ANY ONE OUT THERE USE AN ALLOY ANALYZER TO VERIFY FASTENERS,METALS,ETC.?THE NAVY HAS HAD PROBLEMS WITH COUNTER FEIT FASTENERS.ON ONE SHIP THE WRONG FASTENERS WERE INSTALLED ON A VALVE BONNET[STEAM VALVE].WHEN THE STEAM VALVE WAS OPENED THE BONNET BLEW OFF AND 600 PSI STEAM FILLED THE SPACE KILLING 6 SAILORS.THE FASTENERS WERE MARKED CORRECTLY BUT WERE COUNTER FEIT.ALSO DOES ANY ONE KNOW WHAT THE PRICE OF A PORTABLE ALLOY ANALYZER COSTS?I ENQUIRED FROM SUP SHIP JACKSONVILLE US NAVY AND THEY SAID THEY PAID 46,000 DOLLARS FOR ONE.NEED SOME INPUT ON THIS SUBJECT. DON KUMPUNEN QA SPECIALIST SUP SHIP PASCAGOULA US NAVY
By needle
Date 04-27-2003 08:54
Dear Don, I'm from Italy and I work for a big company which needed an alloy analyzer. Some months ago an authorized reseller came to our factory and showed us that analyzer. There were to big problems: the chemical analysis you obtain is not complete because of the carbon content (it can't be detected by the analyzer) and the price (about 35,000$) which was too expensive for our needs. The device was very light and useful on almost all the metallic and non metallic materials, but you can't detect carbon content as I told you before. The device uses a low power gamma ray emission to obtain chemical analysis of the material. I' m sorry for my english: it is not so perfect. Hope that this informations can be useful to you. Bye - Paolo
Don,
Try to get a copy of the ASNT: NDT Technician Magazine. There are usually a couple of advertisements for portable Positive Material Analyzers (PMI) units.
Like Needle says, it is likely to cost a bundle. We have hired a group to provide PMI services and the unit they have cost over 100K. The principal of operation was similar to TIG welding (shield the inspection area with argon, prior to initiating an "arc"). At that point either the gas or the light is ananlyzed for chemistry (I can't remember which). The technician provided me with a list of impressive clients who accepted the results.
The unit was kind of bulky and required high purity argon, but the sampling is fast and accurate.
Charles
Don
Just a thought here.....wouldn't it be just as important to do some lot testing of the fasteners for the mechanical properties? If heat treating isn't done correctly, the alloy analyzer probably won't show a problem. I was thinking a simple tension test performed on a random percentage of the fasteners might improve the level of confidence?
You have probably addressed this already but I thought I should mention it.
Chet Guilford
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Don,
CHG has a good idea (if you are not already doing it) about using a Skidmore or some method of testing the mechanics of your bolting procedure that verifies: #1 the bolting crew is doing it right, #2 the equipment is calibrated(torque wrenches, etc), #3 the bolts are torquing correctly without failing. All that can be done by testing the fasteners with a Skidmore-Wilhelm devise.
John Wright
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A Skidmore costs about $1500 give or take a couple dollars.
John Wright
TO J WRIGHT,
You mentioned you are a QA MANAGER.Are you near the tri-cities area of northeastern tennessee?I am a cwi/aws,paint coatings inspector,and have a variety of skills in QA[auditing,in process,etc].Also a lot of experience on machinery and piping systems[some NDT].400 hours of diesel engine training.Any info you can provide on QA jobs up that way? DON KUMPUNEN QA SPECIALIST SHIP BUILDING PASCAGOULA,MISSISSIPPI Dkumpunen@aol.com
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Donk,
Our company sold that plant we had in Abingdon last year. I haven't had to be down that way since. There were some inquiries from that area that asked for some inspection help, but I have a full time job here and declined the invitation. I had the weekends free, but most people that are looking for inspection help need it during the week. If I hear about someone still needing the services of a CWI in that area, I'll try to mention your name for you.
Good Luck,
John Wright
Hi DONK,
About 2 years ago, I decided to escape the New Orleans rat race and move to the Smoky Mountains.
I job-hunted for a QA position in every sizeable city in East TN from Greeneville to Bristol, and also around Asheville, NC. I sent out about 50 resumes, hundreds of phone calls, and spent a week physically visiting every business. Finally, I found a QA Manager position in Greeneville, TN (just south of the Tri-Cities).
While there are a lot of fabrication type industries around here, the job pickings are pretty slim. Tennesseeans are more likely to hire a friend or relative than someone from out of state. Also, when a person around here gets a "good job", they tend to stick with it until past retirement age.
I'm not saying a job can't be had; it just takes a lot of effort.
I found the local Chamber of Commerce's very helpful, as they will send you a listing/description of all of the local businesses.
I haven't heard of any openings around, but I'll let you know if I do.
I encourage you to pursue the effort though because this area is fantastic! Beautiful countryside, great/friendly people, lots to do and just an over-all sense of well-being. In my case, it's the exact opposite of New Orleans, which is just what I was looking for.
Good Luck!
Tim
Texas Instuments sells a PMI tester, or at least used to anyway. You can also have companies like Cooperheat MQS come in and do it for you if you don't want to buy the equipment. If you are only testing fasteners though, it would be easier to find a lab with a spectrograph and take the material to the lab instead of the other way around.
Here in third world, underdeveloped countries, when we need to run the chemical analysis of a suspect material, we send it to a reputable chemical lab. A lot of analysis can be made before 46 kilobucks are spent, to say nothing of the fact that a chemical lab can detect all of the materials you want, whereas, as Needle points out, a portable kit can not.
Also, as technically competent customers know that third world, underdeveloped manufacturers can counterfeit (or should I say missmake?) the bolts and nuts, they (the customers) have the bolts inspected by a reputable inspection firm. Of course, I don't need to say that inspection is carried out in a statistical manner, i.e., on a small quantity which is representative of the whole number.
Very expensive? More expensive is the life of 6 sailors, to say nothing of the indemnity the US Navy will have to pay to their families.
Giovanni S. Crisi
Sao Paulo - Brazil
I agree with Giovanni. We had a problem with counterfeit bolts several years ago. We required all bolts to come in sealed containers from the manufacturer with mill certs then took random samples from heach keg and had them tested at a qualified tesing lab.
Several years ago I worked in a Met lab testing bolts. There is alot more to it than just looking at a chemistry. We would cross section them: look at microstructure; check hardness;Basically check everything per SAE specifications or whatever was called out on the print. These guys are right when guide you to having your testing done by a accredited lab.
One question: While I was working at the above mentioned lab I can remember something about a nation fasteners act or something like that congress was trying to pass. Working in a different field now so I havent heard much more about it. Can anybody fill me in as to what happened with that.
thanks
kam