Green Welding? What does it mean...

By Stephan (***)

Date 08-28-2009 13:53

Jeff,

in secret, I had expected this from you! ;-)

Brilliant and short and sweet! :-)

By the way. According to the newest generation of GE windmills, wait... doesn't this stand for General Electric , and wait... isn't this one of the greatest companies in the world? And wait... isn't this company coming from the US of America? :-):-):-)

Anyway, according to their newest windmill generation you would need - as far as I had calculated correctly - 416.667, let's say 417 windmills to match a 1.5 GW nuke. At least as long the wind blows - see also my response to Dave.

Could we agree saying: "Good welding jobs + intact environment = happy families!?" :-)

Thanks Jeff!

Stephan

By js55

Date 08-28-2009 15:34

Stephen,
In secret??? :)
Secrets out!!! :)

I am all for wind power. I think it is most definately a technology for our future, as I do geothermal, and solar (worked in all three), and a variety of other resources. I just don't support them as a replacement for fossil and nuke.

By Stephan (***)

Date 08-28-2009 15:59

Jeff!

That's what I like! :-)

Thank you, Sir!

By ssbn727 (*****)

Date 08-28-2009 17:47 Edited 08-28-2009 17:58

It's more like 225, and 250 tops (being very conservative because after all, the nukes now aren't gonna be going full output either) if the wind generators are of the 7+ MW class each Jeff.;) GE is already priming to take over literally all of the domestic capacity with some units that'll knock the socks off of what's currently available haere from Europe.. And what people don't realize here is the Spain and Not Germany is the leading country with respect to wind power installations and technology so, let's not give too much credit to Germany because before Wind became so vogue in Europe and Asia, only a handful of countries were even close to persuing the viability of this form of renewable energy, and Spain was leading the way in fact, they were the first producer of this technology to hit the US shores and establish domestic manufacturing capacity!!! Gamesa of Spain, located in the Philadelphia are has been operating there for years now!!! ;) "Dig deeper to get ALL of the facts!!! Not just the stuff that's floating around. ;)"
It's coming!!! :) :) :)

Respectfully,
Henry

By js55

Date 08-28-2009 18:13 Edited 08-28-2009 18:46

Henry,
Is that 7 MW's regardless of the wind speed?

I got an idea. Lets mount the wind turbines over Washington and let the hot air power the globe.
In fact, we could construct a wind/boiler combined cycle plant wherein the hot air once it activates the wind turbine is routed to a conventional boiler to heat water to turn a big steamer.

By Stephan (***)

Date 08-28-2009 19:24 Edited 08-28-2009 19:39

Jeff,

please read my response to Henry!

Would you mean it were feasible to transmit all the hot air being produced in Berlin + Brussels to this wind/boiler combined cycle plant?

I guess this would double or even triple the energy-output instantaneously!

I am sure, with your idea you will be a top candiate to be granted with the alternative Nobel Prize. :-)

Forgive me, I didn't want to abuse this thread, but I simply couldn't resist!

EDIT: LOOK OUT! I'll embed a link to a picture of one of our most appreciated steam generators: http://lafiaca.com/wp-content/angelamerkel.jpg

By js55

Date 08-28-2009 19:56

LMAO!!!!!!
And the bonus of it all is that if we tap into this unutilized political energy source we will at the same time increase entropy in those very same locations.
I think we could all use a little entropy in Washington, Berlin, Brussels, Paris, etc.

By Stephan (***)

Date 08-29-2009 13:04

Jeff!

"...I think we could all use a little entropy in Washington, Berlin, Brussels, Paris, etc."

And once again you hit the nail! :-)

By ssbn727 (*****)

Date 08-29-2009 04:24 Edited 08-31-2009 05:17

Hi Jeff, and anyone else curious to know what my response will be to Jeff's query!!! ;) :) :)

Get a load of this one!!! Then enjoy yourself by reading the comments below... Gee! Some of these folks read as being very familiar (Scratching Head???) hmmmm - nah, it couldn't be - could it??? ;) ;) :)

http://www.metaefficient.com/news/new-record-worlds-largest-wind-turbine-7-megawatts.html

