ALL cases , the undersized portion of the weld shall not exceed 10%.
All is the keyword here.
Parent - - By raptor34 (**) Date 12-09-2008 19:53
I agree with ctacker, the lowest the weld could be is 5/32'' and has to be less than 10%. If it doesnt meet one or both of those requirements then it is bad.
Parent - - By hburg rocket (*) Date 12-09-2008 23:00
In other words, if a spec'd 1/4" fillet was actually 3/16" for 20% of the length, then it should be rejected [even though the deficit of 1/16" did not exceed the 3/32" max]?
Parent - - By supermoto (***) Date 12-10-2008 12:40
As long as we are talking about table 6.1 what do most of you do when it comes to welds that are just plain ugly, but not necessarily undersized, undercut, or overlaped. 

Say I just couldn't find anything wrong with the weld according to 6.1 but that weld just looks inconsistent and ugly, what do most of you do.
Parent - By Lawrence (*****) Date 12-10-2008 13:24 Edited 12-10-2008 13:37
Ugly welds that aren't necessarily rejectable can be a platform for teachable moments.

Having quality workmanship samples prominantly placed is a good way to illustrate expectations as far as cosmetics.

Make some lovely welds, make some ugly welds, make some rejectable welds.. shoot them with clear coat and place them on the wall as a contrast.

An example of a critique of an ugly weld might be something like this:

"A 1/4" fillet weld with just one leg oversized by 1/16 inch will increase weld volume by 25%.  Then break down how much that costs in filler metal and time over a year.  It's a real eye opener.

"A weldment that requires 5/16" fillets that is produced with 3/8" welds is an increas of 44% in weld volume..... Just an extra 1/16 per leg."

"A weldment that requires 3/16 and is produced with 1/4 inch welds is a 77% increase in weld metal volume.."

If the welds exhibit excessive convexity this increases weld metal volume even more. Not to mention the increased stress at the toes of the weld

Examples drawn from the Certified Welding Superviosrs Manual for Quality and Productivity Improvement.
Parent - - By CWI555 (*****) Date 12-10-2008 14:11
That would fall under workmanship.

commentary C-5.1 The criteria contained in clause 5, are intended to provide definition to the producer, supervisor, engineer and welder of what constitutes good workmanship during fabrication and erection. Compliance with the criteria is achievable and expected.

Therefore, clause 5 (chapter 5) unless modified by contracts is a requirement inspectors should know. If the workmanship concern is not specifically prohibited (groove angle prep figure 5.3, gouge or notch limitations para 5.15.4.4, 5.18.4 additional tack weld requirements, 5.22 tolerance of joint dimensions fig 5.4 etc) Then the weld should be accepted.

Therefore to answer your question, there is no criteria in D1.1 2008 or any other year I am aware of for "ugly" and therefore I don't reject it without a specific criteria in writing from which to assess it for acceptance or rejection.

Regards,
Gerald
Parent - By hogan (****) Date 12-10-2008 17:22
I agree with CWI555. But I always make mention that the welds are ugly but acceptable.
Parent - - By hburg rocket (*) Date 12-15-2008 15:55
Pardon my 'dull-ness', but are you saying that for a spec'd 1/4" fillet, that if it is installed as a 3/16" fillet for 20% of the spec'd length, then it should be rejected?  I guess my difficulty is with the meaning of "undersized":  does "undersize" mean "U" [per Tab 6.1] or does it mean ANYTHING that is measurably less than that specified, even if greater than "U"?  [Note:  I more than realize the 'practicality' of getting too precise in inspections of this nature.]
Parent - By swnorris (****) Date 12-15-2008 17:26
Per the AISC COSP, even ugly welds in an AESS member that are exposed to view are acceptable as long as they meet minimum D1.1 criteria, except that groove and plug welds cannot project more than 1/16" above an exposed surface.  Also, there may be more stringent visual requirements noted in the contract documents. 
Parent - - By ctacker (****) Date 12-15-2008 18:37
hburg, yes.
For a 1/4" weld, NOTHING can be less than the allowable decrease (5/32") in size. and anything between 1/4" and 5/32" cannot exceed 10% of the weld length.
so if you have a 3/16" weld for 20% when a 1/4" weld is called for it is rejectable.

Hope that makes more sense to you!

Carl
Parent - By hburg rocket (*) Date 12-16-2008 14:19
ctacker, thanks a bunch!  I have finally "seen tha light".
Up Topic Welding Industry / Inspection & Qualification / Acceptable vs unacceptable fillet welds per Tab 6.1(6)

Powered by mwForum 2.29.2 © 1999-2013 Markus Wichitill