Jessi and AWS Say We Need 200,000 New Welders by 2010

Date 05-14-2009 22:54

Have worked in the welding trade for over 12 years across the country. Certified in smaw 2 7/8 inch and greater pipe and gtaw stainless steel pipe and plate 1 inch and greater. Haven't work my truck in months and the company i went single hand with layoff with no word on up coming work. Called and emailed resumes to alot of contractors in every contruction industrie for the past 3 months with no word. So if the aws says we need 200,000 new welder by 2010, I ask "where I travel there."

By vantage500man (**)

Date 05-14-2009 23:04

Ya, 200.000 wannabe's welders willing to work for 8 to 10 an hour as a certified welder with plenty of company's willing to pick them up only to find out they can't weld for crap..... just makes me so mad.... I too can't buy a job, over qualified, not enough experience, your in Mi why are you applying here, I've heard it all it sucks!

By rigwelder8201 (*)

Date 05-15-2009 02:37

We must be calling at the same places.

By Johnyutah (**)

Date 05-15-2009 02:44

The big company men will love this more dumb ***** that think they know it all right out of the trade school and work for crumbs. I to have heard all the lines you need to drop your rates to keep with the times, you guys just think your worth more than you are, I can get a guy to do that for 40 bucks an hour, it's not our fault you think you need to drive that new truck. This is the way it will be for the next while the hacks and there trailers will take it all at 30 to 40 per hour no minimum they will think there big time until they get on a real job with a pm that has seen it all and they blow up there air cooled or and he runs there sorry a** off. I have been on my own for 13 years now and it is the most insulting things I can think of to tell a qualified guy that you can't or won't pay his rate because he is over qualified. It won't even dawn on them that the guy with all the tools all the know how will do the job in less than half the time saving them money and god forbid something goes wrong at least the guy would have insurance. If your going to go broke you might just as well hang out with your family or friends and have some fun because you will go just as broke working for cut rates you just will have to work your a** off to do it. And if you are dragging around a cheap air cooled on a trailer or rig and think your little machine is just as good I for one don't really want another argument about this no offense to you or your machine I have had them and I hate them and won't argue with you about it those machines are for small install projects or hobby work or backup. Here we go again Johnyutah is the target for the cut throats but my trucks work for 65 per hour with no less than a 2 hour minimum and I'm still working so let them cut our throats and we can wait till there broke buy there stuff and get back to it.

By rigwelder8201 (*)

Date 05-15-2009 03:56

When i was putting a truck together 2 years ago the guys i worked single hand with said just buy a air cooled machine. I told them I hated using them here why in hell would i put one on for a rig truck. If you buy junk, u got junk and you don't last long doing jobs with it. Even if your cut throats.

By Yung Buck (*)

Date 05-15-2009 04:36

But you know, even for us "new guys" fresh out of trade school that know we (more specifically I) know I don't know jack squat. But, I am having a hell of a time getting my foot in the door to even learn. I constantly get told I don't have the experience nor the qualifications and nobody is in need of a helper for me to learn.

So, I think the 200k job thing is a bunch of bs. I've read that in many places. But, the economy says otherwise.

Just my .02. Not trying to step on any toes. I'm still green. No real world experience, but am doing my best to find a job to get the experience I need.

Anyway, best of luck to you all.

By chris2698 (****)

Date 05-17-2009 23:51

Yung Buck I agree with you when I got outta school they were like not enough experience but they wanted to pay like 10 an hour it just didn't make sense. keep knocking on doors and when you get in you may be working for pennys but learn what you can and move on thats what I had to do to work my way up and I'm still working my way up

By BOILERMAKER154 Date 05-15-2009 18:43

I do NOT want to offend you but here is my way to look at it you charge $65 hr and complain about the cut rates, it cost $55 per hour for me to walk on job,and I have to bring 3 things with me #1 a work knife.#2 a six foot or longer tape measure.#3 the ability-to do 100%x ray on every weld I do.same story you have I have after the non union bring your rig guys cant get the job done right who do they call, the union boilermaker,so for $15 hr more you bring all you tools ins truck grinders etc no workman comp and cut our throats.sad fact is everyone is entitled to make a living the guy doing the work will get taken advantaged of. and those power plants and oil co.'s will get richer and richer. and we keep screwing each other,just to feed or kids and pay some bills. none of us get paid what we should and some of us will die just trying to make a living MARK

By pipewelder_1999 (****)

Date 05-15-2009 19:14

"...will get richer and richer. "

Below are some salaries paid off the backs of some of the finest craftworkers I have met. These guys probably don't step in a boiler much. This is from 05/06 I believe.

