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Up Topic Chit-Chat & Non-Welding Discussion / Off-Topic Bar and Grill / 4.1 b to go to ACHORN
- - By michael kniolek (***) Date 01-27-2009 21:08
I see Obama is wasting no time in doing all the things that half of our country knew he would.
Parent - - By BryonLewis (****) Date 01-27-2009 21:14
What?
Parent - - By michael kniolek (***) Date 01-27-2009 22:32
the Democrats  bail out bill makes groups like ACORN eligible for a $4.19 billion pot of money for "neighborhood stabilization activities."
House Democrats are taking the unprecedented step of making ACORN and other groups eligible for these funds.
Parent - - By raftergwelding (*****) Date 01-27-2009 22:47
within a year there wont be nothing left and then all hell will break loose
Parent - - By hogan (****) Date 01-27-2009 22:57
Would not that be the point of the bail out? That there would be nothing left? Should the money be kept under a mattress?
Parent - - By raftergwelding (*****) Date 01-27-2009 23:08
seems to me if all the companies need the money cause they cant make it thru the hard times whats gonna happen when the bail out money runs out? Why not give us the working people some too? We are struggling through these hard times. They give it to the big co's to stay in bussiness but if nobody is working and cant make any money whos gonna buy their stuff?
Parent - - By OBrien (***) Date 01-27-2009 23:16
It probably would of been cheeper to give every tax payer $100k.  Then most of us would own our house, car/truck, pay off credit cards, and maybe even a new boat.  I think it would of been easier and it would of paid off all my bills and I would be buying a house.  Just my 2cents
Parent - By raftergwelding (*****) Date 01-27-2009 23:24
I'm with ya on that 1. I could get my wife back in a house that we would eventually own and have a place to call home
Parent - - By Metarinka (****) Date 01-27-2009 23:42
from my understanding, the reasoning behind keeping key industries and players afloat is because if they fail the economy suffers in indirect ways, such as if the commercial airline industry failed, it would prevent people from affordably traveling cross country which can have severe impacts on other buisnesses. Also most of those corporations hire thousands of individuals and they are still getting paid.  It's true demand needs to be increased so that somoene starts buying products but if there's no industries it's hard to even make a product.

This is however, no excuse for poorly run companies to get huge bailouts or waste bailout money. For example the Merrill lynch ceo spent 1.2 Million to rennovate his office right before they slashed thousands of jobs and dumped companies during the financial crisis. http://www.thedailybeast.com/blogs-and-stories/2009-01-22/john-thains-87000-rug/    He also whined for his 10 million dollar bonus while they company was hemoragging money.   Really though these are symptoms of the super star treatment and inflatted pay of CEO's.  American buisness has invested too much power and culture around CEO's where they are treated like rock stars, vastly infating their worth and compensation. While it's true good (or bad) management can make or break a company there has yet to be a good economic justification of the compensation for top CEO's,  as well as reducing compensation packages that lead Managers to make bad buisness decisions in order to get bonuse.   For an example of super star CEO's, when people talk about Apple they always refer to Steve Jobs and not directly about the company. Same goes for Bill Gates.

I hope that what ever economic package that is delivered works, if not we face a long term recession.  This is the same thing that happened to the Japanese economy during the late 80's and it took them a decade to recover.

In terms of huge tax refunds or bonuses to citizens, I'm definately not against them and I could never complain about money being handed too me. However at  this immediate point in time giving money to the consumers would not prevent certain key industries from failing.  It is a great way to bolster demand, but not every industry is built on demand from private consumers. In fact if we gave everyone 100K, besides creating artifically high inflation there's no garauntee it would be focused on the industries that are on the brink of failure.

I'm in favour of a mixture of both, what ever happens, should be done soon though
Parent - By BryonLewis (****) Date 01-28-2009 03:04
I do believe in giving money to US.  The problem is that it still won't be enough.  It would help but not that much.  With bills being behind are mortgages being nearly foreclosed it will take a hell of a lot of money to each individual family to first get caught up then some extra to actually buy new stuff.  A bone to a starving man won't help much.  It might get him to tomorrow but what about next week?
Parent - - By js55 (*****) Date 01-28-2009 16:57
hogan,
Keep in mind there is no mattress. Most of this money, if not all, doesn't even exist yet. We'll just print all we need.
Parent - - By js55 (*****) Date 01-28-2009 17:00
Also, how bout 400 million for contraception?
Now I understand the logic behind preventing another generation of mortgage debtors, but this will take some time to realize.
I read that Obama is confident the bill will pass.
Well duh!!!
So much for "No Pork" eh?
Parent - - By Mikeqc1 (****) Date 01-28-2009 17:39
LET'S THINK ABOUT THIS ABORTION THING,
A BABY CAN BE HEALTHY GROWING IN THE SAFETY OF THE WOMB; THIS CHILD IS SIMPLY WAITING TO BE BORN.
A KNOWN TERRORIST CAN BE SICK, PERVERTED, A MURDERER, A HATE MONGER AND HE WAITS TO KILL MORE AMERICANS.