This is one Huge Blade mad in one complete cast by Siemens AG:

http://w1.siemens.com/press/en/pp_pg/2007/sopg200703-02.htm

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Enercon

http://www.enercon.de/en/_home.htm

http://www.enercon.de/www/en/windblatt.nsf/vwAnzeige/7FF702CD609CC526C1257061003DE04E/$FILE/gb_4-05_web.pdf

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LQxp6QTjgJg

http://www.renewableenergyworld.com/rea/news/article/2008/06/markbygden-enercon-to-erect-3-gw-wind-farm-in-sweden-52877

http://www.3degreesinc.com/knowledge/facilities_enercon_wind/

Here's a list one may want look into in order to find out just how serious this form of renewable alternative energy is digging it's roots into the domestic market:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_wind_turbine_manufacturers

Top 10 wind turbine manufacturers by megawatts installed worldwide in 2007:

   1. Vestas (Denmark) 4,500 MW
   2. GE Energy (United States) 3,300 MW
   3. Gamesa (Spain) 3,050 MW
   4. Enercon (Germany) 2,700 MW
   5. Suzlon (India) 2,000 MW
   6. Siemens (Denmark / Germany) 1,400 MW
   7. Acciona (Spain) 870 MW
   8. Goldwind (China - PRC) 830 MW
   9. Nordex (Germany) 670 MW
10. Sinovel (China - PRC) 670 MW

Leading Manufacturers in the U.S. Market

As of the end of 2008, the United States had 25.1 GW (25,100 MW) of wind energy capacity, surpassing Germany to become the world's leading wind energy market. Installed capacity increased by 50% in the U.S. in 2008, compared to a 28.8% world average growth rate.

Key Players in the U.S. Wind Industry

   1. GE Energy
   2. Vestas
   3. Siemens
   4. Gamesa
   5. Mitsubishi Heavy Industries
   6. Suzlon
   7. Clipper Windpower
   8. Nordex

THIS FOR REAL FOLKS!!! GET USED TO IT!!! :) :) :)

Jeff, I can see that you need to be briefed in matters regarding the wind - well, maybe not so much in how capable you in producing the wind yet, I'll make it short and sweet for you... Here are some links so that you can get yourself up to speed on Wind power... The kind that generates electricity!!! ;) So, at the risk of not being so long - winded (Hah! ;) How Ironic!!!;) ;) ;) ) The largest can generate 6,150KW continuously without any strain on the equipment whatsoever... You know, like when a Nuke operates, it never operates at peak capacity continuously, (1500MW doesn't mean it's putting out 1500MW Continuously either!!!) and neither will the current most powerful output wind turbine for that matter!!!

However and this is pretty significant... The Wind turbine I'm referring to is guaranteed by the manufacturer to continuously produce 6,150KW!!! " Yeah but Henry, what if there's not enough wind to achieve this??? Well, my answer as well as their answer (The Manufacturer!) is clear and simple... It is the responsibility of the purchaser to strategically install these turnkey packages at locations where there is present enough of the average minimal mean wind speed in order for these turbine to produce as guaranteed!!!

So the onus is on the purchaser which really shouldn't be a problem to find these locations since the US is the "Saudi Arabia" of continuous wind speeds - more than capable, and in so much abundance that it's not even an issue to come up with anything close to a worthy claim that contradicts this reality!!! ;) All of the states are already mapped and have been so for wind speeds since the 1930's, and have been consistently updated ever since by the USGIS (United States Geological Information? Service)!!! :) :) :)

So the real problem is not so much whether or not there is sufficient wind speeds on a continuous basis to keep these "monsters" going... No, No, the real problems are the present limitations of scale we currently face, meaning, we currently cannot make these "Monsters" big enough or fast enough at our present pace, and we currently do not have, and here comes the key word here; "existing" transmission grid capacity to transmit all of this renewable energy!!!

I have a very efficient combination of answers based on existing technologies using off the shelf components for use in designing, manufacturing and installing these very innovative as well as efficient systems os that we can solve these so-called "insurmountable" problems!!! I mean, if we were able to overtake the former Soviet Union in the race to the Moon by rallying up our technological prowess in innovation by applying such paractical solutions that were baffling the Soviets in their own quest to beat us to the Moon, then we as a NATION!!!

