FCAW Classifications

By swsweld (****)

Date 07-31-2009 04:12

Ken,
FCAW-G is for gas shielded wire
FCAW-S is for self shielded wire

By welderbrent (*****)

Date 07-31-2009 14:15

In point of fact sws is right, but I think he answered the wrong question.

He answered for process designation. But, I need to check myself to make sure I'm not thinking backward, I believe in the wire manufacturers designation the 'G' stands for gasless. A bit confusing but I believe that is how they do the wire.

Some one may be able to confirm this before I can check my resources.

Have a Great Day, Brent

By magodley (**)

Date 07-31-2009 15:15

AWS A5.29/A5.29m:2005 states the the G, in that position, indicates that the chemical composition of the deposited weld metal is not specified.

By fludnor Date 08-18-2009 03:04

i'm a newbie in this forum and what mr. magoodley stated is the most straightforward answer (which was later elaborated in the latter responses). thanks to all who shared their inputs on this question.
with regards to consumables, the "-G" is best referred from ASME/ AWS A5.20, 5.22 and the like pertaining to flux cored electrodes.
with regards to process, AWS defines FCAW-G as "gas shielded" and FCAW-S as "self shielding".
regards to all!

By welderbrent (*****)

Date 07-31-2009 15:44

To all involved thus far, especially Kenweld (WELCOOME to the forum by the way, at least you have not posted many times and I don't recall seeing you before),

EXXT-X: Now, magodley is right. But let's clarify a little.

With FCAW rather the process is '-G' or '-S' (defined by sws) the break down goes like this"

E= Electrode, the wire is the electrode
First 'X' in your case '8'= 80,000 lbs tensile strength of deposited weld metal
Second 'X' in your case '1'= any position capability of operation, as opposed to '0' which is Horizontal and Flat only
T= Tubular electrode, has a flux core through the center of the wire
The suffix behind your 'T' (the '1' not shown in my EXXT-X) is a suffix having to do with other formulations and characteristics. #'s 3, 4, 6, 7, 8, 10, 11, 13, & 14 need no additional shielding other than what is in the electrode.
#'s 1, 2, 5, 9, & 12 require additional shielding, as in an external gas shield.

The additional suffix of a 'G' or 'GS' following the rest of your number indicate either a multiple pass electrode (G) or a single-pass electrode (GS).

So you have a FCAW wire of 80,000 lb strength with tubular core good for welding in all positions that requires a shielding gas such as 75/25 CO2/Ar or 100%CO2 and is rated as a multiple pass filler.

Hope that clears things up.

Have a Great Day, Brent

By HgTX

Date 07-31-2009 15:54

Still not quite. G and GS are not used on top of the numeric designation to indicate multi- vs. single-pass electrodes. G and GS are used in place of 1 through 14 for cases where certain characteristics are not specified. AWS A5.20 describes them as "...electrodes that have usability characteristics not covered by any presently defined classification."

Get a copy of AWS A5.20 (or A 5.29 for low-alloy); it will show what is specified for what classification.

Hg

By Lawrence (*****)

Date 07-31-2009 16:23 Edited 07-31-2009 16:30

An example of the above explaination can be found in the home use style 110 v GMAW/FCAW units.. Hobart Handler, Harbor Frieght etc. style units.

The FCAW electrodes most commonly found in hardware stores on small spools for hobby use are *E71TGS*

They are all position (usually) self shielded electrodes that can be used for a single pass in all positions.

But the flux characteristics, polarity etc, *and gas shielding*. will be determined by the manufacturer...

So in essence two different vendor brands of E71TGS can have quite different operating characteristics.

Nonetheless, for hobby work I have found these TGS style electrodes to be pretty darned handy for light hobby use.

EDIT:
Here is a link to a post where Gregg Roberts cleared up my own misunderstanding (and bad advice) on this subject back in 2004
http://www.aws.org/cgi-bin/mwf/topic_show.pl?pid=24039;hl=e71tgs

By welderbrent (*****)

Date 07-31-2009 16:35

Hg, not to start a disagreement here, I, as it appears the OP, have wire right here in my shop designated just as he has stated it.

I believe Lawrence has actually cleared it up. I don't think it is a matter of proper AWS designation as much as how a particular manufacturer is labeling their product for home/hobby use. If you look over the entire box they will actually list the AWS system in small print somewhere on the label. But they call it out differently per their own product ID system.

I may be wrong about that, but I think that is why we have materials that are not quite 'PURE' to the AWS A5.20 specs.

I still think that for the most part it breaks down as I stated it.