Obama on the terrorist issue............let the terrorists go from gitmo send them to any country that will take them, extend constitutional rights to them protect them.

Obama on abortion.........My administration will fund the killing of children @ the expense of taxpayers.( ill just bet that the countries he will help with abortion are mostly "Christian" nations, who needs those moral caring jerks anyway)

So I see it like this...... Obama feels these terrorists have rights and he will do anything to extend them these rights, but a child in the womb is nothing more than growth that can be removed and forgotten.
Killers with more rights than innocent babies (good is bad and bad is good) .
Obamas Mass murder and  genocide?
MDK
Parent - - By uphill (***) Date 01-28-2009 18:16
Lets not forget that obamma will revert to his muslim beleif when trouble arises, at least according to his book.

Abortion is killing and we should not pay for murder(except for the death penalty)
 
The billions will insure we will never have elections with legal voters again ( not like the last event).

Help the old USA  and the hell with the rest of the world,s fake concerns.

Sorry the whole new world order has tilted my view of our future.
Parent - - By Mikeqc1 (****) Date 01-28-2009 18:23
FROM A 2001 ARTICLE
PAY ATTENTION TO #8
SO MUCH OF THIS HAS BEEN DONE

A refugee from the Muslim Middle East thinks he has discovered Islam's 20-point plan for conquering the United States by 2020 - a plan revealed in the latest issue of Joseph Farah's G2 Bulletin.
Anis Shorrosh, author of ''Islam Revealed'' and ''The True Furqan,'' is a Christian Arab-American who emigrated from Arab-controlled Jerusalem in January 1967.

''The following is my analysis of Islamic invasion of America, the agenda of Islamists and visible methods to take over America by the year 2020,'' Shorrosh says. ''Will Americans continue to sleep through this invasion as they did when we were attacked on 9/11?''

1. Terminate America's freedom of speech by replacing it with statewide and nationwide hate-crime bills.

2. Wage a war of words using black leaders like Louis Farrakhan, Rev. Jesse Jackson and other visible religious personalities who promote Islam as the religion of African-Americans while insisting Christianity is for whites only. What they fail to tell African-Americans is that it was Arab Muslims who captured them and sold them as slaves. In fact, the Arabic word for black and slave is the same, ''Abed.''

3. Engage the American public in dialogues, discussions, debates in colleges, universities, public libraries, radio, TV, churches and mosques on the virtues of Islam. Proclaim how it is historically another religion like Judaism and Christianity with the same monotheistic faith.

4. Nominate Muslim sympathizers to political office to bring about favorable legislation toward Islam and support potential sympathizers by block voting.

5. Take control of as much of Hollywood, the press, TV, radio and the Internet as possible by buying the related corporations or a controlling stock.

6. Yield to the fear of the imminent shut-off of the lifeblood of America - black gold. America's economy depends on oil and 41 percent of it comes from the Middle East.

7. Yell ''foul, out-of-context, personal interpretation, hate crime, Zionist, un- American, inaccurate interpretation of the Quran'' anytime Islam is criticized or the Quran is analyzed in the public arena.

8. Encourage Muslims to penetrate the White House, specifically with Islamists who can articulate a marvelous and peaceful picture of Islam. Acquire government positions and get membership in local school boards. Train Muslims as medical doctors to dominate the medical field, research and pharmaceutical companies. (Ever notice how numerous Muslim doctors in America are, when their countries need them more desperately than America?) Take over the computer industry. Establish Middle Eastern restaurants throughout the U.S. to connect planners of Islamization in a discreet way.

9. Accelerate Islamic demographic growth via:

Massive immigration (100,000 annually since 1961).

