OK folks, I would like to try to clarify what constitutes made in the USA as opposed to assembled in the USA. My thoughts are that for it to be labeled "Made in the USA" a product should be made entirely of parts/components manufactured in the USA. If a product has, lets say 80% parts/components that are made here, but for whatever reason, the other 20% of widgets, thingamabobs, and a couple of doohickeys, "cannot" be found in the USA, and are purchased from, for example, Korea or Mexico, shipped in and the product is assembled in Dallas, TX.That is not, IMHO, "made in the USA" it is "assembled in the USA". Now, it is sure a lot closer than the product that is imported from China, but is still supporting overseas/foreign products regardless of the percentages.
So what are your thoughts on "Made in the USA" as opposed to "Assembled in the USA"?
jrw159
AS FAR AS MADE IN THE USA I WOULD HAVE LIKE TO SEE THIS BLOATED STIMULUS BILL ACTUALY BUILD UP OUR INDUSTRIAL MANUFACTURING.
2/3 OF THIS STIMULUS ALL BUDGET RELIEF AND SOCIAL PROGRAMS.
WE ARE DOOMED
Would it really make a difference with consumer sentiment?
Me personally? I would still buy an assembled in USA Honda from Ohio because it is a superior product with superior reliability. That is what drives most consumers, and as a case in point, Honda is not in bankruptcy yet.
My cousins work at that Ohio plant, and one of them made nearly $60,000 a year as a simple line worker. It is a myth that they provide inferior wages and benefits. Those people in Ohio are thankful to have the jobs they have even if some of the work is done outside the country. The same cannot be said for those unfortunate individuals who have been thrown out of jobs by the BIG 3 made in USA people.
At any rate, I think your proposal already has taken place with cars. I think the window sticker is supposed to say what percent of content is USA supplied. It apparently did not help the Big 3 survive.
"Would it really make a difference with consumer sentiment?"
This is kind of what I am getting at. I hear all the time, "As Americans we should only buy American made products" and I agree, but in reality, this is next to impossible to do. I often wonder how many people realize that they only "think" they are buying an American "made" product when in actuality they are buying an American "assembled" product.
I feel that if I were to manufacture a product that is made up of parts from America, Korea, and Mexico it is not an "American Made" product, it is a product "assembled in America". And if I slap a "Made in America" sticker on it, I would be pulling the wool over the eyes of the American consumer.
Pretty basic, IMHO.
jrw159
The American consumer is looking for CHEAP! No matter where it comes from or the quality.
Cheap.
We hire the low cost bidder to do work with the cheapest material expecting first class work.
Without any of the politcal BS (its getting real old), I would like to see mandates where manufactures would have to place tags on their goods, similar to what car companies have done, telling the victims...er...consumers what percentage is from foreign materials and where it is assembles. I have seen a lot of tags on clothing stating, assembled in USA with foreign material. But I would like to see a standardized and mandatory tag on ALL products. Maybe even if it is all foreign materials assembled in a overseas, I would like to know exactly where the componants come from.
With that said, I don't think that would change my buying habits much, because most of the time there is no American alternative to purchase. I don't mind buying "foreign" goods that are made here, like Honda, Toyota or whatever. Major foreign investment is making jobs here so I would have to support that.
America is turning into a big garage sale for foreign investors, but its keeping a lot of people working so what the hell.
Here is more of what we are talking about. It seems we are both right. The stickers have been around 15 years according to the WSJ:
"For nearly 15 years, the U.S. government has required, under the American Automobile Labeling Act, that car makers disclose to consumers what share of the car's components are made in the U.S. or Canada -- another way of saying, made by people paid something comparable to U.S. wages. A 2001 study by NHTSA found that more than 75% of 646 people surveyed weren't aware of the existence of the domestic content information, and only 5% of those surveyed said the disclosures -- usually on a window sticker -- affected their decision "to any degree whatsoever." The NHTSA study also observed that "the introduction of AALA labels in model-year 1995 was not followed by a resurgence of U.S./Canadian parts content in the overall new vehicle fleet, but rather a modest decline from an average of 70 percent in model year 1995 to 67.6 percent in model year 1998."
