For all you AR 15 guys out there...need some info

Date 03-30-2009 01:37 Edited 03-30-2009 01:43

From a legal standpoint, Your sheriff buddy may be able to get away with it, but CBI will have a different take on the issue. Your better off buying a cali complaint rifle from the beginning. My opinion of the Cali law is that it's unconstitutional. I believe the supreme court sided with that opinion recently as well. At this time there are a number of legal challenges being mounted to that effect as well. Be careful with the term "assault weapon" while your at it. That is a media driven term which they picked up from military jargon. By definition an assault weapon is any item used to assault something or someone. I could "assault" you with a stick, and it would be an assault weapon.

If your hell bent on building your own, then you need to be prepared to spend some ducks to do it right. You also need to get yourself educated.
First bit of education is to research their current legal standing in Cali. I recall some recent changes in cali affecting them.

Parts: There are a pile of mil surplus parts floating around. However; a more correct term is military reject parts or seconds. If the price is to good to be true, it probably is.

http://www.ar15pro.com/content.aspx?ckey=AR15%20Parts%20Diagram%20Main%20Page
will give you a good starting point.

Having worked on a number of them and owning a few, the most common problems I've seen are rifles built from junk parts, by people who failed to educate themselves before buying. They would buy an m16 carrier and not know the difference, and end up eating it to make the rifle legal, or they would get a barrel with phosphates in it, or an upper not aligned right, or a barrel not indexed properly, or any number of other pitfalls involved in this. I've made a pile of money on the side fixing these kind of problems. (FN FAL, AK's, and SKS's are the only other rifles that equal an ar 15 in the potential to get you in trouble unwittingly in my opinion)

The best advice I can give you is to buy the rifle from a reputable manufacture already legal for your local but if your like me, you'll be hell bent until you've done it yourself. There is reams of info on the net, so again, educate yourself before you partake of this venture.

Regards,
Gerald

By norcalwelder (**)

Date 03-30-2009 02:31

he said it was california legal, and since hes been telling me what I can't do for a long time, I don't think he'd shine me on. I was under the impression that it would be cheaper to build it myself...is that true? I heard like 800-900 bucks.

By jrod

Date 03-30-2009 03:32

Check out model1sales.com they have uppers very reasonable. I have two and really like them.

By norcalwelder (**)

Date 03-31-2009 15:10

hows the accuracy on those?

By jrod

Date 04-03-2009 21:18

they are pretty good

By shorthood2006 (****)

Date 04-05-2009 20:19

they were at the gun show in tulsa...tons of ar parts

By uphill

Date 03-30-2009 11:33

You may want to check out http://www.rguns.net/ or the DPMS website. There are lots of manufacturers and places to buy. Have fun. $900 should get you a good rifle with no frills.

By CWI555

Date 03-30-2009 13:12

I wasn't implying he'd shine you on, I was stating he may not know the difference. It's the recent changes that are in question.
However; if you can get it done, 800-900 should buy the whole rifle, but that is something that needs to be judged on your end.
Prices of firearms vary greatly depending on what part of the country your in. In this neck of the woods I can get a service rifle built for 650
and the skys the limit on target match depending on what you put into it.

The last one I built was 2500 which is cheap by target /match standards.

By JTMcC

Date 03-30-2009 15:03

It's the worst time in history to be buying a black gun.
Prices have gone way up since the election, if you can find what you want.
Last week DPMS told my brother they wouldn't take any new orders for another 18 months, and said they had 145,000 complete rifles backordered. He had 85 AR's in stock the day of the election and can't get replacement rifles, uppers or lowers from amybody in the country right now.
The guys that have stock, have raised their prices dramatically.

JTMcC.

By norcalwelder (**)

Date 03-30-2009 15:29

This is what I was looking at...if my buddy bought the lower, what else would I need other then these parts?
A2 buttstock, complete with buffer & spring; Black    1 $55.00   $55.00
Standard A2 pistol grip; Black    1 $6.00   $6.00
Jard Single Stage Trigger; 2#    1 $125.00   $125.00
20'' AR15 Standard Upper Half, 5.56 NATO,
chrome lined chamber & bore; 1-9 twist,
A2 flashider; A3 upper; Front sight base
w/std front sight; A2 handguard, black;
Bolt carrier group & std charging handle, 1 $450.00   $450.00

http://www.model1sales.com/item-detail.cfm?ID=USE200CL&storeid=1&image=ustd20.gif
That was the "upper half" that I was looking at. I didn't see anything that said I needed to have a FFL to ship to cali.
http://www.model1sales.com/item-detail.cfm?ID=KSE200&storeid=1&image=s20prek.gif
What about that? would that be better?

