Anti spatter spray...Don't Use?

Date 12-18-2008 20:04

I have often seen porosity with GMAW and FCAW. I have often seen Porosity,and LOF with short circuiting GMAW. If I have the say so, I never allow it to be used, except on the inside of the gun cup and on the contact tip.

By jrw159

Date 12-18-2008 20:05

Keith,
Just out of couriosity, what kind of audit and by whom? Not that it really matters, the answer is, if not used properly, yes it can cause problems. IE overusage and not allowing the product to dry. I was told by a rep from weld-kleen that overusage is the biggest problem, and that while he loves the extra money, 90% of customers use WAY more then necessary.

However if used correctly, there should be no ill effects as a result.

jrw159 :-)

By Ke1thk

Date 12-18-2008 20:19

JRW159,

It was a TACOM audit. The Depart of Defense. The part was an air flow tube with brackets. Basic steel, very basic part.

Keith

By Lawrence (*****)

Date 12-18-2008 20:36

So Misuse can certainly cause problems as outlined above.

Since it is a Mil-Spec job I guess the best place to start is:

Was anti-spat used when the procedures were developed...?

If you have the anti-spat listed on the PQR than I think your auditor should have a look at that. Then ask him to reevaluate his opinion.

If you diddn't use anti-spat when you qualified the procedure than the auditor may have a valid point, depending on the spec.

The moral of the story, which you prolly already know...... Good process control on weldments of "basic steel and very basic parts" ought to produce spatter free welds without spray :)

By Ke1thk

Date 12-19-2008 12:49 Edited 12-19-2008 12:51

Lawrence,

Your right, a good procedure should produce welds with little, if any spatter. And no, I didn't include the anti spatter in the PQR.

The audit was for a new customer. The customer makes parts for the Government. A TACOM representative witnessed the new customer's reps weld audit. The owner of my company told me to make them happy.

We've made parts for the government for 30 years. We have an in-house government Quality Assurance Representative. The TACOM rep and the new customer wouldn't recognize him. He was out ranked. Even though, both the new customer and the TACOM rep had extensive welding experience.

We were attempting to get four parts using three different codes approved with PQR's. The TACOM rep had issue with one of the PQR weld samples. He wanted another sample. I had metal ready and an open weld station, so we went into the shop. I wanted them to leave that day with success. We need the business.

I grabbed one of my best welders and we went to the station. The customer and the TACOM rep were actively engaged with the welder. They offered advice, pointers, and encouragement to the welder and myself. He was nervous. We welded three different sets of samples, one my way, one the welder's way, and one the TACOM reps way. It was a complete group effort.

I've always cut and etched my macro samples using a belt sander and muratic acid. I'd let them soak for about an hour. My new customer suggested 2% nitric acid. He claims the developing time is seconds. The TACOM rep was actually buffing the parts with a 90* air sander using Scotch Bright pads, I never new that. I think that my two visitors were having fun.

Near the end of the shop visit is where the TACOM rep spotted the anti spatter. He picked it up and said, "Never use this." He went on and on. He said it could cause porosity below the weld surface. And that's where the audit ended.

I also agree with anti spatter overuse. I did call the manufacture of the anti spatter about a year ago. I was trying to reduce spatter while welding a flange to 2" tube using my GMAW robot. The manufacture said the spatter was probably caused by improper torch angle. He actually talked me out of buying a 50-gallon drum of his product. I think it was Safety Kleen. I changed my torch angles to as close to 45*, and my travel angles to as close to 15* as possible (His suggestion). Amazing. No spatter.

It's my experience during an audit to give the auditor the low hanging fruit. I want them happy. I want to be as helpful as possible. I want the business!

Thanks for all your help,
Keith

By Lawrence (*****)

Date 12-19-2008 13:15

Keith,

Sounds like a pretty tight ship!

Your job sounds like a fun and very interesting one,,,, lots of challenges and lots of big fish, but still a good atmosphere..... pretty rare these days!