Here is the link to the whole article (on cars % USA content):
http://online.wsj.com/article/SB123265601944607285.html
few look at the big picture of their decisions... few understand the consequences of their actions and even fewer care.
That has led to our current situation. Due to the outlook of "CHEAP, CHEAPER and CHEAPEST" our nation is now a consumer nation and has fallen far away from the freedoms allowed by being a Industrial nation...
Very well put. .. . . . ...
In 2006 We went out in a snowstorm to replace out 1996 explorer. Drove a Ford 500 with all wheel drive, a couple of various suv's. On the way home we stopped at Honda and drove a Element AWD. My wife likes it a lot and its ok for me as it has lots of headroom. The selling point was resale and percentage of American made parts. It had 4% more American parts than all other vehicals driven. Its not a travelling type but is a good go-cart.
I have driven Fords my whole life and it wasnt easy to switch, My honda is worth 80-85% of what I payed for it after 3 1/2 years and 40,000 miles. In retrospect a 2006 Ford 500 is worth 30% of purchase price. The odd part is that Ford is doing OK and their resale value is better than most.
"Would you take a heart transplant from the lowest bidder?" is a favorite bumper sticker I have seen.
As I recall it goes like this:
80 percent of the parts of any given object has to be American made.
Then you get into what constitutes what is "made in America".
So lets break that down:
If I am company x making widget B that consist of 100 various and assundry machined parts, then each of those parts could be 80 percent made in America and 20 else where "to completion".
Or: they could every one be caste machined, etc up to 80 percent, shipped to America as "raw materials" then final machined here and be classified as 100 percent made in America.
While 80 percent of the work is done elsewhere, we end up with the scraps (20 percent) and label it American made.
Made in America is no statement of loyality to America, I'd rather see it say assembled in the USA as that at least is closer to the truth.
It's probably too late to get any laws or regulations on it but it does need to be regulated. Problem then is if it applies to everyone then everytime you fabricate something here you have to prove it just the same lol. But did your steel really come from here and where did your rod come from? A guy in machine shop near here came from Mexico but yes he is legal now but when goes down to visit family has said in factories has seen things put together with parts from boxes said Taiwann or China and then labeled made in Mexico and some even labeled made in USA or made in America. How do you really know if their label is a lie or real? More regulations we don't want to know about or have to pay for. I finally got use to some bearings from Korea deciding those were okay and last time I specified that brand and they came in same box from Korea but bearing says made in China GRRRRRRRRRRRRR. Cheap china slave labor working for nothing and union labor here wanting more and greedy corporate executives forced all this to happen NOT the consumer we just want a quality product at a good price not screwed everytime we buy something.
Maybe just the boxes are made in Taiwan and not the products in them. :-)
Yep boxes from Taiwann, some parts from Tim Buck Too or china but we know the balls sure didn't come from Washington DC ? :)
The "Country of Origin" requirements can be seen here:
http://www.cbp.gov/linkhandler/cgov/newsroom/publications/trade/co_origin.ctt/markingo.docBasically, the material has to be labeled to let the "ultimate end user" (not distributor in most cases) know the origin of the material IN THE FORM IN WHICH IT IS IMPORTED.
after that, one has to consider the phrase "substantial transformation" - was the material substantially transformed in the US?
For example - raw materials for coated electrodes come from all over the world to a plant in the US. Each raw material has to be labeled as to its country of origin. Once in the US plant, these raw materials are substantially transformed into something else (coated electrodes). They can now - to my understanding - be labeled "Made in the USA"
Phil,
That is a pretty informative document. As for your example, I would look at that as being "Made in the USA" due to raw materials.
jrw159
I just realized how unclear my last section was. Here it is in a better form:
For example - raw materials for coated electrodes come from all over the world to a plant in the US. Each raw material has to be labeled as to its country of origin. Once in the US plant, these raw materials are substantially transformed into something else (coated electrodes). The coated electrodes can now - to my understanding - be labeled "Made in the USA"
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