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Up Topic American Welding Society Services / Certifications / as detailed, as fit up
- - By jsdwelder (***) Date 07-21-2009 01:19
Can someone please explain to me what these mean. Why the difference in tolerance? If "as fit up" can differ from as detailed, then why list as detailed at all since the joint will be welded in the as fit up?
Parent - By michael kniolek (***) Date 07-21-2009 02:03
Parent - By pipewelder_1999 (****) Date 07-21-2009 02:19
Or for that matter just put the tolerance in the actual required dimension and forget about as detailed and as-fit up. It seems there is room in the table for having the "Min to Max" dimensions making it easier to see if the joint complies without having to add anything.

There may be some valid reason for doing it so. I just can't figure what it is.
Parent - - By crazycajun (**) Date 07-21-2009 02:49
Well, i would think that when they said  " as detailed" vs. "as fit up" they know what they wanted but, they also know that we were only human, and it would take alot of the man hours on the job if they didnt let 1/16" or 1/8" go here and there, knowing it would not affect the structure as much as it would affect the man hours of a job trying to get everything precise. And on the 8th day tolerance was created haha. I never really got a straight shot on that one either, so i came up with my own theroy. and that was it.
Parent - - By pipewelder_1999 (****) Date 07-21-2009 03:06
I always get a kick out of the response when I find something 1/16" out of tolerance. It could be 10' +/- 1 foot and when I find it 11' 0-1/16" they say "MANNNN ! I can't believe your gonna shoot us down on a 16th !"

I have had project engineers call me and tell me I should allow a 16th "out of tolerance". When I ask them to put it in writing or email, they decline. Why didn't they just put the tolerance in to begin with.
Parent - By swnorris (****) Date 07-21-2009 14:14
Dimensions of groove welds may vary on design or detailed drawings within the limits of tolerances shown in the "as detailed" column in Figures 3.3 and 3.4.  "As fit up" tolerances of Figures 3.3 and 3.4 may be applied to the dimension shown on the detailed drawing.  When fit up tolerances are employed, the minimum PJP weld size must still be met. 
Parent - By jwright650 (*****) Date 07-21-2009 14:20
LOL...Give them two feet to work with and they can't keep within tolerance, and then complain about you being picky over a 1/16"....now that's funny.
Parent - - By crazycajun (**) Date 07-22-2009 00:19
11' 1/16" pass the grinder on in but if they would cut it a 1/16" shy of 10' that would be pure defiance hahaha.  yeah i know what you mena about the mannn statement. I did it when i was building things but i never had more than a 1/8" or it was hell to pay hhahaha. i was double jointing pipe and had a QA come in and make a statement i wrote it all down and asked him to sign and date it here, and he was like just do it and i will say i told you to do it. i said oh really sell that ticket to someone else, because i watched that movie already and it didnt work out to well.
Parent - - By 803056 (*****) Date 07-22-2009 03:45
Just in case you couldn't follow the discussion in the thread mentioned by Mike, here's the short version:

The detailer can use a generic welding symbol with only the prequalified joint detail listed in the tail, i.e., "B-U5" for instance. That being the case the nominal values listed in the AWS code are used by the fitter to assemble the joint, i.e., 45 degree groove angle, 1/4 inch root opening with backing etc. We all know that the fitter isn't going to be dead on, so the inspector uses the "as fit-up" tolerances added or subtracted to the nominal values listed. The as fit-up tolerances would allow 40 degrees to 55 degrees for the groove angle, 3/16 to 3/8 inch for the root opening and still be acceptable.

If the detailer sees a situation where a larger root opening may be beneficial or a larger groove angle, etc. he can take advantage of the "as detailed" allowances. To do so the welding symbol would have to include the values the detailer wants to be used. For instance, the welding symbol would list the prequalified joint in the tail, but the welding symbol would indicate a groove angle of 55 degrees, a root opening of 3/8 inch, etc. Still the skills of the fitter being what they are, will not hit the mark so the inspector verifies the actual conditions meet the detailer's "as detailed" values and adds or subtracts the "as fit-up" values. Provided the actual conditions are within the allowables, all is good on the production floor. If not, that's another thread.  

The only fly in the ointment is how does the fitter know what the nominal values of the groove angle, root opening, etc. are? There in lies the rub. Somehow that information has to be made available to the fitter, welder, and inspector. The fabricator can give everyone a copy of the applicable code or include the information with the WPS or a separate document. AWS doesn't dictate how the information flows to the production floor.

Best regards - Al

Best regards - Al
Parent - By crazycajun (**) Date 07-23-2009 02:31
i understood the convo, i was just throwing a little humor out there.
Up Topic American Welding Society Services / Certifications / as detailed, as fit up

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