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Up Topic American Welding Society Services / Certifications / Poor terminology
- - By bamaCWI (**) Date 05-01-2009 15:02
The following is a direct quote from an AWS specification regarding weld procedure qualification. Please read and give your interpretation of "WELD SETTINGS", "MANUAL WELDS", and your interpretation of the entire sentence.

Quote: "Qualification of weld settings for manual welds is not required unless specified by the Engineering Authority"

My interpretation:   "WELD SETTINGS"      Amps, Volts, Travel Speed, (which determines heat input)
                           "MANUAL WELDS"       Not automated, robotic, orbital, etc..   GTAW, SMAW
                            Amperage, voltage, and travel speed are not essential variables for manual weld procedure qualification unless specified.
Is it just me or does this seem to contradict the WPS qualification efforts?
Parent - - By Lawrence (*****) Date 05-01-2009 16:03
I have seen similar (maybe it's the same) language applied to things like GTAW.

D17 for an example states that all procedures must be qualified by testing and that all production must have a WPS... 

But the fact of the matter is that machine settings for manual GTAW would be pretty hard to "qualify"....  Lets say the WPS call for 70-90 amps...  Let's also say the machine is set to 90A max...Well if we have a foot pedal control, the effective range will likely be between about 5-90A...(in theory outside of the WPS range)

Same with travel speed....  Repairs must also have WPS's... But travel speed on repairs will vary greatly.

Plus... Sometimes the codes need a little editing for clairity... You may be perfectly right.
Parent - - By bamaCWI (**) Date 05-01-2009 16:53
D17.1 is exactly where this came from. Our in house procedure are based upon D17.1 and we want to clarify and at the same time simplify the verbage. We deal with 90% GTAW with foot pedal, as you stated, it's pretty hard stay within a 10% to 25% range. My hats off to the guys on this committee, however I wish they would change or clarify the terms "WELD SETTINGS", that is a loose cannon for the some people.
Parent - By 803056 (*****) Date 05-03-2009 14:53
I don't sit on the committee mentioned, but I have opinions on some of the subject touched upon in this thread. 

AWS has published A3.0 for standard terms and definitions. It is supposed to be the "Industry Standard" for terminology used by industry. Yet there are a number of AWS standards that have failed to use standard terms and definitions by ignoring A3.0 or choosing to "rewrite" the terms and definitions in their own "glossary". For the most part, it has done little to clarify the situation and tends to muddy the waters.

As for qualifying welding processes; for the most part the intent of the qualification process is to verify the process is controlled and it produces the desired results. Welding parameters such as voltage, amperage, travel speed, etc. must be controlled within limits to produce consistent results. The WPS is only as good as the thought that goes into them, i.e., they can be so general in nature they serve little purpose or they can be so restrictive they are impossible to use.

The author has to understand the process and the application in order to write a WPS that is useful to the welder and produce the desired mechanical and metallurgical results. It should provide some latitude to the welder to accommodate differences in fit-up, position, material thickness, etc. but it should also ensure consistent results.  I've seen a WPS written with amperage ranges of 0 to 300 amps because a foot pedal was employed. The same procedure listed 0 to 80 volts for GTAW. When I asked the author why he had listed the ranges as he did, his reply was because they were the minimum/maximums of the machine. I wouldn't categorize that as a useful WPS nor would I consider the author talented when it came to writing WPSs.

I agree with the philosophy that the ranges listed on the WPS should be based ranges used to qualify the procedure with some percentage of variation permitted. The variation of ranges listed in Table 4.5 of AWS D1.1 seem to be reasonable for the processes listed. Clearly, the voltage and amperage of the initiation and extinguishing the arc are not relevant in establishing the welding parameters. In any event, if consistency is one of the goals of the WPS, there should be reasonable ranges listed for arc voltage, welding amperage, travel speed, wire feed speed (if applicable), etc.

As for using the foot pedal with GTAW, most of my clients set their machines up so that a fully depressed foot pedal produces the desired amperage for the weld being deposited. Variations of the foot pedal are used for arc initiation and cratering out. The variation in amperage between welders making the same welds is minimal and typical well within +/-10%. By controlling the amperage, travel speed is also fairly consistent from one welder to the next.

Best regards - Al
Parent - - By G.S.Crisi (****) Date 05-04-2009 22:42
I'm sorry to say that the terminology I see on today's American technical documents and articles is far behind (i.e., worse) than the terminology I used to read on those documents 30 - 40 years ago. What happened to the technical writers?
Giovanni S. Crisi
Sao Paulo - Brazil
Parent - By bamaCWI (**) Date 05-04-2009 23:19
Well said Al and G.S. It seems we are "dumbing up" our codes and specifications instead of "training up" our workforce.
Parent - By ajtcsx Date 05-29-2009 13:57
The statement is taken from AWS D17.1, para 4.4.2. The explanation is given in the commentary section in the back of the specification in C4.4 on page 76.
Up Topic American Welding Society Services / Certifications / Poor terminology

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