We could easily do the same here with the right combination of renewable energy solutions that could realistically become only a bridge building step to the ultimate resource of infinite energy production, where more is created exponentially than what is put in - on such a massive scale that the only equivalent to this type of energy production would be coming from a star!!! That's right Jeff!!! FUSION!!! You know what the word means, don't you??? (poking fun at you:) :) :) )

We are much closer to achieving a fully functional commercially viable fusion based energy production facility that would both generate electricity, and create vast amounts of hydrogen - the fuel of the not so distant future, than anyone would have ever imagined some ten years ago... And which is pretty much the amount of progress that so far occurred from a combination of major experimental fusion power projects around the world has achieved beginning some twenty years ago, and has been been leaked out to the public for consumption without revealing just how much these projects have actually progressed which is more than most of us are willing to accept realistically!!!

The ITER project in Europe... The National Ignition Experimental Laboratory at our own Sandia National Labs are two very different paths that have been undertaken in order to cut down the time frames necessary in order to fulfill the ultimate goal in designing, constructing, and commissioning to scale actual working models of Fusion Energy producing power generating stations which as a byproduct, will also produce unlimited amounts of water and when separated, infinite amounts of hydrogen fuel as well as oxygen - the "elixir" of life as we know it itself!!! ;) That's why I would like to predict a very conservative commissioning date of the year 2050 to represent the milestone year we as a species successfully achieved unlimited energy resources to produce on a commercial basis!!! Most of the so-called experts are predicting the monumental achievement I just described up to ten years before my own prediction - Go figure huh??? So, it's not a matter of if it's going to happen... Realistically, it's only a matter of WHEN!!! ;)

"But Henry, how are they going to get all of that generated electricity distributed efficiently across such huge expanses of land where if conventional means were to be applied, there would be in minimum loss of at least 50 to 60% by the time it reaches the intended end users either in the suburbs or in the cities themselves???"

My response is that it's a very good question, with an abundance of very good answers as well!!! Please let me elaborate if I may... Currently we have the technology as well as the capability to manufacture at a large enough scale & economy in producing near room temperature superconducting transmission cables that will have ZERO loss of electricity throughout it's entire length!!! coupled with a combination of both distributive sub-stations along the way made up of Solid oxide, or pressurized hydrogen based fuel cell clusters as well as this: http://vetropark.org/d/59743/d/enerconnetzintegration_windpark_eng.pdf applied to maintain the super conductive transmission grids as well as the existing grids themselves and therefore, eliminating the need to divert any of the energy being transmitted via the underground piping systems!!! ;)

This design application will put a whole bunch of presently hurting Rig welders "chin high" with so much work that they will change their minds about the perils of adopting "Green Renewable Alternative Energy solutions Talk about efficiency!!! These distributive fuel cell clusters will be powered by the hydrogen produced as a byproduct from the very same wind turbines which will make up the wind farms themselves... And finally, liquid Nitrogen from the fuel cell clusters will then super-cool these superconductive transmission cables which will be protected from the elements by being inserted into miles and miles of piping that was formally used for transmitting various types of fossil fuels to various points around the country!!! ;)

And we MUST convince the currently existing energy conglomerates that it will be in their own best interests especially in the long term to become real partners in achieving these goals because realistically speaking, if we don't cease the opportunities available presently as well as what will soon become more readily available through our combined investments from the subsidies both public as well as private sector, to use in developing R&D achievements in technological innovation necessary to push forward and accelerate what we already know now into efficient working systems that will not only achieve the ultimate goal of unlimited energy resources, but will also become the foundation to implementing a combination of renewable energy producing systems which will serve as a building bridge to the holy grail of Fusion, then we will inevitably only create our own demise

Nuke plants don't even come near these capabilities with respect to making very efficient use of the various byproducts produced along the infastructure supply chain when transmitting energy to their end users!!! They could if they were to adopt this Technology also but, they still have the problem of what to do with the high level long term waste byproducts that will not suddenly disappear between now and the time we finally commission a working commercially viable fusion energy power station so, you see Jeff and everyone else??? It's a series of comprehensive solutions that are needed to implement a completely efficient system of electrical generation and transmission...

