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Up Topic Chit-Chat & Non-Welding Discussion / Off-Topic Bar and Grill / Good thing I can weld
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- - By rick harnish (***) Date 01-08-2009 15:40
Any mechanics out there? I bought a 84 GMC dually farm truck. 454 granny 4 speed. It hasn't been registered since 2000, so I assume it has been sitting quite a bit. The truck ran fairly well when I drove it to its new resting place. If I let it idle to long, it would die. BUT IT RAN!! Noticed some cracked wires and had a $100 burning a hole in my pocket. Replaced the plugs,gapped correctly, new wires, cap and rotor. Wouldnt fire. Bought a Chiltons to insure the wires were installed correctly. Yep, they are right. Figured I must have screwed up the coil somehow. $70 later it still wont fire! Considerable cursing doesnt seem to have any effect. Due to a local drought, I cant cut my losses any set it on fire. Any knowledge would certainly be helpful.
Parent - By Johnyutah (**) Date 01-08-2009 15:44
Have you checked to make sure you have power to the coil.
Parent - By Kix (****) Date 01-08-2009 16:29
It has to be something in the firing system.  Do you have the firing order correct on cap (It may be 180 out)? Do you have the plugs going to the right cylinders?
Parent - - By Mikeqc1 (****) Date 01-08-2009 17:02 Edited 01-08-2009 17:39
dID YOU VERIFY THAT THERE IS NO SPARK (sometimes i just stick a screw driver into the plug wire grab it and have a buddy crank it over to his amusement). if you have spark fule is the next thing id check i had an older modle GMC with a hybrid carb of sorts the truck would not run if the "injectors" didnt get any power. mine had a 4 BBL but the primaries were electrical and the truck would not start if they didnt get juice.
MDK
Parent - - By dmilesdot (**) Date 01-08-2009 17:11
With new wires I would check to see if the distributor cap end has enough wire or contact piece sticking out to make contact down in the cap.   I would especialy check the coil end.  If it was running beore you did anything to it, it has to be something you changed.  Does it even try to start?  Or is it only turning over by the starter?  Did you take the distributor out? If so you could have put it back in a tooth off, you would know this because it would try to start or backfire through the carb.
Good luck
Dave
Parent - - By RioCampo (***) Date 01-08-2009 20:03
What about the button in the top of the cap to the rotor? It comes in a separate package, still in box with new cap.
Parent - By Tamper (**) Date 01-08-2009 21:33
Well I can tell you if when you do get it running and idle. When it warms up and stalls, your coil is bad. At least from my experience. And like everyone else said, it could be the button. Take the cap off and clean up the contacts on the distributor. Take a piece of sandpaper and clean em up.
Parent - - By RonG (****) Date 01-08-2009 22:40
rick, you say "wont fire". Assuming you checked that at the coil wire-pulled the Dist. end out of the cap while cranking matters not if it has a rotor in it when checked that way.

That age of GM ignition had a bad habit of failing due to over temp of the MODULE in the Dist. No warning, not even a hick-up or any hint. Every thing working just fine until to you turn it off and came back a little later and it will not run because the Module failed. The cure is to make sure there is plenty of Silicon under it when you mount it to help transfer the heat.

Also there is a Oil seal down on the Dist shaft that can wear out but it will let you know its going out.
Parent - - By unclematt (***) Date 01-08-2009 23:58
RonG;
I was also thinking of the module. My Dad had an old '77 Chevrolet and it left him on the side of the road one day. We fought and fought the thing but couldn't figure it out. We called a neighbor, who had a lot of experience with Chevrolet and he had it running in five minutes. From then on, my Dad carried a spare module in the truck.

