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Up Topic Chit-Chat & Non-Welding Discussion / Off-Topic Bar and Grill / Elections in Iran
- - By js55 (*****) Date 06-15-2009 16:12
Isn't it hilarious how we seem to be gettin our bowels in an uproar over voter fraud in the Iranian elections.
CNN, FOX, and the others are all over the story.
Never mind we had the EXACT same problem here just last November
Black Panthers intimidating people at the poles (3 members of the BPP were arrested for threatening people at the poles by the Justice Department and were just about to go to tiral until the President stepped in and order the JD to drop the charges-imagine that), Acorn with a history of voter fraud up to their same shenanigans in the last election, and here in Ohio where all you have to do is express the desire to move here and you can vote here (I am dead azz serious), meaning double voting was running rampant.
So I would say that before we go gettin all sanctimonious about Iran, we shovel out the dog poo in our own elections first.
Would it have changed the result?
Probably not. Though there is nothing certain here. It doesn't take much to swing a critical state.
Besides, is that any reason to go into ostrich mode? Perhaps if you're hell bent on getting your guy elected and you couldn't care less about the will of the people because you know better than they what is good for America.
Woulda been nice if CNN and the big three networks had shown as much indignation last November.
Parent - - By dbigkahunna (****) Date 06-15-2009 17:03
This is from Karl Denninger
http://market-ticker.denninger.net/archives/1122-Proud-To-Be-American-You-Should-Be-Ashamed.html

Proud to Be American You Should be Ashamed!

We have seen the largest looting operation in history perpetrated against The American People.

Over $5 trillion dollars in junk securities were marketed and sold.  They had a real value of about $2 trillion dollars; the other $3 trillion, roughly, was pure fiction.

The banks created and sold these throughout the world, with the full knowledge and support of Congress, The Fed, and the banks themselves.

It was pure fraud.

Granting someone a "mortgage" based only on whether they can fog a mirror is proof positive of malfeasance, unless you disclose this fact to the buyers of these securities - a fact that was not disclosed until after the securities blew up.

Lenders, builders and others pressured appraisers to "hit the numbers" to support these fraudulent deals.  Proof of that is found in the nearly-10-year-old Appraisers Petition bearing thousands of appraiser signatures.

That ratings were a "mistake", either real or intentional, is a matter of now-known historical fact.

Americans have sat on their butts through all of this, allowed their 401ks and IRAs to be trashed, their supposed "home values" to be pumped and then destroyed, and their hopes, dreams, employment and house have all vanished into the ether of fraud.

When this came to light the banks went to Congress, and supported by The Fed's intentional draining of liquidity to create an immediate "crisis", they got a $700 billion bailout bill passed - one that you, your children and grandchildren, will have to pay for.

The government then passed another near-trillion-dollar "stimulus" bill claimed to hold unemployment to 8%.  It did not, because it was yet another "papering over" of the fraud, but that bill your children and grandchildren, along with you, will also pay.

Your savings accounts and CDs now yield an effective zero.

Your credit card interest rates have gone from 11% to 29%, all so that the banks can keep granting ill-advised credit to people who can't pay.  Those who can pay - the rest of you - are being jacked for 30% a year in interest.

We have seen a few "tea parties" in which a few people showed up and which were immediately panned by "those in power" as "astroturf."

Contrast with this.

A few days ago, Iran held an election.  It is alleged that there was massive fraud.  The current President claimed victory under less-than-clear circumstances.

The people said "hell no!" in this sort of demonstration:
That's about 2 million people, out of 70 million population (roughly), or one in thirty-five Iranians in the entire nation who took to the streets to demand justice in a simple vote.

More strikingly, Tehran has a population of roughly 12 million; this means that one in six citizens of the city are standing in that crowd.

This, despite the fact that the government there has been shooting people, has arrested the opposition party and issued an order to burn the ballots so there can be no recount.

This, despite the fact that the Iranian population does not enjoy a Second Amendment, and thus is forced to fight a rogue government with makeshift molotov cocktails, rocks and clubs, should that rogue government choose to shoot.

And this was about an election.  A President.  One man.

In our nation we have literally had 1/3rd of our GDP - that is, 1/3rd of everything you worked for last year - stolen by a bunch of fraudsters with the explicit cooperation and assistance of the government.

We should be seeing 10 million Americans literally closing Washington DC with peaceful protest in the streets - making the entirety of the downtown inaccessible to vehicles and the normal conduct of business impossible, were Americans to display the same sort of anger over an insult vastly more serious than that served upon the Iranian people.