Have a Great Day, Brent

By HgTX

Date 07-31-2009 16:50

The OP asked about "AWS Classification". That only means one thing--what AWS says it does. My answer is what AWS says. Anything else may be brand designation, convention, whatever--but it's not AWS classification. You said G and GS are suffixes that get put after the 1 through 14 ("additional suffix of a 'G' or 'GS' following the rest of your number") to indicate multi or single pass. That, again, is not per AWS classification.

If we're talking about something other than AWS classification, then maybe there are situations in which you're correct, but what you describe is not how the AWS classification works.

In simple terms, -G in the classification means go check what the manufacturer says about the product because the classification itself is generic and doesn't tell you much.

Hg

By cwi49cwe (*)

Date 09-20-2009 17:20

I agree with HgTX on the G-GS designation, I think what might be confusing the issue is that G an GS is being mis-placed with FCAW-G for flux-cored arc welding-"gas shielding" and FCAW-S for flux-cored arc welding-"self sheilding" ,,,,,,,,,,,,, refer to AWS Filler Metal Specification A5.20 and A5.29 ..........

By waccobird (****)

Date 07-31-2009 15:59

Brent wrote So you have a FCAW wire of 80,000 lb strength with tubular core good for welding in all positions that requires a shielding gas such as 75/25 CO2/Ar or 100%CO2 and is rated as a multiple pass filler
75/25 CO2/Ar or 100%CO2
should be 75% Ar-25% CO2, or 100% CO2

By welderbrent (*****)

Date 07-31-2009 16:26 Edited 07-31-2009 16:29

waccobird, WELCOME to the forum, and thank you for the catch. Got them reversed there. Good eye.

Thanks Lawrence for the additional info there. That was also why I miss answered somewhat in my first post on this, I was thinking of the letters on the end when buying some of these wires for 120v machines.

Have a Great Day, Brent

By waccobird (****)

Date 07-31-2009 16:29

that is what my wife says also but not as nice.

By waccobird (****)

Date 07-31-2009 16:28

Hobart says that the g means that the chemical composition is not specified in your clasification.
http://www.hobartbrothers.com/pdf/support/previews/HOBAWSClassificationPoster.jpg

By Mikeqc1 (****)

Date 07-31-2009 18:32

E =electrode
8 =min tensile
1 =any position
t= tubular
1 = gas
G = multi pass
MDK

By Shane Feder (****)

Date 08-01-2009 00:02

Hello all,
Some interesting answers but the only one who answered kenwelds question correctly is magodley.

The reasons for this confusion are that SFA 5.20 and SFA 5.29 have different meanings for the "G" and even in SFA 5.29 the "G" can be found in two different positions and means two different things.
Let's clarify SFA 5.20 first
Mandatory Classification Designators
E71T-G
"The designator is some number from 1 through 14 or the letter "G" with or without an "S" following.The "G" indicates that the external shielding, polarity, and impact properties are not specified.The "S" indicates that the electrode is suitable for a weld consisting of a single pass." (This does not mean that "G" is only multipass, it can also be single pass as well)

SFA 5.29 is the Specification for Low Alloy Steel Electrodes for Flux-Cored Arc Welding
Mandatory Classification Designators
E81TG-XX
"This designator will be some number:1, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 11, or the letter G. The G indicates that the slag system and shielding gas are not specified."

E81T1-G
"Designates the chemical composition of the deposited weld metal. The letter G indicates that the chemical composition is not specified."

Hope that clears everything up,
Regards,
Shane

By ssbn727 (*****)

Date 08-01-2009 06:34 Edited 08-01-2009 06:39

"Correctly" sounds somewhat like the word used by our President Obama: "Stupidly" ;) ;) ;) No offense there Shane... I just couldn't help myself... Must be the medicines I've been on lately!!! ;) ;) ;)

Btw, I believe most of the other participants - while only "halfway" correct, they nonetheless answered the question as well as Magodely did since he only got one part of it correct also. :) :) :)

If there was anyone that answered the question completely, comprehensively, thoroughly, and without any ambiguity, then I would have to say that you did - my friend from down under... Gou'day mate!!! :) :) :)

Respectfully,
Henry

By Shane Feder (****)

Date 08-01-2009 06:59

Hello Henry,
How is the health at the moment ? Hope you are not doing it too tough.

I actually thought all of the responses were wrong other than magodley, I was just trying to be polite and not say that.

The question was what does the G in E81T1-G stand for ?

It does not stand for gas shielded.
It does not stand for gasless.
It does not stand for multipass electrode.
G is not used in place of 1 to 14 where certain characteristics are not specified.

