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Up Topic American Welding Society Services / Certifications / Can a CWI test or use stamp for himself?
- - By Glassboy Date 07-07-2009 02:08
I'm a new CWI, welder by trade, I'm also an instructor at the trade school that I work for. I was wondering would  a CWI be able to stamp either a wps, or other documentation in his own name, as long as all procedures were followed. Any info would be greatly appreciated. Thanks.
Parent - - By michael kniolek (***) Date 07-07-2009 02:30
Im not sure if is not allowed as a matter o fact i remember a thread......

http://www.americanweldingsociety.org/cgi-bin/mwf/topic_show.pl?pid=144307;hl=CONFLICT

its not a good practice , but i dont think it would be rejected.
MDK
Parent - By Glassboy Date 07-08-2009 01:43
Thanks for the advice.. greatly appreciated
Parent - By Lawrence (*****) Date 07-07-2009 04:49 Edited 07-07-2009 04:52
If you were building pre qualified WPS for your students to use for projects and performance qualification testing you could certainly stamp the WPS as the creator.  You could have your department dean sign for final approval or representative.

Many schools are one man shows..  Since school certs are not used for production work but really only as a way to verify a student has performed a particular weld, I personally don't have alot of heartburn with an instructor signing off on performance qualification test reports.  The fact is that in industry the CWI for a shop may also have a collateral duty as a trainer..  Many third party inspectors may also provide some training or brushup exercises if welders don't pass a qual test on the first shot.   The last two examples usually pass the smell test so why not a professional instructor?

AWS accredited test facilities are a different story. They have strict guidelines as to who can teach who can test and who can interpret.  One of the reasons that being an ATF requires an institution to have a sizeable staff.  

Another way would be to establish a relationship with your local AWS section and get some special guests to come in and observe performance tests several times each semester and have them stamp off the work after the destructive testing is complete.   Many of those special guest CWI's may be able to help your students find work if they impress with their testing.
Parent - - By Ke1thk (**) Date 07-07-2009 14:47
I'm a welder, trainer, document creator and salesman.  I write all welding documents for my employer, and weld most of the samples for my PQR's.  I outsource the tensile testing and most other NDT for the PQR's. 

My customers include some of the biggest names in defense as well as the Government.  Various customers audit me at least three times a year.  I've never had a problem with writing a PQR, WPS, and Qualification using myself as the welder, and myself as the CWI. 

Good Luck,

Keith
Parent - By jwright650 (*****) Date 07-07-2009 14:53
Keith has a point...as long as the customer is aware of and OK with the arrangement, there isn't a problem.

edit: it just isn't good practice to inspect your own work from a QA/QC standpoint.
Parent - By Glassboy Date 07-08-2009 01:43
Thanks for the advice, greatly appreciated
Parent - - By HgTX (***) Date 07-07-2009 20:35
I'm pretty sure I usually see CWIs stamp their own WPS, but a 3rd-party has to do the PQR.    Then, depending on the client, the client may review & stamp the documentation as well.

I guess it depends on whether you take the stamp to mean "I made this documentation and here's my stamp to stand behind it" or "I inspected this and it's good."  If you're inspecting a weld, you don't want to inspect your own work.  But for paperwork, I don't think it's even close to universal to have a second level of eyes on the procedures themselves, whether WPS, SOP, whatever.

But don't take my word for any of this.

Hg
Parent - By Glassboy Date 07-08-2009 01:45
Thanks for the advice, greatly appreciated.
Parent - - By bmaas1 (***) Date 07-07-2009 21:13
I personally do not believe it is wise to approve your own work whether it be a procedure or performance qualification for 2 reasons.

1.)  I think it is a big conflict of interest.

2.)  Even tho the tests may be perfect and not one ounce of defect anywhere to be seen seeing, seeing the same name listed as the appover (one who stamps, signs, does all the bends, etc), raises a giant red flag to a person who may be reviewing these documents and can cast a big dark shadow of doubt on the situation.  Usually can cause more problems than it is worth.  If it doesn't seem right it probably isn't. Just my opinion.

Brian
Parent - - By HgTX (***) Date 07-07-2009 21:42
I didn't mean a welded plate or a test, just the paper procedure itself.  A lot of welding procedures don't require qualification tests, and even those that do, I see the CWI stamp on the procedure itself, and then a 3rd-party lab does the testing (on a plate NOT welded by that same CWI).

So I probably just totally misunderstood the original question.

Hg
Parent - By bmaas1 (***) Date 07-07-2009 21:54
I don't think the question was specific enough.  You can develope a WPS, weld it out and send it out to a third party for testing, for your PQR if needed, and that's not a problem.  I do that alot.  Just send the WPS with it. No problem.

Brian
Parent - By Glassboy Date 07-08-2009 01:45
Thanks for the advice.. greatly appreciated..
Up Topic American Welding Society Services / Certifications / Can a CWI test or use stamp for himself?

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