Daniel
I am dismayed to read your posts about the CWI Exam and your experience at the Hobart CWI training course. You are the first person I have ever heard say what you did about this course. I sure would like to speak to the "several people" you spoke to who failed this test after taking the same classes you did. I do not believe you are telling their side of the story!!!!
I take issue with your contention that "AWS doesn't want every Tom, Dick and Harry to be a CWI so they purposely make it hard to pass..." Almost half of the Society Membership is made up of CWIs!?!?! I can tell you that the AWS does NOT want unqualified persons to be CWIs. Your statement sounds like sour grapes to me!
In another post you said that you taught various welding processes in some school??? Do you really, really have the necessary background and experience with a code to even qualify to take the CWI Exam? Did you really really weld to a code, or were you just a general type welder????
You said; 'Part B is a crock. You must get a handle on this before taking the test. Measuring welds, defects and so on." Why is measuring weld defects "crock"?!?!?! Don't you think that a person taking a National Examination to perform weld inspection should have to demonstrate their competency to use the tools and perform a proper evaluation of a weld? Do you think that this is all you will do as a practicing CWI?
If you were a teacher of welding subjects, did you make your course and test so simple that no one would fail your course???? If you look at the AWS B5.1 "Qualification document", you will see that many subjects listed in that document are not covered on the CWI examination that you took. The CWI Exam is not that comprehensive, so, your contention that "...AWS doesn't want every Tom, Dick and Harry to be a CWI so they purposely make it hard to pass..." is really specious. It is more likely that you did not have the level of knowledge and the required experience necessary to pass this test or even be a CWI if you accidently happened to pass the examination.
The AWS Certification Committee, of which I am a Member, and the "Test Bank" subcommittee, do review the examination results on a continuing basis and reviews the test questions (Item Analysis) on a regular basis. The program is designed to weed out as many of the obviously incompetent applicants as possible, yet qualify all persons who can demonstrate the competency required to comply with AWS B5.1. The Committee uses various analytical techniques that are common to most other educational and testing programs around the world.
The AWS is a Not For Profit organization, (Not a Non-Profit organization), which tries to serve the welding industry and the general public interest. There are no stock dividends for the staff and the board members because you (and any number of others) have to retake the examination after failure. The money AWS makes from the examinations and seminars go to support the other activities of the Society and the "Administrative Costs of Operation" of the Society. The Certification Committee does not get paid anything for it's work. All members are volunteers, who pay their own travel, hotel, meals and office expenses. The Qualification Committee Members who say what the required body of knowledge subjects will be, are also total volunteers. The only satisfaction the various committee members get out of anybody failing the exam, is the knowledge that their hard work prevented some "INCOMPETENT" from staining and polluting the profession.
Joseph P. Kane
In addition, here are the most common reasons someone will have difficulty with the test.
#1: The test IS difficult. It is not supposed to be easy.
#2: People doubt and question the information given in the prep course.
#3: Poor test taking abilities.
#4: Not dedicated to study time. They give homework at the course. If you do not do it and spend your time at the beer joint after class, you may very well have problems with the test.
#5: Limited welding experience. Due to the wording AWS uses, one can qualify to take the test and never have welded a bead. This is a little exaggerated, but if you were the janitor in a welding shop for 5 years, you could probably word it in a way so as to qualify to take the test.
#6: The person thinks they already know it all. This is a big downfall. If you already know it all you don't need the course now do you.
#7: Not following all the footnotes and references to insure the correct answer.
#8: They do not pay attention in class. Maybe an extension of #6?
#9: They lack confidence in themselves.
Now if one answers themselves HONESTLY and falls into one or more of these, especially the big ones like #2, #3, #4, #5, #6, and #8 you most definitely will have problems on test day.
Now I know that Hobart has a 60% to 80% pass rate even with the test being more difficult than it used to be.
Just food for thought.
jrw159
John,
I would add another - limited inspection experience. Many welders I have known have had trouble with the test because their background did not provide them with any knowledge of NDT, destructive testing, etc. Of course, then generally they aggravated the situation as you note in your #3, 4, 6, and 8.
Mankenberg
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"limited inspection experience"-kip
I noticed a few in the same class with me(norfolk, va /2000-nothing to do with Hobart) had problems using a filletweld gage. This is a very basic tool...kind of a go,no-go tool, yet nowhere within the class did the instructor show anyone the correct way to use it, so some inspection knowledge beforehand was required. These guys happened to be in my group of study partners, so I was able to help them out. The majority of the hands-on exam was dealing with these basic tools.
These people should know better than to go into anything without some serious preparation and experience.
I had the opposite experience at the training seminar…..
I took the seminar and I was puzzled that we were spending so much time on how to read Verniers, and gages, studying (not reviewing) Basic welding knowledge and listening to useless stories from the instructor.
Although None of that mattered due to preparation.
So I don’t disagree that a good amount of inspection experience is a major part of passing this or any test.
And if a person is testing to be a certified welding inspector and is going for the test without the knowledge of how to use welding gages that tells me he is either a welder who has never critiqued his own welds, or he is the janitor/ number 12 inspector from the BVD factory trying to branch out into unknown waters.
I’m not sure that I would want him working for me or anyone else.
You cant blame the training course for a failure, and you cant sue a college because they didn’t find you a job.
MDK
The test is difficult because real life is difficult!
I just took the cwi exam and found out a couple of days ago i passed. That was a hard test. Now for what I got on hear for, Aws is a not for profit group. And from what I was told, not what i read they profited 8,000,000 dollars in 2008. If that is true seems like they could cut us alittle slack on the cost of exams and membership. I could be wrong, ( i was wrong once before). Just wandering???
"The AWS doesn't want every Tom, Dick and Harry to be a CWI so they purposely make it hard to pass."
Actually, I would hope this is true.
My experience is there are far too many of the TD&H's and not enough Kips, and Johns, and Jon's, and Al's, and Geralds, and Joe's.
The CWI prep course is just that, a prep course. It should be mostly review for a qualified individual, not a two week shake and bake inspector course. No one should ever be taking this course "cold". Just my opinion though.
I am glad to hear that not every Tom, Dick, or Harry can pass. I don't want to drive my kids under or on bridges that were built under a TD&H's inspection. Or someone who thinks knowing how to use inspection tools to evaluate welds is a crock. ;-) What is someone doing testing to any code he/she isn't intimate with? If the test eliminates those looking to pass just on the course alone, outstanding.
Mr. Kane, maybe the comittee could add another exam part, the "just eyeball 'er" section. That would eliminate using tools. ;-)
My (rapidly depreciating in value) 2 cents.