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Up Topic American Welding Society Services / Certifications / one step closer to CWI
- - By scrappywelds (***) Date 08-05-2009 22:35
Today I got my level 1 qualification for PT, and tommarrow I start my VT level 1 training. Might not sound like alot to some guys on here, but it is a big stepping stone conquered today I think. Hopefully, tommarrow will be an informational day that I can apply toward my CWI goal of getting my certificaction next year. I have been welding for 11 years now, I'm ready to step up to the next level.
Parent - - By fbrieden (***) Date 08-05-2009 23:33
We ALL started somewhere!
Parent - By Mikeqc1 (****) Date 08-06-2009 02:07
With no defined finish line in sight.
MDK
Parent - - By Joseph P. Kane (****) Date 08-06-2009 20:38 Edited 08-06-2009 20:43
Scrappywelds

Have you started to study various codes yet?

I advise you to buy the WIT Handbook, the WIT Workbook, the Definitions Book, the Welding Symbols Book, the CM-94, so you own them before the course and the test.

I advise you to start reading the Welding Symbols book and the Definitions Book over and over again, (Twenty pages each every day.) from now until the test.

Read the WIT handbook and test yourself at the end of each chapter with test questions from the WIT Workbook.  LIMIT YOURSELF TO 45 SECONDS PER QUESTION!  When you finish the timed test, look up the correct answer in the text of that chapter.  (Be sure to do at least one chapter each week.) When you have read through the whole book, do it over and over again.

Read one chapter of each of the code books that you can afford, and cross reference each subject, so you look up material in that chapter and read what is said about it in each other chapter.  In D1.1, read each paragraph, and look up each significant word in the index, then read each paragraph that the index lists under that word.  Look up and read the Commentary for each paragraph.

Joe Kane
Parent - - By scrappywelds (***) Date 08-06-2009 21:44 Edited 08-06-2009 21:47
Thank you for the tip. I borrowed my CWI API 1104 20th edition for the practice exam on the Son Set Consultants on line training course, which is the week long seminar broken down into sections for $25 a class. You buy the class traing untill you have your CWI, I will buy one a week untill I get them all, and I will only attend the seminar after I score 100% mastery scores in all sections. I am going to pass this exam. My VT training I had today did go well, I comprehended all of the information today. Tommarrow I actually be preforming the hands on test using the test gages, which are the CWI practical tests sample, which is really going to help for the exam I think. Yes we had a condensed versrsions of the codes today.
Parent - - By Daniel Pendell Date 08-07-2009 13:02
I agree.  You will find that the CWI class is almost usless without any prior knowledge.  It's good to have goals.
I was disappointed when I took the class.  They gave you lots of review, but no code book training.  Their code book training was "use the index".  I was amazed at this.  The AWS doesn't want every Tom, Dick and Harry to be a CWI so they purposely make it hard to pass.  But, before going in I assumed that the training would help.  I was wrong.
They took extensive time teaching us about Oxyacetylene Welding, GMAW, GTAW and so on and I admit there was some of that on the test.  Part B is a crock.  You must get a handle on this before taking the test.  Measuring welds, defects and so on. I took it in Ohio.  Nearly every person that I talked to failed the test.  It's an expensive
undertaking, especially if you are going to pay for it yourself.  It sound like you are well on your way.
If you have questions just ask.
dan   
Parent - - By Joseph P. Kane (****) Date 08-07-2009 17:00 Edited 08-07-2009 17:10
Daniel

I am dismayed to read your posts about the CWI Exam and your experience at the Hobart CWI training course. You are the first person I have ever heard say what you did about this course.  I sure would like to speak to the "several people" you spoke to who failed this test after taking the same classes you did.  I do not believe you are telling their side of the story!!!!

I take issue with your contention that "AWS doesn't want every Tom, Dick and Harry to be a CWI so they purposely make it hard to pass..."  Almost half of the Society Membership is made up of CWIs!?!?!  I can tell you that the AWS does NOT want unqualified persons to be CWIs.  Your statement sounds like sour grapes to me!

In another post you said that you taught various welding processes in some school???  Do you really, really have the necessary background and experience with a code to even qualify to take the CWI Exam?  Did you really really weld to a code, or were you just a general type welder????