Use no birth control whatsoever - every baby of Muslim parents is automatically a Muslim and cannot choose another religion later.

Muslim men must marry American women and Islamize them (10,000 annually). Then divorce them and remarry every five years - since one can't legally marry four at one time. This is a legal solution in America.

Convert angry, alienated black inmates and turn them into militants (so far 2,000 released inmates have joined al-Qaida worldwide). Only a few ''sleeper cells'' have been captured in Afghanistan and on American soil.
10. Reading, writing, arithmetic and research through the American educational system, mosques and student centers (now 1,500) should be sprinkled with dislike of Jews, evangelical Christians and democracy. There are currently 300 exclusively Muslim schools in the U.S. which teach loyalty to the Quran, not the U.S. Constitution. In January of 2002, Saudi Arabia's Embassy in Washington mailed 4,500 packets of the Quran and videos promoting Islam to America's high schools - free of charge. Saudi Arabia would not allow the U.S. to reciprocate.

11. Provide very sizeable monetary Muslim grants to colleges and universities in America to establish ''Centers for Islamic studies'' with Muslim directors to promote Islam in higher-education institutions.

12. Let the entire world know through propaganda, speeches, seminars, local and national media that terrorists have hijacked Islam, when in truth, Islam hijacked the terrorists.

13. Appeal to the historically compassionate and sensitive Americans for sympathy and tolerance towards Muslims in America who are portrayed as mainly immigrants from oppressed countries.

14. Nullify America's sense of security by manipulating the intelligence community with misinformation. Periodically terrorize Americans with reports of impending attacks on bridges, tunnels, water supplies, airports, apartment buildings and malls.

15. Form riots and demonstrations in the prison system demanding Islamic Sharia as the way of life, not America's justice system.

16. Open numerous charities throughout the U.S., but use the funds to support Islamic terrorism with American dollars.

17. Raise interest in Islam on America's campuses by insisting freshman take at least one course on Islam.

18. Unify the numerous Muslim lobbies in Washington, mosques, Islamic student centers, educational organizations, magazines and papers by Internet and an annual convention to coordinate plans, propagate the faith and engender news in the media.

19. Send intimidating messages and messengers to the outspoken individuals who are critical of Islam and seek to eliminate them by hook or crook.

20. Applaud Muslims as loyal citizens of the U.S. by spotlighting their voting record as the highest percentage of all minority and ethic groups in America.
Parent - - By hogan (****) Date 01-28-2009 19:57
Holy crap only 12 years left for the USA. Fear is very powerful
Parent - - By Mikeqc1 (****) Date 01-28-2009 19:59
U DONT THINK IT COULD HAPPEN?
mdk
Parent - - By hogan (****) Date 01-28-2009 20:14
Not as this scared S*!#less author has presented it.
Parent - - By Mikeqc1 (****) Date 01-28-2009 20:20 Edited 01-28-2009 20:24
FUNNY LOOKS LIKE A LOT OF THIS HAS HAPPENED..........................................
PERHAPS PEOPLE ARE RIGHT.................WE SHOULD BURRY OUR HEADS IN THE SAND IT'S SAFER THAT WAY, FOR INSANCE WHAT IF WE WERE PAYING ATTENTION B4 911 THEY MAY HAVE KILLED 9,000 PEOPLE INSTEAD.
Parent - By hogan (****) Date 01-28-2009 20:38
I started to pay attention when embassies were bombed. I really started to pay attention the Cole was hit. I'm not burying my head in the sand, just trying to look at the entire picture.
Parent - By uphill (***) Date 01-28-2009 20:44
Here is some new UN policy thinking.

http://www.jewishworldreview.com/cols/hentoff012809.php3

Just more info, lots of it out there.
Parent - By Metarinka (****) Date 01-29-2009 01:00
not a chance?  Muslims are about as divided as christians, and such a minority in the US, I'm about 0% afraid of them taking over
Parent - - By kipman (***) Date 01-28-2009 21:57
Don't worry Hogan, the world won't last long enough to see that come about.  According to the ancient Mayan calendar and Nostradamus, the world will end on December 21, 2012.  I saw it on the History channel, so it must be true.
Parent - By hogan (****) Date 01-28-2009 22:25
I am amazed sometimes at what the history channel claims as true history or fact!
Parent - - By BryonLewis (****) Date 01-28-2009 23:48
I heard that the Mayas made a calendar that lasted for as certain period of time, like most calendars.  The problem with this one is that a new one should be made when this one expires in 2012.
Parent - - By snuffman (***) Date 01-28-2009 23:50
But in 2012 the worlds going to end. LOL
Parent - - By BryonLewis (****) Date 01-29-2009 00:48
Not if we find a lost Mayan village in the jungles of the Yucatan and help then make a new calendar.  Then the world shall be saved and we would be revered as Gods to the Mayas and heros to the rest of the world.  I better get my passport.  Nah I still have 3 years.  :-)
Parent - - By Metarinka (****) Date 01-29-2009 01:15
Here's a NASA theory of what december 21, 2012 may look like http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tZg6lJy-m9M