The letter G in E81T1-G indicates that the chemical composition (of the deposited weld metal) is not specified.

That appears to be the exact answer that magodley gave.

Time for me to knock off and sample a few beers.
Have a great weekend,
Shane

Cheers

By ssbn727 (*****)

Date 08-01-2009 08:37

I agree with you, and I was waiting for you to point out exactly why but, I guess I'll have to get technical here...

The difference between a "totally" correct answer in this post as opposed to a "halfway correct answer" which is equivalent to "almost" which never end up being correct, is a simple "misread" on the part of the person's attempting to answer the question in the correct manner...

What I'm getting at is simple... the placement of the letter "G" without the horizontal line (Punctuation mark.)... A dash is a punctuation mark. It is longer than a hyphen and is used differently. The most common versions of the dash are the en dash (–) and the em dash (—) that is located in between the letter, and the last number of the specific FCAW Electrode type when reading it, starting from left to right is the key to proper interpretation of what the letter "G" is representing and therefore, critical to observe upon attempting to give the correct answer of the question as it is typed originally in the first post of this thread.

So to sum it up simply, if one doesn't notice the en dash (-) placed in between the last numerical digit of the specific AWS FCAW classification type written by the original poster of this thread as in the case of: "E81T1-G" then one can easily misinterpret the meaning of this specific type of FCAW filler metal...

This is also another example why some of us in here request that we try our best in not only practicing proper spelling but also, proper grammer - err I mean grammar ;), and the proper use & application/interpretation of graphic keyboard symbols so that we minimize our own misinterpretations from time to time... Yeah Right Henry!!! sounds like wishful thinking on my part so, I'll stop blabbering right here!!! BWWWAAAAHHHH, HAH, HAH, HAH!!! :) :) :)

One thing I noticed is the fact that these new medicines I'm currently on are definitely disturbing my normal sleep pattern...
Hmmmmm... That's it - I'm done!!! ;)

Respectfully,
Henry

By Shane Feder (****)

Date 08-01-2009 10:30

G'day again Henry,
I think I've got you on this one mate. LOL !!
I stated that they were wrong but technically it was nothing to do with what you have noted.
Some of the answers given were just plain wrong, some were based on SFA 5.20 and in one case the explanation for G as generic sounded a lot like the meaning taken from SFA 5.5 (SMAW) where G means General.
E81T1-G is a Low Alloy wire and as such it is classified as SFA 5.29 (the G designation in this classification has a totally different meaning to G in SFA 5.20)
The only person who mentioned the correct classification and the correct meaning of G based on that classification was magodley.
All the best,
Shane

By ssbn727 (*****)

Date 08-01-2009 11:47

"I think I've got you on this one mate."

Shane,

First off, you never had me on anything pal... I was never in disagreement with your observation with respect to "Magodely's" correct interpretation of the originally posted FCAW electrode classification type so, let's be clear about that.

Also, as I stated in my last post: "The difference between a "totally" correct answer in this post as opposed to a "halfway correct answer" which is equivalent to "almost" which never ends up being correct, is a simple "misread" on the part of the person's attempting to answer the question in the correct manner..." simply meant that I was poking fun at my own previous post: "Btw, I believe most of the other participants - while only "halfway" correct, they nonetheless answered the question as well as Magodely did since he only got one part of it correct also. :-) :-) :-)"

In fact, the very next line just verifies the fact that you were in fact correct in stating that "Magodely" did interpret the FCAW electrode designation in the proper manner when I stated the following: "If there was anyone that answered the question completely, comprehensively, thoroughly, and without any ambiguity, then I would have to say that you did - my friend from down under... Gou'day mate!!! :-) :-) :-)"

So in summary, I believe there may have been some sort of misunderstanding within the intent of my last two posts on this topic which is something that tends to happen sometimes even when both individuals speak the same language, and yet interpret the use of the words differently. Oh well - I always remember that nobody's perfect including myself, or anyone else for that matter. ;)

Respectfully,
Henry

By 803056

Date 08-01-2009 14:48 Edited 08-01-2009 15:14

Shane, you made a good catch in noting the differences between A5.20 and A5.29.

I've attached the legends for A5.20 and A5.29 that might help.

The letter "G" can be listed in two locations when A5.29 is applicable.

Best regards - Al

A5XFCAWLegends1-Aug-09_Page_1.jpg (223k)

A5XFCAWLegends1-Aug-09_Page_2.jpg (316k)

By ssbn727 (*****)

Date 09-21-2009 00:49

Hi Al!