Just feel free to tell me whatever I need to know please lol. :D

By JMCInc

Date 03-31-2009 15:33

If you haven't called model 1 yet hurry up and wait.... it'll be 20-24 weeks to delivery.

By norcalwelder (**)

Date 03-31-2009 18:49

jeez 20 weeks? well I was planning on waiting till summer to get the upper, but if it takes that long, I might as well order it now so it gets here then lol. whats the accuracy going to be with a 20" chrome lined barrel?

By Kix

Date 03-31-2009 19:10

Should be around 1/2" @ 100yrd. Mine was supposed to be that to, but it sure is tuff to shoot that without locking the rifle down. lol

By shorthood2006 (****)

Date 04-05-2009 20:21

they had over 500 uppers at the gun show.

By shorthood2006 (****)

Date 04-12-2009 21:20

im going to the gun show in ft worth in may....i could pick your orders up and send them..
that is so screwed up....
1st. they have 500 orders for uppers that were placed before the end of the year.
2nd. they are selling thousands at the gun shows at a first come..first serve.

The guy that is setting at home waiting on his order is getting run around by the guy at the gun show.
i cancelled my order and picked it up at the tulsa gun show.

By CWI555

Date 04-13-2009 01:11

This would appear to be the way of business in todays environment in regards to gun parts. I've grown very very sick of AR's and the gouging for both parts and ammo.
I would like to offer up a viable alternative;

I've just recently completed a rifle build (Friday) that I am fairly impressed with. Key parts are as follows:
http://www.brownells.com/aspx/NS/store/productdetail.aspx?p=21377&st=100-002-140&s=46641
Mini 14 adjustable gas block
http://www.shilen.com/pricesRifleBarrels.html
Shilen match grade stainless barrel
http://shopruger.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/ProductDisplay?catalogId=10051&storeId=10051&categoryId=19655&productId=62764&langId=-1&parent_category_rn=19655&lastCatId=19655
ATI tactical stock as shown
http://www.brownells.com/aspx/NS/store/productdetail.aspx?p=167&st=049-014-001&s=858
accuracy systems adjustable trigger

Standard steel bed on the action similar to the M1A set up.

Accuracy is sub MOA out of match loads, and for my loads in particular, 1/2 MOA on a rest. I've built AR's with equivelent accuracy or better, but the difference is that the brass is in better shape afterwards, and again the adjustable gas allows for variances in loads that the standard AR gas system does not. Instead of kicking the hell out of the brass and action, it's went from throwing them out to 20 feet to dropping them 3 feet away.

As for the ammo

The days of 30 to 40 cents a round are gone. Right now the going rate seems to be around .75 a round. I am all for going to the range and blasting a case at a time, but unless you've got 200 cases or more put back, and a ton of money in the bank, I think every one should start considering making every shot count rather than blasting reams of ammo at the range.
Keeping your brass in good condition is a very important step if you reload. I've gotten ride of my HK93 and AK 84s for that reason. If your firearm chews the brass, you should consider doing the same.

(forget .308 anything worth shooting is upwards of 1 dollar a round now, with discount ??? ammo at .75 a round)

Regards,
Gerald

By norcalwelder (**)

Date 04-13-2009 14:51

Alrighty started buying parts...but that does kinda look cool.

By JTMcC

Date 04-13-2009 21:05

CW1555 I agree that for open minded individuals ; ) there are a lot of alternatives available. The Rugers need work to be accurate with a warm barell but that's easily solved, magazine prices used to be a minus but with current AR pricing that's not so much an issue. Plus they look almost as cool as a Garand.
Other fun options are a Garand (or a shortened Garand if that makes you happy), M1A's, including the shorter versions are neat, but cost more. A lot of people like the 308 HK's, or the 5.56 HK's but they are expensive too today but dead reliable. I like FAL's, thousands of versions are out there and don't forget the Mossburg 500/590 or the Remington 1100/1187/870's. Even old Enfield bolt guns (dirt cheap) are relatively fast, hold historic value, and are fun to shoot.
I've left out about a hundred fun firearms that will serve you well in a self defense type situation. The AR's are of course very popular these days but a lot of things are available.
Bottom line is just get something and learn to use it well, it will be fun and (hopefully never have to) save you or your family. Plus if you live in the sticks like me you have everything from snakes to packs of feral dogs you have to deal with from time to time.

JTMcC.