and here's part of the real story http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2012#2012_metaphysical_speculations

their calendar doesn't end, so much as hit a new period, the equivalent of going a millenium in our calendar.  But I still prefer to think planet x/ nibiru  will come then we'll cross through the galactic center  and a bunch of other bad things too
Parent - By Root Pass (***) Date 01-29-2009 02:56 Edited 01-29-2009 02:59
Going to the store. Anyone need anything?
Attachment: wealth.bmp (675k)
Parent - By BryonLewis (****) Date 01-28-2009 20:56
Oh, hell.  I wish I had time for this one.  I haven't gotten under anyone's skin in a few hours.  Maybe later. 
Parent - - By hogan (****) Date 01-28-2009 19:50
Js55,
I thought that was already understood and did not mention it .
Parent - By js55 (*****) Date 01-28-2009 19:54
OK.
We're cool.
Parent - By Cumminsguy71 (*****) Date 01-30-2009 00:28
Well if they site Nibiru coming at us I guess we'll have an early Christmas around here and my kids will finally get those 4 wheelers they want......even if it is only for a few hours......
Parent - - By Jssec (**) Date 01-30-2009 05:27
I have a question -- How was it 2 million Obama supporters traveled hundreds of miles in 2 days in sub freezing weather, stand outside in the cold all day to see his inauguration but 100 thousand could not travel fifty miles in 85 degree sunny weather with four days warning that Hurricane Katrina was coming?
Parent - - By Metarinka (****) Date 01-30-2009 06:17
I'm not sure, I wasn't aware that everyone affected by katrina was a obama supporter.  Also I think they put too much faith in the Government built levvies.
Parent - - By swsweld (****) Date 01-30-2009 14:30
I'm not sure how many people affected by Katrina were Obama supporters, but the VAST majority of them were Bush haters. Therefore making them Obama supporters.

The media blamed Bush more so than the governor and mayor (remember the parking lot full of buses?)and that led to Bush derangement syndrome.
On top of that you had the Michael Moore's of the world saying Bush blew the levies to target certain people.

Our nation has been programmed to think that the government is responsible to fix or prevent EVERY problem we might encounter. This administration will take that mentality to a  HNL= ho' nuthr' lebl' Mad TV.

I too think the response was not what it should have been. I don't think it was because a large percentage of the victims were black.
I do not think Bush said, "Because they were black, let them suffer." Last year in Africa, Bush was treated with great respect and admiration for the help he gave in regards to AIDS prevention and treatment.
Parent - - By BryonLewis (****) Date 01-30-2009 14:52
Yeah Katrina was bound to happen.  The gov't had been told for years that the levies were not going to hold.  Levies are nothing but insurance.  We hate to pay insurance because it is stupid.  We pay monthly for something that we might use one time.  That IMO is the problem with a lot that the gov't does.  They were reluctant to pay the insurance for New Orleans for years.  Scientists said that a big one would hit someday the levies needed fixed.  Uncle Sam said, "Ok some day it will hit.....and some day we will fix it."  To bad that it hit on Blanco and Bush's watch.  They did seem to drop the ball.  But there apparantly was no good plan in place to save New Orleans from the local level all the way up.  It was the "luck" of the draw that the 9th Ward was destroyed.  It just happened to be that that is where blacks lived.  No conspiracy there guys.  Just government reluctance to fix one of the many broken pieces of infrastructure. 

Hindsight is always 20/20.  Now they are going to fix the levies.  Now they won't let people on planes with box cutters (or their damn shoes, I had to take my flip flops off for TSA in Ft. Myers one time, WTF). 

