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Up Topic Welding Industry / General Welding Discussion / Measuring pre-heated temp.before welds
- - By zimbo Date 06-29-2003 08:14
I,m working on a facade project that requires the welding of galvanised steel brackets to cast-in steel plates to support large steel hollow sections. The cast in steel plates are 75mm in thickness and therefore require pre-heating so I,m trying to locate a company /companies that supply the pencil type material that can be used for determining when the heated steel has reached a certain temperature.
The project is in Hong Kong so I,m hoping that any companies supplying such material operate online services.

If anyone can help with information it would be greatly appreciated

Cheers
Parent - - By CHGuilford (****) Date 06-29-2003 12:21
I don't know what is available in Hong Kong but here in the USA, temp sticks made by Tempil are readily available.
Their web address is www.tempil.com

You might also try www.omega.com, They list an international contact number.

Other manufacturer's make temperature indicating crayons but I don't recall what the brands are. Perhaps a web search will provide the info?

Chet Guilford
Parent - By jwright650 (*****) Date 06-30-2003 15:33
Tempil is the brand we use also, I have found them at any local welding supply shop when I was out of town and needed one. I'm not sure if overseas will carry them or not, but CHG has given the address, so check em out.
John Wright
Parent - - By zimbo Date 07-06-2003 12:18
G,day Chet

I,ve checked out the tempil web site and the product is ideal so I,ve passed their details to our purchasing department to follow up.

Many thanks

Chris Floyd
Parent - - By ctate (*) Date 07-08-2003 01:44
What do you guys think about using an infrared thermometer to measure preheat temperature?
Parent - - By Michael Sherman (***) Date 07-08-2003 11:12
Cheap ones are not as accurate as they should be and it is cost prohibitive to give good ones to every welder. Temp sticks are accurate and inexpensive.

Mike Sherman
Shermans Welding
Parent - - By ctate (*) Date 07-08-2003 11:24
I was looking into getting a set of temp sticks and you are looking at about $150 for a good set. For some one like a Welding inspector a $200 Infrared thermometer would probably be the way to go. I have not used them in our fab shop for checking weld pre heat. We use a pretty nice one here to check gearbox temperature and it works pretty nice. I just was not sure if there would be a downfall to using one of these for welding or not.

Thanks,
Parent - - By CHGuilford (****) Date 07-08-2003 13:35
As Mike pointed out, temp sticks are cheap and accurate. I would not buy a full set unless I had a specific need for all the temperature ranges. Instead I would purchase the tempsticks needed for the work at hand.

I have and use an infra red thermometer for informal use. It has been useful, especially for "clandestine" checks on preheat and portable rod ovens. The problem with it is that you will get different readings on clean, shiny surfaces as opposed to dull dark surfaces. In fact the instructions state that the most accurate results are on non-glossy black surfaces. Something to do with emissivity, which I won't even try to explain because I don't understand it at this time. What I do understand is that shiny surfaces that melted 500 deg F tempsticks might show only 300-400 deg with the infra red. You have to be careful and consistent to get accurate readings.

Also, temp sticks are accurate to 1% or 2% of their rating. You can even get certified temp sticks if you need them. Infra red thermometers can be calibrated, for a price, but then you still have to use them under controlled conditions to assure accuracy.

If you are an independent QA inspector, very often the contractor is required to provide the use of appropriate temp sticks.
And if an independent inspector uses infra red on a job I am doing QC on, I still want to verify the readings with tempsticks, based on my experiences.

Finally, I should mention that temp sticks do need to be stored properly. You don't want to get them wet. And I don't know how long a shelf life they have so on a "critical" job, I would make sure I used fresh ones.
Chet Guilford
Parent - - By ctate (*) Date 07-08-2003 14:26
Chet,
Thanks for the response. I think I will take your advise and go with the temp sticks.

Chuck
Parent - - By DGXL (***) Date 07-08-2003 15:13
I use a (AC/DC) multi meter which has:
Amperage range 0 -2000 amps
Voltage range 0 -600 volts
Temperature range -40 - 2000F (uses a probe)

$250 makes this one of of my primary tools. $50 a year to calibrate with a calibration certificate (required by most entities).

Temp sticks are no good at low temps.
One tool performs 3 functions.
Accuracy is typically better than 1% at calibration time.

I have not used temp sticks for about 6 years now.
Parent - - By CHGuilford (****) Date 07-08-2003 17:17
DXGL,
The type of unit you're talking about is a good option also. Instead of infra red, it uses a thermistor encased in the probe and can be easily calibrated. I would not want to issue one to each welder but they would be OK for QA/QC or supervisors.

Temp sticks rated for 70 deg F used to be available but obviously, they aren't much good on a 90 deg day. I do have 125 deg temp sticks in my cabinet that work fine.
For temps below 125 deg, I use a small, magnetic, surface temperature thermometer commonly used for paint inspection. Since even those must be calibrated for our purposes, I have a couple on hand.

But I think the intent here was something inexpensive and accurate so that welders know if they have enough preheat. In my opinion, temp sticks are still the best way to go for general welding purposes.

Chet Guilford
Parent - By DGXL (***) Date 07-08-2003 19:00
zimbo:
While in Beijing (spelling?) 2 years ago, someone switched my old multimeter while under load while I was not watching. This puked the meter instantly. One of the laborers ran out and purchased a cheap model multimeter which performed the same basic functions, but had much narrower ranges and no bells and whistles. This meter was about 40-USD. It was a "cheap & quick" fix to the problem. While the unit's temp. probe was poorly constructed, it did the job well.

There is also a temp. indication marker brand over in Asia that is much more durable than the Tempil sticks and do not break as easy as Tempils. I do speak some Mandarin, but have no idea who manufactured these as they had Cantonese-Chinese writing (I can't read Mandarin either.)

I also see welders regularly use temp. sticks incorrectly to check interpass temps. They believe the max. is what they should be getting. Typically, they have exceeded the interpass maximum without realizing the mistake.

I would never give my meter to a welder to check preheat. They can use the temp. sticks.

I guess all things are relative. $40 bucks was a quick, accurate and inexpensive resolution for me.
Up Topic Welding Industry / General Welding Discussion / Measuring pre-heated temp.before welds

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