By CWI555

Date 04-14-2009 00:44

As for living in the sticks, my nearest neighbors only comment to my shooting off the back porch is if they can join me.
I have to say the three firearms I favor the most are the Ruger Mark II target, Glock 21, and Ruger 10/22.
I don't know why 22's get a bad rap, especially with some of the ammo these days punching out 1400 feet per second.
I've read a report that aguila 22 super max is punching 1740 fps and 200 ft lb's muzzle. I loaded up on this when it first hit the street. Out my mark II's they are hitting between 1300 and 1500 fps depending on which one.
When it's all said and done, the people who've ignored the 22 will regret doing so. A critter either 2 or 4 legged is just as dead from a well placed shot from a 22 as with a 44 mag and that has been made especially true with the latest hyper velocity 22 that's out.

Then there is the 60 grain subsonic variety. The navy seals currently utilize a silenced ruger mark II in the list of weapons.
Some of the 22 20 grain subsonic loads are quieter than a pellet gun. Just the thing called for when that cat won't stay of the garbage, or you don't want to alert the entire forest to your presence when taking a squirrel out for a meal.

For the shotguns I like the Winchester 1300 series. I also enjoy this one http://www.iacshotguns.com/87w.html which I find not many people are aware of. I wished I could get an american made version, but this one isn't bad.

Anyway, as you stated, for open minded people there are a lot of alternatives out there. If you don't like whats out there simply make it yourself. My next project is converting a Mark II ruger to 5mm remington mag. Thats turning out to be a challenge, but when it's done I think it will be worth it.

Regards,
Gerald

By raftergwelding (*****)

Date 05-13-2009 12:00

Gerald how hard is it to ship guns with in the U.S. i found an ar 15 with shoulder strap and bayonet and some clips for 200 i was told it was made in china prolly junk but just looking for something to play with i have my mini 14 and 30.06 for long range stuff

By CWI555

Date 05-13-2009 13:04

Well for shipping guns within the states, you find and ffl dealer. The sender either has to be an ffl or go through one, and you will have to get it from the same. Not really hard to do, but they do typically tack on some cost.

Never heard of an ar15 from china?? Send me a pic if you have one.

By raftergwelding (*****)

Date 05-13-2009 23:36

ok thanks gerald no i dont have a pic still trying to figure out how to get it to me from dallas area to me in jourdanton

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By norcalwelder (**)

Date 04-13-2009 03:57

yeah I got my receiver...I'm gonna head out to Georgia in a week, so I'm gonna see if I can't find something in stock. Sounds like I need to ditch the online stuff and hit some shows lol

By RioCampo (***)

Date 04-02-2009 03:05

Sling and sling mounts.
Get a leupold carry handle adapter for scope or holographic sight. carry handle mount allows you to use factory sights and still have a scope.
Magazines, get 20 rounders work better if you have a bipod, 30 rounders are to long, generally hit table before bipod.

By norcalwelder (**)

Date 04-02-2009 03:50

I've been looking at a site called tacticalcity.com. they are saying about 10 or more weeks. another site I saw is delcon.com or something like that. their prices are about the same, only they ship within 12-16 weeks. and I called model 1 and they said 7 MONTHS before they'd ship it. Rio, i'm going to get a A3 flat top, so no carry handle. I'm probably gonna be popping off ground squirrels around here, and its pretty much all under 100 yards. should I go for a good rear iron sight? (it doesn't come with one) or a scope? One other thing about the mags...I'm pretty sure I can't have 30 rd mags in cali can I?

By RioCampo (***)

Date 04-03-2009 03:08

I was reading the a2 part and went right over the a3 upper. You can get a carry handle for it, but the make a mount that has a short set of peep sights that will carry a scope also. Bushnell makes a holographic sight that incorporates the iron sights but the are awfully short.
Fammous maker also makes an inexpensive scope that is a 4 * 26 I believe, only about 40 bucks and works well.
Remember your are not going to take this gun to a 600 yard club match. Start out where you can work your way up on sights and scopes, because I guarantee you will change them eventually.
I am not sure on you mag regs for california, Promag makes an awesome polymer magazine, it comes with a clip on dust cover. C products makes a decent one, I have a bunch of those and never had any trouble, some will probably say otherwise though. Obviously bushmaster and dpms mags are good quality. If the price on a mag seems too good to be true, stay away from it. You can purchase a good magazine for 12-20 bucks.
What about you barrel twist? what have you selected? I may have missed it. 1-9" or 1-8" will stabilize 52-75 grain bullets well. Most plinking bullets are easily found in 55 gr and work well.
Do you reload? If so that is a whole other story.