And I don't remember Moore saying that, I think it was Spike Lee.  But who knows.  Maybe I'll google it.
Parent - - By Jssec (**) Date 01-30-2009 15:39
Remember the Federal Government sent tons of money and made attempts to repair the levies for years but local government refuse to allow and even filed suit to stop it. And lets not forget Congressman Robert Jefferson Democrat Louisiana had $90,000 of cold cash in his freezer and directed the National Guard to take him to his house to get it.

Large railroad contractor down the road from me went to Louisiana to repair the CSX rail line that runs along the coast from Fl to Texas damaged by Katrina. Estimates were it would take a year or more. They had rail cars running in a few months. Feds saw what they had done and asked them to come down to the 9th ward and clean it up. They started moving equipment in after a couple days local officials show up and ask them to leave officials wanted to control the clean up and the cash.
Parent - By BryonLewis (****) Date 01-30-2009 15:57
I think that is a great problem with politics and I am just as guilty as anyone.  I only pay attention to the federal part of the political machine.  I don't even know who's the mayor here.  I have attributed that with my upbringing.  I grew up in one of the 2 Democratic counties in Kansas.  Back then I knew about all the local politics and it was not good.  I everything about what was wrong.  It didn't matter to us who we voted for on the Federal level because Kansas has a ridiculous Republican base. 

I would like to see a more dominate position in the Federal Gov't in some instances.  Florida does well with hurricanes on the local level.  Since they take care of their business so well, I guess Uncle Sam thought Louisiana could handle it to.  Maybe that is why it made Uncle look so bad.
Parent - - By js55 (*****) Date 01-30-2009 17:28
What you overlook Bryon is that the federal government gave the city of New Orleans millions to fix the levies and it was never done. Even after a Dutch expert (those fellas know a little something about levies-and THE scientist of which you speak) told Nagin they were insane for not doing something. Sooner or later we're going to wake up and realize where the real blame of all of this should be. Or maybe we do realize but nobody has the sack to publicly say it.
And we still don't know where the money went.
Oh, and lets not forget that when the feds were beggin Blanco to let them come in to do something (illegal without the governors permission)as Katrina was barreling down on the city, Blanco said no. How can we forget the image of the flooded N.O. buses? Perhaps the same buses that our old buddy Nagin used to bus in votes from Houston to get him re-elected. And maybe it was some of that levy money that bought his votes lunch and dinner as well.
Blanco's gone. I guess she didn't have enough buses. But ol Nagin is still kickin around. Gotta hand it to him.
But this stuff just don't fit the bash Bush model.
Not to mention that the FEMA director had successfully managed 5, count em 5, major hurricanes prior to Katrina. But then Florida didn't have their equivelent of Blanco and Nagin.
Parent - - By JTMcC (***) Date 01-30-2009 18:01
I believe that even if 100% of the levy work had been complete at the time, the system was designed to theoretically deal with a direct hit from a catagory 3 storm.
Katrina was predicted to make ladfall as a full blown cat 5 (I believe it was a strong cat 4 in reality), and that would of triggered an evacuation regardless of the levy system.
The real crime was not issuing evac orders at the get go and following the plans in place to remove large numbers of people as quick as possible.

Didn't NO use federal levy funding to build their new governers mansion?

JTMcC.
Parent - By js55 (*****) Date 01-30-2009 19:07
I believe you may be right.
Parent - By DaveBoyer (*****) Date 01-31-2009 04:54
If I remember right, they used levy money to build a casino, they figured it offered a better return on investment.
Parent - By swsweld (****) Date 01-31-2009 01:08
Bryon,
You are probably right about S. Lee instead of M. Moore. I really meant M. Moore's type not him literally.

........but, since you mentioned s. lee I have to say that he is a very small person IMO.

During the DNC in Denver lee was interviewed by MSNBC I think, and they asked him about his T-shirt.
He had a picture of Obama dunking a basketball over J. McCain; with his crotch in McCains face. He proudly showed the world his shirt.

What a dirtbag!!!

McCain, though not my first choice for the republican nominee is a hero and deserves respect.

What has dirtbag done? Historically incorrect movies.

Yet this went unreported by the media. If Clint Eastwood, the opposite of s. lee, had sported a shirt w/McCains crotch in Obamas face it would have been BIG news.

Obamas buddies.
Up Topic Chit-Chat & Non-Welding Discussion / Off-Topic Bar and Grill / 4.1 b to go to ACHORN

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