This is what Shane posted:

"The reasons for this confusion are that SFA 5.20 and SFA 5.29 have different meanings for the "G" and even in SFA 5.29 the "G" can be found in two different positions and means two different things.
Let's clarify SFA 5.20 first
Mandatory Classification Designators
E71T-G
"The designator is some number from 1 through 14 or the letter "G" with or without an "S" following.The "G" indicates that the external shielding, polarity, and impact properties are not specified.The "S" indicates that the electrode is suitable for a weld consisting of a single pass." (This does not mean that "G" is only multipass, it can also be single pass as well)

SFA 5.29 is the Specification for Low Alloy Steel Electrodes for Flux-Cored Arc Welding
Mandatory Classification Designators"

There's more in Shane's OP (Original Post) but, I ended it there because it's important to note his reference documentation to "SFA 5.29"

"SFA 5.29" is not AWS A5.29 even though it probably is the same word for word definition of AWS A 5.29... So technically since the original poster mentioned "AWS" as opposed to "ASME" then, Shane's version of describing the correct answer is technically incorrect even though he has the correct interpretation for the letter abbreviation as found in AWS A5.29.

In fact, the only one who got it absolutely correct was indeed "magodley" after all is said and recorded. In other words, the letter "G" at the end of the AWS FCAW Electrode classification: E-81T1-G indicates that the chemical composition of the deposited weld metal is not specified...

There is no "E81T1G" shown by the OP Folks!!! It's clear that the OP (Original Poster) by Kenweld wrote "E81T1-G." This is why it is so important to be precise is diction when it comes to using proper alfa/numerical/symbols in order to properly interpret them as well as to refer to the correct document references!!! :) :) :)

I hope this ends any further debate on this thread because after all, it's been beaten more than an old persian rug from the thirteenth century already for cryin out loud!!! :) :) :)

Respectfully,
Henry

dilbert-20061.12.06-21.20.21Custom.jpg (7k)

By Shane Feder (****)

Date 08-01-2009 16:33

Henry,
I am sorry if you misconstrued my response.
We may speak the same language but the way we speak it may differ greatly between countries.
My opening line ended in mate which in my country is the equivalent of a good friend. After that I put LOL ! to show that it was a light hearted jibe at someone I consider as a friend.
I will try to stick purely to technical responses in the future,
Regards,
Shane

By ssbn727 (*****)

Date 08-01-2009 17:59

Hey Shane! I consider you a good friend also!!!:) :) :)

I consider it as we say here in the states: "Water under the bridge" mate! ;) :) :) How do they say it again "down under?" Is it: "Nara-worry mate?" Now I don't know if I spelled or attempted to "pronounce" it via writing it out the way it's supposed "sound" like when I read it but heck, that's as close as I can get - pal. :)

Anywho, Al's post clarifies everything we need to be informed of (Thanks Al! :)) so, I'm gonna take a nap after changing the "tranny" fluid & filter in my vehicle...

Have good one, and one for me since I can no longer enjoy the liquid "spirits" "Y Dios te bendigas hermano!!!" :) :) :)
Translation: "May God bless you brother!!!" :) :) :)

Respectfully,
Henry

By Shane Feder (****)

Date 08-02-2009 01:25

No worries mate,
Best wishes to you too,
Cheers,
Shane

By welderbrent (*****)

Date 08-02-2009 03:17

OKAY, I for one just learned a great deal. Thank you all for your time to educate the rest of us.

Hg, I have been out of touch a couple of days, I apologize for a somewhat shortness and even stubbornness in my last response to you.

To Al, Shane, & Henry, thank you for taking the time to clear up the differences between all the usages of the 'G' suffix according to it's usages, location, and other details. With the last post I had been involved in with Hg I had begun to notice several very confusing (to me) differences. I had started looking up the info in most of the sources cited by each of you but had been too busy to complete the job.

Thank you for clearing up confusion that I was to blame for. I did not put all the pieces together correctly on the OP's request and the proper answer. I hope others have benefited from your wisdom as I have.

I hope men like you never stop contributing to this forum. We need your resources.

Have a Great Day, Brent

By Shane Feder (****)

Date 08-02-2009 11:52

Brent,
I have gained a huge amount of knowledge and assistance from this forum over the years and it is my duty to try and repay that help by passing on any knowledge/experience I have attained over my career.
Glad I could have helped,
Regards,
Shane

By HgTX

Date 08-03-2009 16:46

Interesting. E8 vs. E7 is what puts us in A5.29 instead of A5.20. I missed that part. I usually think of G as unspecified chemistry, but in 5.20 that's not what it means. I should have gone on to look at A5.29; would have found the second G (after the -).

Hg