You said; 'Part B is a crock.  You must get a handle on this before taking the test.  Measuring welds, defects and so on."  Why is measuring weld defects "crock"?!?!?!  Don't you think that a person taking a National Examination to perform weld inspection should have to demonstrate their competency to use the tools and perform a proper evaluation of a weld?  Do you think that this is all you will do as a practicing CWI?

If you were a teacher of welding subjects, did you make your course and test so simple that no one would fail your course????  If you look at the AWS B5.1 "Qualification document", you will see that many subjects listed in that document are not covered on the CWI examination that you took.  The CWI Exam is not that comprehensive, so, your contention that "...AWS doesn't want every Tom, Dick and Harry to be a CWI so they purposely make it hard to pass..." is really specious.  It is more likely that you did not have the level of knowledge and the required experience necessary to pass this test or even be a CWI if you accidently happened to  pass the examination. 

The AWS Certification Committee, of which I am a Member, and the "Test Bank" subcommittee, do review the examination results on a continuing basis and reviews the test questions (Item Analysis) on a regular basis.  The program is designed to weed out as many of the obviously incompetent applicants as possible, yet qualify all persons who can demonstrate the competency required to comply with AWS B5.1.  The Committee uses various analytical techniques that are common to most other educational and testing programs around the world.  

The AWS is a Not For Profit organization, (Not a Non-Profit organization), which tries to serve the welding industry and the general public interest.  There are no stock dividends for the staff and the board members because you (and any number of others) have to retake the examination after failure.  The money AWS makes from the examinations and seminars go to support the other activities of the Society and the "Administrative Costs of Operation" of the Society.   The Certification Committee does not get paid anything for it's work.  All members are volunteers, who pay their own travel, hotel, meals and office expenses.  The Qualification Committee Members who say what the required body of knowledge subjects will be, are also total volunteers.  The only satisfaction the various committee members get out of anybody failing the exam, is the knowledge that their hard work prevented some "INCOMPETENT" from staining and polluting the profession.

Joseph P. Kane
Parent - - By jrw159 (*****) Date 08-07-2009 18:02
In addition, here are the most common reasons someone will have difficulty with the test.

#1: The test IS difficult. It is not supposed to be easy.

#2: People doubt and question the information given in the prep course.

#3: Poor test taking abilities.

#4: Not dedicated to study time. They give homework at the course. If you do not do it and spend your time at the beer joint after class, you may very well have problems with the test.

#5: Limited welding experience. Due to the wording AWS uses, one can qualify to take the test and never have welded a bead. This is a little exaggerated, but if you were the janitor in a welding shop for 5 years, you could probably word it in a way so as to qualify to take the test.

#6: The person thinks they already know it all. This is a big downfall. If you already know it all you don't need the course now do you.

#7: Not following all the footnotes and references to insure the correct answer.

#8: They do not pay attention in class. Maybe an extension of #6?

#9: They lack confidence in themselves.

Now if one answers themselves HONESTLY and falls into one or more of these, especially the big ones like #2, #3, #4, #5, #6, and #8 you most definitely will have problems on test day.

Now I know that Hobart has a 60% to 80% pass rate even with the test being more difficult than it used to be.

Just food for thought.

jrw159
Parent - - By kipman (***) Date 08-07-2009 18:16
John,
I would add another - limited inspection experience.  Many welders I have known have had trouble with the test because their background did not provide them with any knowledge of NDT, destructive testing, etc.  Of course, then generally they aggravated the situation as you note in your #3, 4, 6, and 8.
Mankenberg
Parent - - By jwright650 (*****) Date 08-07-2009 19:07
"limited inspection experience"-kip