But Henry! You still haven't answered my question as to how are we going to do this!!! Subsidize just like we did with the banks, the insurance companies, the automotive industry and in the same manner as the rest of the economic powerhouses that directly compete with us do also!!! We're the only nation out of the so-called G-20 that doesn't even come close to the amount of subsidies the rest of the members contribute to their own infastructure projects, and that makes us totally uncompetitive with the rest of the "pack" so to speak... No longer can we rely solely on the private sector in order to remain competitive with the up an coming economic powerhouses!!! Are you still waiting for my answer Jeff??? (Poking more fun!!! Hmmm, I'm beginning to sound like a politician!!! Not Good!!! ;) ) Well then, here it is... Wait a minute!!! I believe I already did previously!!! :) :) :)

I hope this answer doesn't disappoint anyone. ;) Plenty of "GREEN WELDING" coming our way soon enough! :) :) :)

Respectfully,
Henry

By Stephan (***)

Date 08-29-2009 13:16

Henry 'ssbn727'!

Good heavens!

That's... overwhelming!

For me - I hope you may allow - is only 1 single question left, after you have already asked AND answered so many open queries simultaneously.

"How many characters per minute are you able to perform!?"

It would take me weeks to write such an extensive and throughout reasonable answer.

I bow my head before you, Sir!

Stephan

By Stephan (***)

Date 08-28-2009 19:15

Quote:

"...the domestic capacity with some units that'll knock the socks off of what's currently available..."

This is awesome Henry! Like Jeff's ones I love your posts either! Even true... "ssbn727's" :-)

By ssbn727 (*****)

Date 08-31-2009 05:28 Edited 08-31-2009 05:54

Ummm Stephan,

The newer, yet to be commissioned GE (Yes General Electric - An American Superstar!) wind turbine by "Ecomagination" will have a capability of being able to produce 8+ MW of electical generation output, but since T. Boone Pickens pulled the plug on the deal, these turbines have been delayed in the process of deployment, installation and commissioning because, someone (Guess who!) is refusing to pay for the work already completed... So as soon as this matter is rectified, the world's most powerful wind turbines will have to wait a little bit longer in order to proves themselves to the world that GE is still around and here to stay!!! ;) In other words, We aint Dead YET!!! :) :) :)

Clipper Wind power another US company was supposed to be developing an offshore version of a turbine capable of generating up to 7.5MW of electricity but as of today, there hasn't been any sort of update on the project

Respectfully,
Henry

By ctacker (****)

Date 08-29-2009 04:40

You are correct jwright, Here is a link to USGBC http://www.usgbc.org/
and another to a LEED building we just finished steel on, You can see a live shot and see different times during the steel erection. it will soon be published in MSC mag.
Enjoy. http://www.tacoma.org/Page.aspx?nid=694

By ssbn727 (*****)

Date 08-29-2009 06:56

Very Nice!

We have a few buildings in Pittsburgh that are considered "Green" Here's one that most folks are familiar with if they have visited Pittsburgh recently, and on a sad note; One Brother Iron worker (I'm a Boilermaker until I die and I consider Iron Workers MY Brothers!) perished, and two were seriously injured while making their own contributions in the construction of this Convention Center... So there was some blood sweat, and tears as well as a life sacrificed in order to make this place a reality!!! Please honor their dignity by reserving comments regarding the accident - Thank You in Advance :

http://www.pittsburghcc.com/cc/

http://www.pgh-sea.com/conventioncenter.htm

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/David_L._Lawrence_Convention_Center

http://archrecord.construction.com/projects/bts/archives/Civic/04_lawrenceConvention/overview.asp

http://www.architectureweek.com/2003/1008/environment_1-1.html

http://www.pittsburghcc.com/cc/images/PDFs/Remarkable_Brochure.pdf

http://www.lightweightstructures-ifai.com/content/view/29/

http://www.burthill.com/projects/pages/dll_convention_center

http://sketchup.google.com/3dwarehouse/details?mid=ede902c6ab8cc51d721a9ab7a48f0681

http://www.rvapc.com/Authoring/Images/Brochures/2/2_tmp35B4.pdf

Enjoy Our Gold level LEED designation "David Lawrence Convention Center" Located on the southern shore of the Allegheny River in Down town Pittsburgh, PA! ;)
Btw, We still make a H@ll of lot of Steel here!!! :) :) :)

Respectfully,
Henry

david-l-lawrence-convention-center-2009-6-19-14-21-44.jpg (35k)

By ctacker (****)

Date 08-29-2009 15:18

Sweet building Henry, My heart goes out to the families of those injured and deceased.
Regards, Carl

By DaveBoyer (*****)

Date 08-30-2009 04:14

"Currently we have the technology as well as the capability to manufacture at a large enough scale & economy in producing near room temperature superconducting transmission cables "

Hank, do You have some more information & links about this? I knew some people who were working on superconducters & their applications at John Hopkins Applied Physics, but that was almoast 20 years ago, and I havn't kept up with them or the progress.

