By 803056 
Date 01-17-2009 21:58
Edited 01-19-2009 02:33
Just let me know where the vessel will be located so I can avoid stopping there during my travels.
The fabricator has one thing in mind; make it fast, make the maximum amount of profit, and ship it. Many fabricators/manufacturers operate with the "you cannot see it from my house" philosophy. In other words they live far enough away that if something catastrophic happens, they'll be a safe distance away. They will also be protected (for the most part) as an employee of a large company that would be presumably insured should anything unfortunate happen.
I assume you are representing the owner as an employee or third party. You have to act in the best interest of your employer, your family, and with the safety of the general public in mind. All too often people forget the "public safety" aspect of our work and the innocent are the victims that suffer the consequences.
You, as the owner's representative should be setting the standards of quality through the project specifications which may reference a code such as ASME B&PV Code or another nationally recognized construction standard. Another good place for you to look are material specification published by ASTM or like organization. They publish quality standards as well as material specifications that describe the level of quality required for raw materials. The material specifications are typically referenced by the project specification so all interested parties know what is expected.
Accepting a manufacturer's self-imposed standard is like playing with a loaded pistol. It's OK if you are pointing it toward someone else, but I wouldn't advise you to point it at your own head.
Best regards - Al
Just to make sure I undertand you post:
The vendor is claiming that they do not have to repair any discontinuites that aren't at least 32" long and at least 2" deep, unless they are cracks?
That sounds very strange me. They should be using acceptance criteria from an accepted industry standard. What was the vessel designed to. The same code should be used for fabrication and inspection requiremnts.
I agree with you. I have'nt any experience with material of this thickness and before I tell a supplier that he's full of it, I wanted to hear if any one has heard of such rubbish.
You're gonna play hell getting an AI to sign off on that one. No AI, no code stamp.
I see that Mr. Daon is from Israel. It's quite possible that his vessel hasn't been designed and constructed according to ASME VIII, but according to some other standard (for example, AD Merkblatter). Now, does this hypothetical standard allows a discontinuity 2 inches deep and 32 inches long to be kept in place? I doubt it seriously.
Giovanni S. Crisi
Sao Paulo - Brazil
Boy did I screw up. It turns out that the manufacturer has every intention of adhering to code quality requirement. The argument is regarding communication with the client. The manufacturer splits defects into major and minor (both requiring repairs). Major defects require an NCR and to notify and involve the client. Minor defects (as described in the initial question) require repair without notifying and involving the client. The client on his part wants to be informed of all repairs that were performed on his vessel (especially a crack 500 mm long-which is designated a "minor repair"). So the question is: What is normal practice in customer-client relations regarding the identification and reporting of found and repaired defects? Should there be a difference of where and how long a defect was (don't forget we're talking about 250 mm thick 2-1/4 Cr pressure vessel) and what was done to resolve the problem.
Thanks guys and sorry for causing confusion.
C. Daon
Daon,
There are no technical terms minor or major repair.
There is either a discontinuity that is acceptable to the code or a defect which is not acceptable to the code.
The code or specification should stipulate the required amount of volumetric NDT testing - whether it is UT or RT.
These NDT reports should be readily accessible to the client.
I would be very surprised on a profect of this magnitude if there was not a client representative stationed at the fabricators premises who would review NDT reports daily.
Even though a repair is a Non Conformance an NCR is usually only issued if there is a large amount of repairs or if there is something noticeable that has been done that has reduced the quality of the welding.
Hope that helps,
Regards,
Shane
After having read Shane's answer, clear and complete, there's nothing I can add.
Giovanni S. Crisi
Thanks Giovanni,
Compliments of the Season to you.
In fact, Best wishes for ' 09 to all the members of the forum.
Regards,
Shane
Thank you all, Gentlemen. I will, as suggested, recomend an indepentent inspector (hopefully me) to monitor the work.