Alexander Macdonald   $ 380,379
Newton Jones   $ 353,513
Richard Albright $ 293,141
Lawrence Mcmanamon   $ 281,481
George Rogers   $ 264,596
Jerry Willburn   $ 259,968
James Hickenbotham   $ 257,331
Joseph Stinger   $ 255,333
Sean Murphy $ 253,984
William Creeden   $ 243,468

The organization has the following

Total Assets: $ 61,464,132
Members: 65,691
Employees: 122
Employees earning over $75,000: 60

Union or Non Union someone is making money off your work. We all make MUCH more than a LIVING.

The information above is public information on the internet and may not reflect what is real. But what is ?

By mechan

Date 05-15-2009 19:28

From your post I am not really sure what you are getting at, would you like the international president, treasurer, etc etc to revert back to when they WERE tradesmen and not handle the international's business? I am not sure as I really see the point of your post. You are not calling out on the misuse of funds or for that matter even stating the organization you are complaining about (a quick "these guys probably don't step in a boiler much" doesn't denote what trade you are referring to, I've been inside a boiler many times as a union fitter.) From a quick read of the bio's on most of the boilermakers you have listed, the one's I read were all tradesman. They aren't 23 year old guys with MBA's that never worked in the trades they are ELECTED officials. These men have been elected to NOT apply their trade, but to promote and serve the best interest of their trade fiscally, politically and socially.

By pipewelder_1999 (****)

Date 05-15-2009 19:52

No my point is that many organizations make money off the work others do. They have skills in marketing, management, labor relations etc. I imagine all of those guys WERE tradesman. But many people seem to have a resentment to large companies (Oil Gas Power making money). I was just bringing up the FACT that even in unions, the worker is supporting someone who is not working. There is nothing wrong with that .

Whether the labor is union or non union, in the US or other countires, you can be sure that most are trying to get all they can at the cost of someone else making it. It may be a guy just starting out with his air cooled hobart welder and a central tool air compressor. Or it may be a CEO or an elected union official.

I helped pay some of those guys salaries though only a VERY small portion, I still did.

Some labor unions operate on a small budget because of few members . Yet the still operate.
Prisco Monico   $ 183
Sherrin Delaney    $ 73
Winfred Dailey $ 0
Patrici Labonte   $ 0
John Heintz $ 0
Ronald Usher    $ 0

The above figures come from http://www.unionfacts.com/unions/ and seem to be backed by other information but it may all be propoganda.

I am not for or aginst unions. I am for a man working for an honest days pay and the man he works for making some money from that.

By mechan

Date 05-15-2009 20:03

"I was just bringing up the FACT that even in unions, the worker is supporting someone who is not working." They are working ... since when do Business Agents, Presidents, etc. not work? Is your only definition of working doing so with your hands? Because I am pretty sure the role that those elected officials play are crucial and while there is abuse in those positions by some people, (just like anywhere else), to do the job and do it well is A LOT of work. How do you propose a Business Agent both work in his or her trade and at the same time carry out the duty of the elected position he or she is in? I am going to bet it would be pretty hard and damn near impossible, we aren't speaking about small in house union's where the negations are dealing with one company or for example the government i.e. ACT (Association of Civilian Technicians). On a national level even those small in house unions have to have elected and full time officials even if they don't on the local level. If people were not making money off the work of others how do you propose that business operate, should we become a socialist nation?

By mechan

Date 05-15-2009 20:05

And the website you are citing the main page says "Don't be fooled by the union's lies", so that sounds REALLY impartial. Give me a frigging break.

By pipewelder_1999 (****)

Date 05-15-2009 20:12

I never said they were IMPARTIAL did I ? Give ME a break!

Does the union Lie ? Do people? Are unions Corrupt? Do Union officials coerce people? Do Non Union Leaders coerce people.

I don't know.

Nothing in the media is "impartial".

By pipewelder_1999 (****)

Date 05-15-2009 20:26

Maybe I mistakenly posted this. The original quote was in my 1st post from the previous poster.

"...will get richer and richer"

There is nothing wrong with getting richer and richer. I just wanted to point out that unions are getting richer and richer. Maybe 250k a year doesnt seem like much to you but that seems like a pretty good living. I am proud for the union leaders that work for their people with more concern for the organization than theirselves. I am proud for the owners oof construction companies that provide work, union and non union.