By ssbn727 (*****)

Date 08-30-2009 13:25 Edited 08-31-2009 06:47

Hi Dave!

Here are some of the latest advances, including actual applications... Enjoy the read Dave!!! ;)

http://www.amsc.com/newsroom/documents/LIPA%20Energized%200408%20-%20Final.pdf

http://www.amsc.com/products/htswire/HTSCables.html

http://www.futureenergies.com/modules.php?op=modload&name=News&file=article&sid=237

http://superconductors.org/Uses.htm

http://tdworld.com/underground_transmission_distribution/power_superconducting_cable_connects/

http://blog.tdworld.com/briefingroom/2009/01/21/national-geographic-channel-to-feature-southwire%E2%80%99s-superconducting-cable/

http://www.futurepundit.com/archives/001828.html

http://www.eurekalert.org/pub_releases/2009-03/ef-sps032509.php

http://www.leonardo-energy.org/superconducting-and-conventional-power-transmission-cable-comparison

http://www.redorbit.com/news/business/1449618/commissioning_of_worlds_first_superconductor_power_transmission_cable_system_celebrated/

http://tdworld.com/overhead_transmission/amsc-superconductor-transmission-celebration-0806/

http://www.geni.org/globalenergy/library/technical-articles/transmission/amsc/first-superconductor-power-cable-in-korea/index.shtml

http://www.reuters.com/article/pressRelease/idUS91653+20-Apr-2009+BW20090420

This is from the Father of Electrical Transmission:

http://books.google.com/books?id=iocAAAAAMAAJ&dq=superconductor+power+transmission&printsec=frontcover&source=in&hl=en&ei=v3qaSsOfHtWZlAfAzqm9BQ&sa=X&oi=book_result&ct=result&resnum=11#v=onepage&q=&f=false

Here's another book that is very thorough:

http://books.google.com/books?id=wiv1tuMDbTEC&dq=superconductor+power+transmission&printsec=frontcover&source=in&hl=en&ei=v3qaSsOfHtWZlAfAzqm9BQ&sa=X&oi=book_result&ct=result&resnum=12#v=onepage&q=&f=false

This one has movies directly (You'll like this one Stephan. ;) ) from CERN & their Large Hadron Collider:

http://cdsweb.cern.ch/record/1138655

Here are some .pdf's covering some of the very interesting goings on at CERN:

http://cdsweb.cern.ch/record/1203564/files/ATL-PHYS-SLIDE-2009-233.pdf

Take your pick Stephan and anyone else:

http://cdsweb.cern.ch/search?f=keyword&p=LHC&ln=en

http://cdsweb.cern.ch/record/1177862

http://cdsweb.cern.ch/record/1176912

http://cdsweb.cern.ch/record/1190469

The latest version of "Alice's Restaurant" ;

http://cdsweb.cern.ch/record/1194734

http://cdsweb.cern.ch/record/1191155

This is for anyone who wants to get up to speed on what High Temperature superconductivity is all about... However, I'm not going to post each individual link instead, I'll just leave this google search results link to get anyone started!!! :) :) :)

I hope this is sufficient to get you up to speed on the latest developments Dave. ;) ENJOY EVERYBODY!!! :) :) :)

Respectfully,
Henry

By DaveBoyer (*****)

Date 08-31-2009 01:47

Hank, I didn't read them all yet, but that first one is talking about a liquid nitrogen super conductor. Still pretty damned cold, but yes, higher temperature than the older ones.

By js55

Date 08-31-2009 12:57

Henry,
I appreciate your humor. And perhaps you will forgive me if I don't thoroughly peruse the entire published history of the Encyclopedia Britannica you have posted. :)
However, I did do a quick skim of some high points and still did not see a convincing solution to when the wind don't blow. Except maybe re-directing some of the voluminous hot air that a 'giddy with excitement' wind industry is producing in the onslaught of press releases. Interconnecting regions ("Kansas to New England" as one of your links stated) only makes them more inefficient and is not an ultimate solution, or at best delays the link for many years. The farther you send it the more you lose.
Also, I have not said that I am opposed to wind power, actually just the opposite. I think wind power has great potential, as well as some moderate actuality, so I would hope you would spare me the 'straw man' approach.
My main point is that I have yet to hear any definitive arguments of wind power's ability to replace fossil/nuke in the next 20 years. Or ever for that matter. Even from its proponents. And, even the best the manufacturer of your jumbo turbine could say was that it is up to the user to find an appropriate location to achieve a consistent 7MW or so. And there's the rub.

