Spgtti , I've been in this business since 1982 and have seen alot of ups and downs. The ingrates I'm talkin' about are guys that think they should be exempt or impervious from economies downturns, if business is slow IT'S GOING TO AFFECT YOU period. I take care of my guys best I can, but if a guy can't see it or doesn't care to see it then he has problems besides income. I also like the guys that get suckered into running to another fab. shop because their payin' another buck or two above whats rate in the area, they have to go NOW because their needed imediately and then the job is finished and their DONE that day. It's funny when they walk back in tryin' to act like they did nothing stupid and want to come back ,but they were told on hire " You can leave whenever you want, just don't leave me without 2 wks. notice and you only leave once" guess they think their so good you will always need them.( Have had at least 20 guys since I started pull this) My shop foreman knows don't even bother me with this nonsense! Bottom line is my business will survive to make money again and if you have key employees to take care of (because they make you money) then I do what I can to care for them. I could last alot longer laying everyone off , let the secretary answer the phone and I could go fishin' till things pick up and hire a new crew ,but I wouldn't consider that loyalty on my part. One of the best lessons I learned about business was when US STEEL bought MARATHON OIL and at the news conference a reporter asked the CEO "why did US STEEL buy MARATHON because your in the steel business not the oil business " the CEO replied "no US STEEL is in business to make MONEY not steel or oil", I think alot of people lose sight of that fact about businesses. PS. GO PITTSBURGH, THE CITY OF CHAMPIONS STEELERS AND STANLEY CUP WINNERS, PENS.