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Up Topic American Welding Society Services / Technical Standards & Publications / WPS/PQR Qualifacation By Third Party
- - By jerry6004 (*) Date 05-14-2009 14:47
If company A is the prime contractor on a site,  can they use (barrow) a welder from Company B to weld their PQR's?  Company B is being paid by Company A but the welder receives a check for Company B.  AWS D1.1.  Company A is the final company that needs the welding procedures.
Parent - - By MBSims (****) Date 05-14-2009 22:11
As long as Company A writes the welding procedures, records the PQR data and has the required testing performed, all under their quality program and direct supervision, I see no problem with hiring an outside company to perform the welding.  The welder will have to follow Company A's WPS and take technical direction from Company A's representative.
Parent - - By Bill M (***) Date 05-15-2009 12:53
I would agree with MB -

I realize this is an AWS inquiry-

ASME Sect 9 is very specific
QW-201

"The welders or welding operators used to produce weldments to be tested for qualification of procedures shall be under the full supervision and control of the manufacturer or contractor during the production of these test weldments.  The weldments to be tested for qualification of procedures shall be welded either by direct employees or by individuals engaged by contract for their services as welders or welding operators under the full supervision and control of the manufacturer or contractor.  it is not permissible for the manufacturer or contractor to have the supervision and control of welding of the test weldments performed by another organization."
Parent - By michael kniolek (***) Date 05-15-2009 20:43
Bill,in  ASME
Its clear that the ASME Co could hire any welder they want (under contract) and test them.
I just want to discuss the word "Individual"
If A small fabrication Company of say 5 people were hired to weld for an ASME shop (All tested by the ASME shop) would the contract(s) be written to the Small companies name or would each person need thier own contract?
And would this welding be required to be done on the ASME shop premisses?
MDK
Parent - - By Mikeqc1 (****) Date 05-15-2009 16:41
I asked around and the common thought is that it is acceptable.
MDK
Parent - - By jerry6004 (*) Date 05-15-2009 18:19
Thank you.
Parent - - By 803056 (*****) Date 05-18-2009 12:12 Edited 05-18-2009 13:36
Clause 4.1.1.1 states that each contractor or manufacturer shall conduct tests required by the code to qualify their WPS. It would seem that the manufacturer would use personnel that are employees, but it isn't defined.

The Engineer can permit the use of standard WPSs, which are founded on PQRs submitted by various manufacturers is a case where the testing is performed by every Tom, Dick, and Harry that was kind enough to provide them to AWS free of charge. The company that elects to use the standard WPS doesn't get to see the PQRs or the ranges of the welding parameters used to qualify the WPS.

I would be strongly tempted to use the concept of the standard WPS as justification that anyone can qualify the WPS as long as the manufacturer or contractor is willing to sign the dotted line accepting responsibility for the WPS used for production. Why should AWS be the only entity (that allows anyone to qualify the WPS) that sells the product?

Just to be clear, I don't care for the concept of the standard WPS because there is much valuable information to be learned when a company follows the process of qualifying the WPS. Those lessons are not learned by buying the WPS from AWS or anyone else. It's like going to college to earn a degree and buying your term papers and laboratory reports off the internet. Colleges and universities understand students do not learn from having someone else do their homework. I don't believe my good friends Lawrence or "fbrieden" would give their students passing grades for buying their homework from a student of a previous class or off the internet. In the same manner, companies don't learn the lessons that need to be learned when they buy their WPSs from a third party whether the third party is AWS or "Billy Joe's House of WPSs".

Companies need to develop their own in-house welding guru. The process of qualifying WPSs in-house provides the opportunity for the "guru-wannabe" to learn how to control the welding process and what does and does not work. The employer can speed the process by hiring one of the few welding engineers available or they can spend time to develop in-house expertise by attending the "School of Hardknocks".

Best regards - Al
Parent - - By kipman (***) Date 05-18-2009 13:27
Well said, Al!
Parent - By 803056 (*****) Date 05-18-2009 13:36
Thanks Kip.

Best regards - Al
Up Topic American Welding Society Services / Technical Standards & Publications / WPS/PQR Qualifacation By Third Party

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