Rick;
I hope you get it going. That year model with the granny four-speed is my favorite. Not much on gas mileage, but they were fun. Good luck

Matt
Parent - By rick harnish (***) Date 01-09-2009 17:23
Thanks ya'll! I will check out the module! That has to be the problem, its all thats left!
Parent - By CHGuilford (****) Date 01-09-2009 17:55
Generally the problems are no fuel or no spark.  It could be that sludge got stirred up and plugged the fuel system. I'd first try ether in the carburator (I know - spelling), or in the intake manifold if fuel injected (don't blow it up).  If that fires briefly then you know which system to look at. 
Parent - - By J Hall (***) Date 01-11-2009 18:14 Edited 01-11-2009 18:18
Check to be sure that the plug is connected to the coil. Sometimes the spade connectors will be off a little after changing the cap and they won't make contact in the connector.
You did move the center stud to the new cap, right?

I'm assuming that since it is an'84 that it has  the original HEI ignition.  Next step would be the module.
Parent - - By rick harnish (***) Date 01-12-2009 04:15
Yeah, it came with a new stud I installed. Seems the module is the next step. Just dont understand how it suddenly went out, when it ran before I messed with it. Guess the electrical seal under it may have broken as I messed with it. Thanks again for all the advice!   Oh yeah, I will look at the spade connectors again, but Im almost positive the connected.
Parent - By Sourdough (****) Date 01-12-2009 23:12
Check your choke.
Parent - - By raftergwelding (*****) Date 01-13-2009 15:52
those old chevys are my fav too and i agree it's in the module get a new mod and it should fire right up keep us posted on how it works out an 84 model should not be fuel injected they didnt come out with fuel injection until 1987 in them old chevys
Parent - - By rick harnish (***) Date 01-13-2009 17:17
Yeah, its a big 'ol 4 barrel. I hit the throttle manually to check for fuel and I swear 3 gallons of fuel went into that carb. I still hope to get in the double digits in mileage, but I doubt it. Of course, right now it is quite miserly! Have not used a drop of fuel since the tuneup! LOL! Wanting to mess with it more, but my outgoing cashflow has currently exceeded my income. Stupid economy!! Stupid $34 a barrel oil!
Parent - - By Cactusthewelder (*****) Date 01-13-2009 17:36
It will go back up
Parent - By rick harnish (***) Date 01-13-2009 17:55
Hope so.
Parent - - By hotrodtodd (**) Date 01-13-2009 23:17
did you get my PM what are the sounds and reactions when trying to turn over?? kick back on starter ?backfire through carb? or exhuast? wires on the terminals i told you? PM or call me (580)548-6794 PS I hate to be the bearer of bad news but ive had dozens of these with big blocks and have never got double digits on old carbed ones, newer injected Tonawanda equipped  models with OD can get better than 10
Parent - - By rick harnish (***) Date 01-14-2009 00:17
PM sent. Thanks hotrodtodd!
On a side note, while I was sitting in the cab frustrated, my wife called. While I was chatting with her I checked the horn. It worked! Things are looking up! Turned on the ignition and checked the wipers. Success!! They refuse to shut off though. Had to pull the fuse! LOL!! My work is cut out for me!
Parent - By rick harnish (***) Date 01-14-2009 00:20
Yeah, I knew single digits were my reality. Lucky its gonna be my beat around truck. ( Like within 10 square miles at first! Cant put my buddies out too bad if they need to pull me home!)
Parent - - By raftergwelding (*****) Date 01-14-2009 22:26
yeap it's the module it happened to me many time when i was a kid last time i bought 1 it was around 70.00 they might have gone down by now you can check napa oriellys and auto zone on line to see what hey go for as for mileage if it had a big block and it's tuned right you can get double digits fuel mileage out of it if the mixture is done right at the carb and it's tuned up i got 12 out of mine and i had a 454 bored 30 over with a crane rv cam and a crane roller bearing timing chain it had 12-1 compression and would out run anything but a gas station until i learned to keep my foot out of it but man it was fun when i rigged it out the mileage dropped to 9
Parent - - By rick harnish (***) Date 01-14-2009 22:46
'Sup, Shad?
Parent - - By raftergwelding (*****) Date 01-14-2009 22:57
making the county stock show circut this week with my daughter and her chickens she got 3rd place and reserve champion showmanship not to bad a run for her first year and now she is hooked lol imagine that. other than that i'm pretty much idel right now gonna call supplier tomorrow or monday and tell him to add me to his rig runners list til things pick up what you up to
Parent - - By rick harnish (***) Date 01-14-2009 23:40
Thats great! Congrats to your daughter! Good chickens and awesome showmanship!
Rigrunner? Explain!