By Lawrence (*****)

Date 08-31-2009 15:14

One minute to download this page... Yikes...

so much for green welding.

By ssbn727 (*****)

Date 08-31-2009 16:02

Hi Jeff!

I never said that you had to read through it all in one sitting!!! ;)
Take your sweet time for all I care... However, this is coming whether we like it or not!!! :) :) :)

One question I have is this... I wonder what the comparison is to get a wind farm capable of producing 1+GW of electricity with respect to total costs from start to finish including everything necessary, and then perform a side by side analysis of what it would cost to get permits, build, test and commission a nuclear power plant with an equivalent rated output...

Also, I would like to a comparison of operational as well as maintenance costs over a ten year period by initially conducting an analysis of total operation/maintenance including waste handling/disposal costs in 5 year increments!!! Finally, I would like to see what the yearly average output would be when comparing the two types of electrical generation systems.

Only then can we look at these two systems and have a comprehensive understanding of the advantages as well as the disadvantages in the long term.

Respectfully,
Henry

By js55

Date 08-31-2009 16:38

Henry,
"However, this is coming whether we like it or not!!!"
There's that straw man again. I never said I didn't like it.

But you might add something to your analysis.
The ability to deliver power 24 hours a day 7 days a week, 365 days a year, nation wide.
I find it difficult to be impressed with an oversimplified per MW cost savings when I am having to reset my TV and my alarm clocks 5 times a day.
Why just wind power?

And we haven't even metioned the battle of keeping up with economic growth. I have trouble limiting ourselves to one form of power when we are already behind.

By ssbn727 (*****)

Date 08-31-2009 17:07 Edited 08-31-2009 17:15

I never said just wind power, and I already know that you're not totally against it Jeff!!!
I think you're reading to much into what I'm trying to describe here. :) :) :)

I never said that we must not build another nuke in this country either!!! I just do not think that we can go back building as many as some want to without honestly taking care of the long term, high level waste products which so far, have not yielded any viable long term solution, unless we're going to hedge all of our bets - so to speak on Fusion energy as the solution to eradicating this highly radioactive, long half-life waste because that would be narrow minded at best!!!

I do think that we have existing solutions to start integrating a newer, more efficient smart grid with a combination of generating systems including both renewables and certain non-renewables including careful expansion of nuclear facilities as well as some new combined cycle LNG HRSG's, clean coal plants coupled with existing as well as future carbon sequestration technologies to limit our carbon footprint or we won't have a planet left to live in if we just sit back and continue with the status quo... Btw, none of these can operate at full capacity 24/7 -365 day per year either so let's be realistic when we say this!. ;)

However, for someone to say that we're wasting time and effort into building all of this renewable energy supply is simply ridiculous to stand by that sort of reasoning because, we need ALL of these generating systems in order to maintain sustained growth!!! That is what I'm saying Jeff, so please do not misread or misinterpret what I have already said because it doesn't suit you.

Respectfully,
Henry

By js55

Date 08-31-2009 18:09

Henry,
"I never said just wind power"
I know

"That is what I'm saying Jeff, so please do not misread or misinterpret what I have already said because it doesn't suit you."
I'm not. I just wanted to make explicit that we perhaps agree more than our debate would indicate. :)

By ssbn727 (*****)

Date 08-31-2009 18:24 Edited 08-31-2009 18:30

OOOOOHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHKKKAAAYYY!!!!! :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :)
If you say so Jeff!!! ;) ;) ;) Talk about "Green Living" huh??? ;)

Respectfully,
Henry

By js55

Date 08-28-2009 16:45

I always thought Green Welding represented the shade of your complexion when you welded over galvanized.

By 3.2 Inspector (***)

Date 08-28-2009 18:21

LOOOOOOOL

By Arctic 510 (**)

Date 08-28-2009 23:11

Now that's funny...

