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Up Topic Welding Industry / Technical Discussions / Fillet weld termination
- - By Kendallh Date 07-11-2003 16:26
D.1.1-2000 2.4.7.1

5/16" fillet

An outside weld inspector has challenged our inhouse QC with acceptable weld terminations. What is the requirement or general acceptable practice for length weld terminations (i.e. 1/16", 1/2", etc..).
Parent - - By jwright650 (*****) Date 07-11-2003 18:03
In the 2002 code all this has been revised to Para.2.8.3. Are you bound to the 2000 code on the job that this Inspector is checking? What exactly does he have the problem with? Is the profile not full enough for the effective length required? or are you talking about the end returns? End returns usually are twice the fillet weld size, with a max. of 4 times the weld size. (ie. 1/4" fillet would return for a 1/2", 5/16" fillet would return for a 5/8",etc...)

I may have missed the question, so ask it again if this isn't what you are asking about,
John Wright
Parent - - By Kendallh Date 07-11-2003 19:45
I am held to 2000, however, logic should allow use of newer clearer specification (that assumes logic could prevail).

My condition is a stiffener welded to web & flange, sometimes both flanges. The termination in question is both at the web and flange. Inspector states welds should terminate at the end of the piece. Our interpretation of the code and mandate on almost all DOT projects we supply, is to stop short similar to stated below or as specifically called out on design documents (TxDOT requires 1/4" short).

Kendall Hirschfeld
Parent - By jwright650 (*****) Date 07-11-2003 20:33
Kendall,
I think he should approve of you stopping short of the edge rather than undercutting the plate and compromising the effective area of the stiffener.
John Wright
Lynchburg Steel
Parent - By lewie15689 (*) Date 07-30-2003 12:57
Kendallh,
Are you asking about under-run of fillet welds. I assume you are using the 2000 D1.1 code. My interpretation of the code is a fillet weld may be terminated near the edges subject to tension the size of the weld. So as not to undercut at the edge.
Example: 1/4" weld may be terminated 1/4" from the edge.
My opinion, for what it's worth.

Lew
Parent - - By CHGuilford (****) Date 07-30-2003 16:40
I remember getting beat up on this before. I don't think it's in D1.5 because if the drawings or job specs don't show the "weld hold back" then you have to weld to the end of the joint. I remember that I didn't win that battle.
Most bridge work requires terminating fillet welds one weld size back from the end of the joint. It is usually a state DOT requirement. Primarily to reduce the possibility of undercut and to facilitate inspection of the weld size where the ends of the joint would otherwise be melted and hard to check.
I personally feel that holding back from the end makes a much better looking job, but my opinion is often not important.

Chet Guilford
Parent - - By jon20013 (*****) Date 07-30-2003 17:09
I recall going through reinspection of several nuclear power plant structural welds back in the mid-1980's because they had been welded right out to the ends and were supposed to have the ends unwelded as I seem to be reading in this thread. Apparently the reason has to do with seismic issues, of which I am no expert but I do think from what I'm seeing you should be okay with your underrun lengths.
Parent - - By CHGuilford (****) Date 07-30-2003 21:40
Actually, weld termination is very often not done correctly. Many times a welder will wrap the weld around the ends, such as on a shear tab plate on a column. However the weld symbols usually show a 2 sided fillet weld but not the all-around symbol. So in this case, wrapping the ends is incorrect. If the drawing did not show to hold back on the ends then not bringing the welds right to the ends is also incorrect.

Since we are all creatures of habit, you will usually see the welds wrapped because A) that's the way we've always done it, B) nobody told us any different, C) I just weld the way the foreman tells me to, and D) it's easier to make the weld look good that way.
Most of the time the customer doesn't object even though it's wrong so the wrong lesson is reinforced.

This is kind of like square-butt weld symbols without a specified weld size being taken for PJP or even seal welds when, technically, they should be a CJP weld per AWS standards. That problem is compounded by detailers who use the unspecified square-butt when they intend a seal weld. After that happens often enough, welders, foreman, and company presidents will jump up and down saying you are wrong when you try to tell them it's really a CJP weld. Especially when a call to the detailer verifies that all he intended was a seal weld so now who's the dummy?

But all that's all in a day's work. Sorry for getting off the subject a bit.

Chet Guilford
Parent - - By jwright650 (*****) Date 07-31-2003 10:42
CHG,
Do you work the same place I do? All you said described this place to a tee.
Maybe I'll see you at 9:20 break,
John Wright
Parent - By CHGuilford (****) Date 07-31-2003 16:25
Actually, John, today I don't get a break. I've been at one fire drill after another since 7AM and it isn't likely to let up till late this afternoon. (I'm just sneaking a peek at the forum while I scarf down some lunch)
But have the donuts ready and I'll be there tomorrow for sure :)
Chet
Up Topic Welding Industry / Technical Discussions / Fillet weld termination

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