I am by no means trained in politics or history etc. But I feel a man should be able to work by whatever means he see's fit by his own standards. He should not be forced to charge MORE or less by the government, unions or anyone else. If I show up on the jobsite with my chinese welder, 1976 pickup truck and 30 years of experience, does it matter ?

By pipewelder_1999 (****)

Date 05-15-2009 20:09

I'm sorry. I used the term "working" in reference to labor. I understand that all of those people work hard at what they do and paid plenty of dues to get where they are.

I am not saying its wrong to make money off of others work. Thats what companies do. Labor unions do the same thing. I'm saying its NOT any different for Kroger to make money off the cashier than it is for the association of grocery store workers president to do it.

By BOILERMAKER154 Date 05-17-2009 17:39

when compared to the ceo's of lets say general dynamics or B&W or Bechtel or any company that has 67,000 workers instead of members I think they are not over payed. if they worked for any of the above they would make more. working for the union is like a Government job you don't get rich and you could have made more i private sectors, there are a lot of perks,but they are there to represent the workers,are they perfect NO .no one is. if you can negotiate better wages and benefit's on your own that is great. not everyone needs to be in a union. if I could do Better on my own I would be a fool not to. but I believe collectively bargaining we (the member's or workers what ever we call ourselves) are much stronger and i do not mind paying a share of my wages doing so. when I joined it was purely greed I wanted that $33hr job. but over time you learn that collectively we can bargain a lot better, together we can teach the newcomers and lookout for the old-timers. none of us is going to get rich, we just want to wet our beaks

By pipewelder_1999 (****)

Date 05-18-2009 02:42

I see what you are saying. I am thankful they did what they did. Its just that its also possible that CEO's of large companies ALSO have the worker in mind. Those CEO's provide excellent work for very MANY employees.

Some employees are treated quite well even if they aren't organized. And some employees are treated unfairly even if they are organized.

By Cumminsguy71 (*****)

Date 05-15-2009 13:27

Well, as a mechanic we went through that stage of bs as well. Now that the market for cars has toppled maybe that line of crap has gone away.

We've seen a pretty good surge at school in people signing up for welding. Some actually show up every night and actually work at it. Others, well, they come and go as they please then usually get dropped at the end of the trimester.

Yes, have run across youngsters fresh out of tech school as a mechanic that knew everything and would not listen. Just ignored them until they finally came over and humbled asked for you opinion when they started loosing their shirt on the warranty job at GM's cut throat flat rate labor rates. I on the other hand keep the same attitude that I had coming out of mechanic school, listen to the old timers, learn everything I can from them then once I've picked his brain for all he knows find another old timer and start over. I've learned a ton from listening to old school mechanics and welders and would just be ignorant to think I knew more.....but now I'm an old hand mechanic so pretty hard now, but still don't know it all.

Finally, what good would it be not to reply to Johnyutah. I have an air cooled.......and I agree, it's ok for the little crap I've been doing but understand fully that it will not hold up when I start running pipe and all day jobs. Unfortunately at the time it was all I could afford and have a goal set to step up as soon as I pack away $3-4k for a Used SA, unless I can find a bargain. I have an air cooled but I still fork out a ton of cash for insurance and papers, workers comp, air cooled does not always mean hack. Again, I agree with you though, have had my throat cut several times and told, "wow, you are more professional looking than the other guys who came out here. You actually have a welding truck, the other guys showed up in beat up cars". He said he'd go with me(your professional). My price was about $100 more, proof of insurance(which he wanted) and never heard back from him, obviously my professionalism meant diddly.

I think you and I have had this conversation before though!

By Johnyutah (**)

Date 05-15-2009 14:45

I new Shawn would chime in on this however your as I said before not a hack, just starting out and being a cut throat or hack are two different things. I once bought into the whole air cooled thing I started with a SA and as we grew and needed more machines mostly just to run out on repairs so we listened to a sales men and never again after that I would rather find ac someplace and use a dc machine. Mind you that was 11 or more years ago now we run 300d machines and it's not an issue but I at the time like others I thought cheap was the answer it's not trust me down time reflects directly on your professional image. And another thing I have learned about weathering these storms keep your rate up keep your head up only drop rates for good loyal clients tell them your slow ask if you can work out a deal to pay the bills but make sure they know it's temporary. Also remember a lot of us have many skills when the hacks hit us hard we can fall back to our past trade or other work to survive in bad economic times you need to be flexible but not a sell out. All these guy's that don't play buy the rules always go away in the end or learn that they need to change there ways but don't give them an inch if they cut your throat and you see them tell them what you think of them we all have family to feed as well. I have had two jobs recently that the contractor has called me and told me that I got under bid and said if I would drop my price the work was mine I simply said I know how to bid and I don't need practice let the other guy do it if the hack pulls it off good for him if he screws up guess who they call.