Finished every thing I could locally. More coming, but not in time. Trying to find a job that wont have me in North Dakota! Pretty rough with everyone looking, though.
Would like to stay somewhat local so I can run home now and then to mess with this truck! Oh yeah, and see my family, too. LOL! But I am looking nationwide, just trying to avoid the Northern border!
Parent - - By leterburn (**) Date 01-15-2009 00:04
Not too bad now that the snow has stopped - and wind has settled down a bit - only -16F out there right now.  Lucky
Parent - - By rick harnish (***) Date 01-15-2009 01:58
negative 16.... any wind? The wind is what makes me wonder if ya'll are aware there are other places to live! Negative 16...bad. Negative 16 with even 10mph wind...torture!! I damaged the nerves in my hands or something while I was there. They now begin to numb around 45 degrees. If you can stay in the hooch you may live!
Parent - By leterburn (**) Date 01-15-2009 15:00
Yeah, some... most of the contractors are presently trying to bury the lines we've done before the holidays - supposed to warm up here in the next couple of days, it'd be a good time to kick off another line but doubt anyone is ready where I am.  We were actually out -19F w/ a bit of wind according to xray week before xmas - Lucky
Parent - - By drifter57 (**) Date 01-15-2009 13:14
-16 yesterday. How bout today? -29  here, looks  like it is -38 in Minot N.D. according to the news. BRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRR
Parent - By leterburn (**) Date 01-15-2009 15:01
prob -38 w/ windchill - which still means it'll only get down to actual temp as I write this at 9 a.m. of -26F a little faster than if there's no wind.  Not working today - waiting for more line to get buried to do tie ins - everyone is trying to get line buried.  Lucky
Parent - - By raftergwelding (*****) Date 01-15-2009 00:13
chasing rigs rick going from home to 1 rig than another and doing repairs i can make it on about 3-4 calls a week til things pick up
Parent - - By rick harnish (***) Date 01-15-2009 00:19
Good Lord. Gotta pay the bills.
Parent - - By raftergwelding (*****) Date 01-15-2009 00:24
1 way or another they'll get paid just the way i am it'll come always does
Parent - By Superflux (****) Date 01-15-2009 04:49 Edited 01-15-2009 04:58
Check the catalytic converter, since we don't have annual emissions checks out here I've always cut them out, bypassed, and gone with 3" exhaust on a big block. You can also get a carburator spacer, which is a poor boys hi-rise manifold, KN performance air cleaner kit and you've added a few more ponies to the team. After sitting awhile, any old one can plug up with soot and rust. It's symptoms are just like an ornery module, sometimes it will work and sometimes it wont.
Here's the test...cut the exhaust pipe upstream of the converter, where you think it would be easiest to reweld it, see if engine runs. As a secondary test, reverse a shop vac to blow, duct-tape it to the tailpipe and check for flow.
Yeah, I'm guessing choked up, crapped up catalyst.
Parent - - By millerman (**) Date 01-15-2009 04:48
being somewhay of a  mechanic <poor boy> it really sound s like ya gat a bad coil or a bad ing. mod  let it run till it dies then pour some water on the cap in a steady stream and if it starts then it is in the cap  < coil , or ing mod.
imho
mac
Parent - - By rick harnish (***) Date 01-15-2009 16:16
It has a new cap and coil. Module is the only thing I didnt replace.
Parent - - By Cumminsguy71 (*****) Date 01-15-2009 19:43
You can take the module down the the "zone" and they can test it on their little machine. I've done that many times and it's free! I've replace many of those modules working on OPS around the house and at the GM dealer when I was there scraping knuckles for pennies on the dollar.
Parent - - By rick harnish (***) Date 01-15-2009 19:56
I will do that! What about the conductive seal under it?
Parent - - By raftergwelding (*****) Date 01-16-2009 06:04
it's a non adhesive silicone ask them if they have any when ya get it tested but i'm sure it's fried
Parent - - By rick harnish (***) Date 01-19-2009 20:38
The truck is purring like the proverbial kitten. Thanks for the input! It was the module. Sure got the chance to understand the HEI system! I will be likely to lean on ya'll some more as the restoration process begins. Thanks again!
Parent - - By rick harnish (***) Date 01-19-2009 20:46
Oh yeah, noticed something while I was messing around under the hood today. Very minor deal, considering everything else the truck will need, but when I hit the truck hard with the throttle linkage, the secondarys didnt open. If I remember correctly, they dont open unless under a load. What do ya'll think?
Parent - - By RonG (****) Date 01-19-2009 23:41
Probably a Quadrajet??? If so  the secondary's open by pressure differential or on demand so to speak. Glad you got it running, hope you can afford to feed it.