I noticed a few in the same class with me(norfolk, va /2000-nothing to do with Hobart) had problems using a filletweld gage. This is a very basic tool...kind of a go,no-go tool, yet nowhere within the class did the instructor show anyone the correct way to use it, so some inspection knowledge beforehand was required. These guys happened to be in my group of study partners, so I was able to help them out. The majority of the hands-on exam was dealing with these basic tools.
Parent - By Mikeqc1 (****) Date 08-07-2009 22:10
These people should know better than to go into anything without some serious preparation and experience.
I had the opposite experience at the training seminar…..
I took the seminar and I was puzzled that we were spending so much time on how to read Verniers,  and gages, studying (not reviewing) Basic welding knowledge and listening to useless stories from the instructor.
Although None of that mattered due to preparation.
So I don’t disagree that a good amount of inspection experience is a major part of passing this or any test.
And if a person is testing to be a certified welding inspector and is going for the test without the knowledge of how to use welding gages that tells me he is either a welder who has never critiqued his own welds, or  he is the janitor/ number 12 inspector from the BVD factory trying to branch out into unknown waters.
I’m not sure that I would want him working for me or anyone else.
You cant blame the training course for a failure, and you cant sue a college because they didn’t find you a job.
MDK
Parent - By jrw159 (*****) Date 08-07-2009 20:51
Very true. :-)

jrw159
Parent - By paul prill (*) Date 08-25-2009 12:52
The test is difficult because real life is difficult!
Parent - By robgreg1978 (**) Date 08-07-2009 23:42
I just took the cwi exam and found out a couple of days ago i passed. That was a hard test. Now for what I got on hear for, Aws is a not for profit group. And from what I was told, not what i read they profited 8,000,000 dollars in 2008. If that is true seems like they could cut us alittle slack on the cost of exams and membership. I could be wrong, ( i was wrong once before). Just wandering???
Parent - By jwright650 (*****) Date 08-07-2009 17:05
"You are the first person I have ever heard say what you did about this course." -Joe Kane

Me too. Never heard any such stories about "that" class.....I've heard quite the opposite from everyone who attended there.
Parent - - By js55 (*****) Date 08-07-2009 19:20 Edited 08-07-2009 19:23
"The AWS doesn't want every Tom, Dick and Harry to be a CWI so they purposely make it hard to pass."

Actually, I would hope this is true.
My experience is there are far too many of the TD&H's and not enough Kips, and Johns, and Jon's, and Al's, and Geralds, and Joe's.
Parent - - By 3.2 Inspector (***) Date 08-07-2009 20:30
I think you forgot one.
Parent - By scrappywelds (***) Date 08-07-2009 21:36
I passed for the level 1 VT, after i get my 140 hrs. of documented VT examinnations, I get my level 2 for VT and if 35 hrs. are actually documented PT I get my level 2 in PT. It was actually very good training, we had to use all the same test sapmles the AWS CWI exam uses. We had to evaluate welder test coupons to ASME section IX, evaluate fillet welds and butt welds to different codes ( ASME B31.1 , B31.3 , Section 1 , Section 8 , and AWS D1.1) for acceptance or rejection, demenstrate how to use hi-lo gages for alignment to code, a open book written test, a closed book written test, and when asked a question(s) about the code(s) we had to demonstrate we can look up the information and prove where we found the information asked. I actually had a good time, learned new things, and the 20 hrs of training goes toward my 140 hrs needed.
Parent - - By Arctic 510 (**) Date 08-08-2009 02:19
The CWI prep course is just that, a prep course.  It should be mostly review for a qualified individual, not a two week shake and bake inspector course.  No one should ever be taking this course "cold".  Just my opinion though.

I am glad to hear that not every Tom, Dick, or Harry can pass.  I don't want to drive my kids under or on bridges that were built under a TD&H's inspection.  Or someone who thinks knowing how to use inspection tools to evaluate welds is a crock. ;-)  What is someone doing testing to any code he/she isn't intimate with?  If the test eliminates those looking to pass just on the course alone, outstanding. 

Mr. Kane, maybe the comittee could add another exam part, the "just eyeball 'er" section.  That would eliminate using tools. ;-)

My (rapidly depreciating in value) 2 cents.
Parent - - By Joseph P. Kane (****) Date 08-10-2009 18:21
Arctic 510

Good Idea.  I will talk to Al Moore.  He needs to address the lack of qualified welding inspection in the "Farm Code"   (Gee, Last week I couldent even speel inspocteer, and now I are one!)