If one in six Americans had enough in America's big cities, there would be one million people in the Streets of Chicago - enough to fill Chicago's Loop from Lake Michigan to I-90/94 and from The Chicago River to beyond Soldier Field, rendering the city core impassable.  (Roughly double the crowd that shows up for the 4th of July Fireworks, to put it in perspective.  "Greater Chicagoland" has a population of ~7 million)

The same in NY City would result in a crowd of 3.3 million people.

Where are you America?

In America, if the government turns into a goon squad, you have the constitutionally-protected ability to shoot back.  In Iran you have no such ability as the Iranian government has never recognized the unalienable rights as set forth in our Declaration.

So in Iran the population risks mass death to protest.

In America the population risks loss of some income since you'd have to cut work.

The Iranians take to the streets; we take to our couches and have another beer.

Grow a pair of balls America.

The people of Iran are putting us to shame.

PS: Those threats appear not to have been idle either:
Parent - - By BryonLewis (****) Date 06-15-2009 17:36
"you have the constitutionally-protected ability to shoot back"

That's funny.

The rest of it is true.  When gas was $4 a gallon here, we bit*hed about it, but we still drove all over the place.  I think the Constitutional right to lawful assembly kind of softened us up about protesting.  Generally you get a permit from the city and the "choir" shows up to listen to the "preacher".  Regardless of the protest topic there will be a dozen guys show up to counter act the topic of the protest.  It turns into a dog and pony show and nothing else comes out of the protest. 

Whatareyougonnado!!!
Parent - By Lawrence (*****) Date 06-15-2009 18:00
The Democrat party and their overlords regularly fill school busses with children at taxpayer expense for the purposes of freely assembeling to criticize one thing or another.  The numbers are always inflated to suggest some sort of groundswell of support and the college students and high shcool children make for excellent photos.

You see no busses now because the Democrats are quite happy with the current situation.
Parent - By darren (***) Date 06-20-2009 20:37
could you imagine if the had the constitution, the bill of rights and the declaration of independence, now they would fight to protect it.
well at least for now then in two hundred years they would probably watch their elections be subverted and stand by while their freedoms were eroded as well.
when our freedoms are gone maybe then we will rise up. too late.
Parent - - By Joseph P. Kane (****) Date 06-17-2009 12:56
I'll bet that Al Gore actually won.  Don't Tell Bryon Lewis.
Parent - - By BryonLewis (****) Date 06-17-2009 13:37 Edited 06-17-2009 13:39
Now now.  Be nice.  That's all water under the bridge.  Don't talk about Al behind his back.  He's busy saving the planet.  :-)
Parent - - By Joseph P. Kane (****) Date 06-17-2009 16:24
Bryon

I meant in Iran.
Parent - By BryonLewis (****) Date 06-17-2009 16:57
Oops.  :-)
Parent - - By Cumminsguy71 (*****) Date 06-17-2009 14:26
What I don't understand, Iran has an election for a, hmmm, "President" and Ahmadinejad is elected again and everyone acts surprised? Remember the "election" Suddenly Insane had in Iraq before his outing? Where he, oddly enough.....won?? Prrrresident, Rrrrrrriggght.

I suppose that would be like having Kim Jong ll say there was going to be a "Presidential Election" and of the two folks running was his 26 year old son. Who would win that election I suppose?? Hmmmm??? I'd like to lay money down on a bet that easy.

Now there are cry's of how the US needs to support the protestors? Wait a minute, kinda got our own problems over here right now, besides, uh, don't you guys burn the American Flag in the streets just for kicks??? Oh that's right, we're the "World Police" apparently. A job I thought our ball less, space wasting turds at the UN were supposed to handle, doing a bang up job over there in NYC by the way.

Boy, I have to stop getting into these discussions. Everytime I do I have this feeling that my name is moving farther up some list in DC!! :-)
Parent - - By BryonLewis (****) Date 06-17-2009 14:50
The deal with the Iranian president is this....he's nothing but a shi* talkin' figure head.  The Ayatollah seems to be the one with the power.  So I don't think either guy being president will make much difference in relations with the rest of the "civilized" world.  The difference in Iran and Iraq is that Saddam was the DICKtator so he had ALL the power. 