I have always been partial to the 350 but have had to make all of them work at one time or another.

I got a lot of them figured out so as to not waste much motion, just go straight to the problem but I really had strange one once that every one swore up and down the fuel pump (in the tank) had gone out.

That didn't make sense since was running (idle and rev up just fine)(fuel pressure up to speck for TBI) just would not always develop needed power. When you step down on it, it would pause and then put you in the back seat then cough and sputter and sometimes back fire through the Carburator (TBI).

Turned out to have a crack in the hose that connects the fuel pump to the fuel line. Fuel pump sits on the bottom of the tank so when the tank was full it did not leak so much to be a problem but the lower the fuel level got the more it would act up.

I guess I'm ramblin, Have a good one.
Parent - - By rick harnish (***) Date 01-20-2009 01:54
Carbs a Rochester, but I understand what you are saying. Thats what I was remembering.
You were not rambling. This is all good info. Thanks! May see the same later and remember what to look for!
Parent - - By DaveBoyer (*****) Date 01-20-2009 03:09
Quadra Jet was what Rochester called the 4 barrel carbs in the good old days. All the GM engines used them. The secondary will not open if there is not enough vaccuum, so it will not open if the engine is not running.
Parent - - By rick harnish (***) Date 01-20-2009 04:14
Yeah, reckon you are right about the Q jet. Like I said, been awhile since Ive played with such toys. Forgot more than I ever Knew! LOL!
But hey, the engine was running when I manually hit the throttle. No response from the secondarys. Normal? Seems the more I think back that you could see 'em open. Would not be even close to surprised if I had vacuum issues. Whacha think?
Parent - By raftergwelding (*****) Date 01-20-2009 15:38
i cant remember which side its on but theres a little rod that the secondaries ride on if you want to open when ya punch it bend that rod down and you will hear and feel them open if ya cant figure it out make the trip and i'll do it for ya all you need is a pair of pliers or needle nose i have the tools it bithered me on a 78 3/4 ton i souped up and they would not open alloweing the truck to it's full potential i figured it out and boy did it run after that
Parent - - By DaveBoyer (*****) Date 01-21-2009 01:11
The ones I was familliar with were a bit older, they would open if You dumped the throttle wide open real fast and held it there. Yours might be newer enough to be different.
Parent - By raftergwelding (*****) Date 01-21-2009 15:46
i had a 78 chevy 3/4 ton i had to do it too well not really but i was a kid and had to have the extra lol and then the 86 1 ton i had you dont really need to bend it for them to work but if ya want to hear the romp and get a lil more out of the motor it helps as long as the carb is set right if it aint it will fall on it's tail
Parent - - By raftergwelding (*****) Date 01-21-2009 15:48
come on rick bring it by you aint doing nothing anyway and i wanna tinker with it and then drive it lol i have a chance to buy an old dog thats been restored for 3500 sure wish i had the cash would make a nice back up rig and bring back some old memories
Parent - - By rick harnish (***) Date 01-22-2009 03:33
Cant do it. Must install some sort of braking device first. Thanks though Shad!
Later we will talk more of upgrading my 65!
God, I am so far from being a mechanic!
Up Topic Chit-Chat & Non-Welding Discussion / Off-Topic Bar and Grill / Good thing I can weld
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