So with my own shop laying idle right now, and all the talk of economic turmoil, I decided to look for a job at one of the shops around here. There aren't a whole lot of them in my part of West Virginia, and they all involve working on mining equipment. So after numerous calls and applications filled out, the only shop that is hiring is the shop I left three years ago. Back then, I had just finished a class at Lincoln Electric, got my D1.1 cert, and was anxious to actually make money at welding instead of spend it. This shop was close to home, and the guys I worked with were easy enough to get along with, but that's about all I can say for them. They did mostly rebuilds, so no print reading was required, and when we did get drawings to work off of, they were often inaccurate. Proper fit-up was viewed as an unnecessary waste of time, welding a 1/4" gap on 3/8" plate was not uncommon. When a new kid laid down about 30" of gas shielded flux-core weld with no gas turned on, did they make him grind it out? Of course not. Welding over paint and grease was typical. When they bought a bore welding setup and, due to operator error cladded the bore with the worst porosity infused weld I have ever seen, no one even batted an eyelash. Just run the line bore through there and hope the customer doesn't notice. So I was feeling desperate, and with a heavy heart I went back there for a job interview. They offered me a job at 11/hr. (which is what I made when I left) but they wanted me to be their Sigmanest programmer for their cutting table. I like welding, It is something I am good at, and I want to get better. Having never worked a desk job in my life, I accepted the job, but then turned it down the next day. I really want to be a better welder, and I just don't think this place has much to offer. So to all you old hands out there, what do you think? Is a hack shop worth working for? Can my skills improve there when quality work is not something they strive for. If I am going to be learning only from my mistakes, I can do that at my own shop. I also think that maybe having the shop experience on my resume might be worth more than self-employed experience. If I needed the money that bad, I could work at a hack shop and be okay, but I don't need it quite that bad yet. I just want to work at a place where they give a s**t about things like square and level, fitup, proper weld size. I am afraid that working for a hack shop will only give me crap skills that other employers won't want in their shop. I want to work at a place where after six months they aren't telling me how great I am, but where they are telling me how much more I need to improve...