But what I have heard about the differences in their brands of Islam is that Sunnis (much of Iraq) are more strict and not open to debate of their beliefs.  Whereas the ****es (Iran) do debate over the Koran.  So in theory Iran could one day become more sympathetic to the West than the Sunnis.  Not that it will happen anytime soon.  :-(

The fact that there is ongoing riots and protests in Iran makes me think that there is a great bit of difference in the mindset of Iranians.  We were buddies with Iran when the Shah was around and IMO I think Iran might be able to become more tolerant of us infidels one day.
Parent - - By js55 (*****) Date 06-17-2009 16:31
For years it has been stated we need to support the people in Iran, (especially with the left when it was important to bash Bush for talking tough, though not necessarily). Perhaps even foster revolution. An idea I actually happen to agree with.
However, what bothers me the most here is Obama went woose on this whole issue. Clearly he is trying to vote "present' again by not making a commitment. Big shocker there.
Millions of people take to the streets in Tehran and he doesn't have the sack to support them for fear of offending Ahmadinijad. Even the talking heads for the left are a little embarrassed by his soft stance. Or lack of stance at all.
I guess the next course of action is to go talk pretty in the Middle East somewhere and see if it pacifies the justifiably pissed off Iranian citizens. Its been the primary plan of action thus far.
Parent - By js55 (*****) Date 06-17-2009 16:33
PS: The idea of Ahmadinijad having no power is way way overstated. Sure, the Ayatollah is the man. But this guy has major stroke. Lets not kid ourselves. Or at least Obama thinks so. Why else would he whiff on taking a stand in support of the Iranian people?
Parent - - By bozaktwo1 (***) Date 06-17-2009 16:56
There isn't a bookie in Vegas who'd take odds on what the CIA is up to over there right now.  As it stands, I think we should be much, MUCH more concerned with N. Korea than with Iran.  However, Ahminewhakjob is going to have to be dealt with soon as well.
Parent - By michael kniolek (***) Date 06-17-2009 23:30
I think its none of our business, let them implode on themselves or fight for thier own freedom.
We have our own election fraud, and if we are leading by example we have nothing to say.
MDK
Parent - - By uphill (***) Date 06-20-2009 11:11
My depression schooled Dad told me that the dog who bites isnt usually the one who barks. Doesnt really matter who we help or back as the USA's record on picking allies in volital countries sucks mucho. Their will be someone who uses Nukes unless we convert All of the radioactive material to power producing rods. In this time of chemical dna re-engineering some 8 year old genius must have a plan. Many thousands of good people have died and are still dying to keep America free from Dick-taters. Thank a Vet for your freedoms.

The blue hats are not enough to scare the nuke wanabe's, hell Hillery couldnt do it and look what she did to Thumblike willy.
Parent - - By js55 (*****) Date 06-21-2009 18:26
The idea that events in Iran don't effect us, and that we should be hands off, is dangerous and irresponsible.
It is the Iranian regime that supports Hezbollah and Hamas.
It is the Iranian regime that blew up 19 Americans in the Khobar Towers in 96.
The Iranian regime has been shown to aid Al Qaeda according to the 911 Commision Report.
Iran exported war material to foreign counterinsurgents in Iraq.
Iran has increased antisemitic rhetoric and talk of the destuction of one our best allies.
And this is just a short list.
And now, we have a grass roots freedom movement in Iran and our President is sitting on his hands because he doesn't want Ahmadinijad to blame us.
Hey, Schicklgruber. He already is. And besides. Who cares?
Let me ask this, does Schicklgrubers sitting on the fence in this one strengthen the regime, or the protestors?
Where are the American liberals and all their proud rhetoric of 'we support the people of Iran but not the government'?
Schicklgrubers silence is their silence. BAAAAHHHHHH!!!!!
Parent - By uphill (***) Date 06-22-2009 02:00
Events everywhere affect US. Our waiting to side with the winner is usual for liberals, I agree. 
The biggest supporter of terrorism is Saudi Arabia, they do so to be on both sides make money from all. Must be something like the south african diamond moguls, the more hype you produce the more you can control pricing and supply only with the S/A's its oil to Europe. America needs no-one and if it were not for crappy imports and big biz making money hand over fist most of America would be gainfully employed. Iran will fall to some sort of new age government whether Schiklgruber reads from a teleprompter or not.  They would have anyway no matter who is in the oval office. It is a electronic age any they cant hide behind the control of a strict religion anymore.  There are no secrets anymore.
  Iran will use nukes to wipe someone out unless something is done. More likely it will mean some lever of War. Isreal isnt going to wait to respond to a first strike. Dont think Iran will be bought off for money that will leave the country before the ink dries. It will end up in Switzerland.

Its too late to say anything from the heart, the chicken b#st%rds have already proven that..
Up Topic Chit-Chat & Non-Welding Discussion / Off-Topic Bar and Grill / Elections in Iran

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