By Cumminsguy71 (*****)

Date 05-15-2009 15:24

If I manage to get out on the pipeline and end up in your area I'll have to stop in and buy you a beer.

By Lawrence (*****)

Date 05-15-2009 15:56

****Johnyutah*****

Best handle on the forum!

By DaveBoyer (*****)

Date 05-16-2009 03:24

One of the welding contractors in My area may be seen with an air cooled 301 Trailblazer from time to time. No, He is not a cutthroat or hack, but when He needs AC TIG, Aux power to run a plasma cutter or is going to do a wire feed job that little Trailblazer is on the truck instead of the SA 200 or SA 250 that He owns. Horses for courses, so to speak. I might add that He isn't doing piplines, mostly facility work. Those machines do have their place, only cost 4K and have decent resale value if You replace them before they crap out.

By OBEWAN

Date 05-15-2009 20:20

I don't see how an accurate prediction can be made. I mean it even depends a lot on who is in office. McCain was a lot more likely to support nuclear power construction than Obama is. The price of oil will predict how many oil field jobs there are...yada yada..

Yes it may be possible to predict retirements, but if we could predict future job demand, we would all be rich from stock market investments.

I have seen very little encouragement locally wage wise. There are a few jobs that pay in the low 20's, but most of them pay $8 or $9 an hour. That kind of disrespect for skilled trades is doing little to encourage young people to enter the trade.

Now, what about welding engineers? How many of them will be retiring?

By dbigkahunna (****)

Date 05-17-2009 00:01 Edited 05-17-2009 00:04

I am wondering who will train these new welders?
No disrespect to professional educators, but some welding "teachers" at the high school level are there because they are too lazy to steal. Most have never worked as a welder and cannot press the conditions these entry level positions will be faced with. The high school counselors only want students on a degree track and discourage potential tradespeople from entering the profession. And local industry does little to encourage or set up coop training programs for potential tradespeople. Or compensate those who have high proficiency.

I think in the next few years welding will see a small group of high skill level workers trained by schools who will charge high prices for the training, a larger base of basic skilled welders who get their training from decent high school and excellent community college certificate programs and a large group of marginally skilled workers whose work is only worth $8-10 coming from immigration or the larger majority of high school and community college welding programs.
BABRT's

By DaveBoyer (*****)

Date 05-17-2009 05:48

I don't know what Vo Tec high school programs are like now, but in the '70s there was about 1 student in each years welding class that applied themselves, and the rest were there to kill time and smoke cigs in the welding booth. The administraters dumped special ed kids in welding shop just to have a place to put them. The teacher did what He could, given the circumstances.

Of these projected welding jobs, some will be semi-skilled jobs and some will be skilled trades jobs. The former won't pay much, hopefully the latter will pay close to what You guys are used too. I agree that some sort of training beyond the typical Vo Tec high school will be needed for the skilled trades jobs. I think ideally, apprenticeship would be the best solution, but probably not the most common one.

By Cole Welding (**)

Date 05-17-2009 16:38

But there are lots of welder sitting a home with no job

By DaveBoyer (*****)

Date 05-18-2009 04:57

The economy goes in cycles of boom & bust. If You have been arround a while You have seen it before.

Save money when You are making a lot, because You will need it when times get rough, like they are now.

When things pick up I do believe there will be more welding jobs than QUALIFIED welders.

By The Ruffian (**)

Date 05-19-2009 00:39

I agree!

By chris2698 (****)

Date 05-17-2009 23:57

Dave I must say in my welding class I would say myself and maybe one or two others are actually out there welding and making good money the rest are probally in jail or have move onto other things. I work with one guy who is a welder from my class another friend is well both a welder and a machinist and that maybe about it.. possibly one more made it welding but out of the other 10 or more students there are just deadbeats.

So no not much has changed students want to make the big bucks but don't want to put any effort into working for it. Nothing new. I seen some guys that could totally out weld me any day of the week but just didn't put the effort into learning and trying to do better. Late to school all the time hell you can't be late to a job like that.