I think "green" is an over-used and abused buzzword used to convey "relevance" and grab market share, regardless of actual benefits to the ecosystem. Plenty of "green" products, etc are not so eco-friendly. For instance- I pulled a 27' camper trailer from Alaska to Illinois. (Talk about a carbon footprint!) When I got into the areas of America where ethanol was in all gasoline, I went from 12-14 MPG to 8. That is like a 30% plus drop in efficiency. When I am burning 30% more fuel, how is that helping my emissions? When I got back to the areas without ethanol, my mileage went right back up. You people in the lower 48 can keep that "green" ethanol stuff.

My here point is not to debate ethanol or "green" policies, but to show that not everything labeled "green" is so.

By dmilesdot (**)

Date 08-29-2009 08:40

Henry, I can vouch for Spain being the leader in Wind Power. I am on a job in Northern Spain right now and the wind turbines are everywhere. They dont cluster them in big groups like in the US. They are smaller groups like 10 to 15 units but they are everywhere. We have weekends off and in our travels to see the sites, we have seen wind turbines everywhere we have been.
Dave

By js55

Date 08-31-2009 15:39

Now there's a future to aspire to. Wind turbines covering the landscape. High mountain passes like in the Sierra and the Rockies are good places for consistent wind. :)

By Stephan (***)

Date 08-29-2009 14:37

Justin,

even though it touches the original topic just peripherally.

I have never thought before about this phenomena you are describing. But, since we are having exactly the same discussion here in Germany where the Diesel fuel is spiked meanwhile with 7% bio-ethanol, I'd like to ask.

Does this mean that there's a general drop in efficiency with these fuels?

If so, well, then here's where we have come full circle! That is, what John Wright has stated in one of the very first posts in this - meanwhile all aspects of "Green Welding " covering - thread.

Quote John Wright:

"In some ways, I wonder if the scales ever tip in the right direction when weighing out the good and the bad with some of these " green" decisions...or is it based upon economics instead." .

I'm done! :-)

Thanks!
Stephan

By DaveBoyer (*****)

Date 08-30-2009 04:25

Diesel fuel has more energy than gasoline, and gasoline more than alchoal per gallon. These blended "green" fuels don't perform as well as the real thing.

By Stephan (***)

Date 08-30-2009 09:40

I see!

Thanks Dave!

Stephan

By ssbn727 (*****)

Date 08-29-2009 10:17 Edited 08-30-2009 01:48

Hi Jeff!
That reminds me of an incident that occurred right in front of me while waiting on a clinic appointment... I saw a guy that started drinking again (I know this because he smelled like a still!) after receiving a liver transplant approximately six months previously, and this "Puke" was really "Green" like The Jolly Green Giant" color of Green... H@ll! He even looked like one!!! Anywho, the fella was getting real agitated while waiting for his clinic appointment, and all of a sudden he let out a steady stream of Green Puke all over this section by a wall where luckily no one was sitting near!!! Man was that ever Gross and stunk so bad!!! He was grunting and moaning like he was possessed or something... he was really Freaking out!!!

After wards he collapsed and by then, some ER folks who were called by the clinic receptionists made it into the clinic waiting room and checked his vitals and all but, it was to no avail. :( :( :( "The Jolly Green Giant" passed away that day right before my very eyes!!!:) Oh well, maybe the Puke wasn't "Qualified" anyhow, so "Que sera-sera!!!" :) :) :) Dog Gone POSER!!! ;) Sorry but I couldn't resist telling that story again...

True Story Folks!!! No Male Cow Excrement there!!! :) :) :) Just a whole lot of PUKE!!! What a mess! That's why I don't drink anymore. ;)
I'll keep a ten foot pole between me and that sort of "Green living!!!" No thank you!!! ;)

Respectfully,
Henry

By DaveBoyer (*****)

Date 08-30-2009 04:31 Edited 08-30-2009 05:06

So the guy puked Himself to death. :-( I didn't know it was possible. You must have heard this one in Your Navy days:

There are 2 stages to sea sickness. In the first You are afraid You are going to die, in the second You are afraid You are not ...

By ronnie taylor (**)

Date 08-31-2009 04:24

THE WEALTH OF KNOWLEGE ON THIS SITE IS TRAMINDUS AND ABSOLUTELY MIND BLOWING!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!