Joe Kane
Parent - - By 803056 (*****) Date 08-10-2009 23:12 Edited 08-11-2009 02:21
As an instructor, one of the main problems I see is that some of the candidates have a difficult time reading and understanding what they just read. The problem can be a real stumbling block when reading the code, be it AWS, ASME, or API. The ability to pick out key words in a question or code clause is an important skill that can be learned and mastered with time and practice. Those skills are not learned in any 40, 80, or 120 hour inspection course. Those skills are learned while we were in school, high school or trade school or even college.

A person that has a difficult time with reading and comprehension is going to struggle as an inspector. Inspection involves more than looking at a weld and pronouncing it good or bad. I believe most inspectors that have been in industry will attest to the importance of being able to read with comprehension (not apprehension) and the ability to write a sentence that makes sense.

The vast majority of the CWI examination centers on the candidate's ability to read with comprehension. Sitting in a class for a week or two may help individuals better understand the information presented in the texts, but when the candidate enters the examination center, he/she is on their own.

The importance or reading and writing aren’t limited to just the AWS CWI courses and examinations. Inspection courses and certification programs offered by organizations like ASNT, API, etc. also require the candidate to read and comprehend the questions in order to answer them appropriately. Many of the examination questions evaluate the candidate's familiarity with the terminology that is appropriate for the subject for which certification is sought. Different code bodies use different "languages" and it is imperative that the candidate know the proper terminology if they expect to answer the questions correctly.

We see the use of incorrect terminology in some of the threads that appear in queries to the Forum. While some of the terminology we see here in the forum may seem "smart" to a few, it is usually because the proper terminology isn't known to the writer. The use of proper terminology is essential to good communication. How many times does a response to an inquiry begin with the question, "What are you trying to ask us?", because some colloquial term is used in the inquiry?

One purpose of any examination is to ensure the candidate knows the language of the discipline being studied. Which of the following terms are correct: Roll over or overlap, lack of fusion or incomplete fusion, pin hole or porosity, Undercut or material thinning due to the manufacturing process? The right answer is dependent on the industry and the applicable code.

Best regards – Al
Parent - - By fbrieden (***) Date 08-11-2009 03:03
As a fellow instructor, I could not have said it any better than you!
Parent - - By 803056 (*****) Date 08-11-2009 03:42
I'm somewhat saddened that you see a similar problem.

I have to be honest and say that English was a real problem for this country bumpkin. I lost a college scholarship because my grades in English pulled my grade point average into the cellar. My advisor asked me, “How can you do well in math, science, and your other courses and barely pass English? I don’t want you to take another English course until your last semester before graduation!”

Little did he know at that time that graduation wouldn’t take place for another twenty years!

All through high school and college I struggled with English. It was not my favorite class and the fact that I would spend so much of my time engaged in writing reports, etc. was the last thing I thought I would ever be doing.

By the way, thanks for the compliment.

Best regards – Al
Parent - By jrw159 (*****) Date 08-11-2009 12:16
Al,
  That is pretty ironic. :-) I must say, one would have a hard time today telling that it was one of your weak points. Of course that's coming from a fellow "country bumpkin" LOL.

jrw159
Parent - - By johnnyh (***) Date 08-11-2009 21:27
You definitely have it down now.
Parent - - By 803056 (*****) Date 08-11-2009 21:48
Still practicing!

Al
Parent - By ssbn727 (*****) Date 08-24-2009 21:20
For sure Dude!!!

Respectfully,
Henry
Parent - - By Len Andersen (***) Date 10-01-2009 19:11
AWS'ers,
  Wish you well! Been there! 1967 cooking to learn overhead welding in Fort Belvoir Virginia Private Len Andersen was on his way. All I might add is evening classes is reliable report to be more entertaining than TV.
  I hope this is helpful.
                        Sincerely
                               Len Andersen BSChE CWI
                                    914-237-7689
                                        212-839-6599
                                          212-839-4042 FAX

                       www.lenandersen.com

              POB 1529 / NYC 10116 ( $990 per year Caller Box GPO NYC )
                             914-237-7689 Home
Parent - By ssbn727 (*****) Date 10-01-2009 20:30
Hey Len!

Do you know Charles Welch???

BTW, If you are a CWI, then you are an AWS'er CAPECHE???

Respectfully,
Henry
Up Topic American Welding Society Services / Certifications / one step closer to CWI

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