By norcalwelder (**)

Date 04-03-2009 04:10

I saw a Leapers carry handle with a peep sight for like 40 bucks...worth it or not? I have a burris 3-9x42 that I found in my dresser, so I might put that on there. I've been reading about the mags, and if I can "dig out" some mags made before the ban, I can use them...either that or I use 10 rders. I'm going to use a 1/9 barrel, and yes, I'll will probably handload alot just cause my bro left me a bunch of brass and stuff.

By uphill

Date 03-31-2009 16:22

I was just at a big gun show at the Minnesota fairgrounds last week, there were only 8 to 10 uppers from $600 and up to $1100. I went home with some 308 brass but it took two hours to walk the main floor, had to be 30,000 buyers. Prices were a lot higher from the private sellers.

By shorthood2006 (****)

Date 04-05-2009 20:08

i went to the Tulsa gun show this weekend...largest in the u.s. 4000 tables..i bought an ar 15.,,,bushmaster.

By uphill

Date 04-05-2009 20:46

How high were reloading supply prices? Any brass for sale down there? Not much in Minnesota, cant buy any primers anywhere. Federal cartridge even having problems getting ones they had ordered last fall.

By michaelb (**)

Date 04-06-2009 01:08

anything that has to do with .223 anywhere is hard to find unless u have lots of cash. i own 3 ar's but got them befoe you guys got your wonderful president. if anyone has 223 brass i would be interested in it. look at wolf ammo 3 years ago and look at its price now.

By michaelb (**)

Date 04-06-2009 01:11 Edited 04-06-2009 02:42

i do have some magpul 30 rd black windowless p mags if interested for sale 22$ + shipping cap clips to bottom. new and old version. looking for a eotech if anyone has any of them prefer a 551 or 553

By shorthood2006 (****)

Date 04-06-2009 02:38

I bought 200 rounds for 100 bucks of generic 223. i just found 500 rounds of ammo for $150 here in town. all loads are 55 grain.

By michaelb (**)

Date 04-06-2009 02:41

darrin thats high for generic ammo, i will let go of a 1000 rds for 310$ its wolf 55 grain the 500 rds is a decent deal. what brand?

By shorthood2006 (****)

Date 04-06-2009 02:48

michael,
it was wall to wall people. everyone was huntin .223 ammo. after 8 hrs at the gun show...that was the cheapest i could find.

By shorthood2006 (****)

Date 04-06-2009 02:49

if anyone can find any .223 at a "cheap" price....i will take it.

By shorthood2006 (****)

Date 04-06-2009 02:51

i hunted on over 30 web pages for ammo today...the cheapest was around $.50 per rd. the cheap ammo is all sold out. it will get higher.

By uphill

Date 04-10-2009 13:32

Just got this email it says its in stock if interested

http://www.sportsmansguide.com/net/cb/prvi-partizan-62-gr-223-556x45-mm-fmjbt-ammunition-20-rds.aspx?a=529617&pn=1

500 rounds $299 or 1000 rounds for $589 fmj 223

By weldervaughn (**)

Date 04-12-2009 22:33

1000 rounds for 589,,,, hmmm looks like I been selling mine to cheap. O well price just went up.

By uphill

Date 04-13-2009 10:12

Its funny now the 30-06 rounds are $125.00 for 250 fmj in ammo boxes. Maybe I should be shooting a belt feed. Lots more bang for $11 more a 1000

By CWI555

Date 04-13-2009 01:18

thats cheap by todays standard, but I've had problems with thin walls out of that brass. If your just shooting and dropping it's a good deal, if your reloading it's not such a good deal.

By shorthood2006 (****)

Date 04-06-2009 02:53

is the wolf brand steel or brass casings(reloadable or not).
I will take it...what is the frt going to cost? zipcode is 73703(enid oklahoma)

By michaelb (**)

Date 04-07-2009 02:38

the wolf brand is not reloadable due to it is burden primed. watch out shooting the older wolf that has the laquer coat around it. dont shoot 25 rounds then leave one in the pipe you will break your extractor once the laquer has cooled in the chamber and then you shoot it. give me a call sometime i will get you a shipping quote. also clean your ar more often when shooting wolf or cheaper ammo due to the dirty powder

By CWI555

Date 04-13-2009 01:16

I would rather throw the gun at someone than shoot that crap through it. At least I have a reasonable chance of retrieving the firearm in working order.
I haven't shot any of their newer stuff, but after a couple of broken extractors and other problems, I don't think I'll be giving that brand another chance to screw me again.

By shorthood2006 (****)