My stupid welder

Date 09-24-2009 02:57

I don't know what your running but i had a 300D that sometimes would suck air if the gasket on the filter wasn't just right even one little piece of sand or even the old oil crusties would make it do that.

By Cactusthewelder (*****)

Date 09-24-2009 03:06

Rick, Here is a GOOD peice of advice. Trade it in on a Vantage ! I know, your in denial. But once you admit it, the rest is easy !

By richgar06 (**)

Date 09-24-2009 06:37

Haha good one is Lincoln paying you to advertise the vantage

By Cactusthewelder (*****)

Date 09-24-2009 11:45

Nope, but that is a good Idea ! I need to check with them

By J Hall

Date 09-24-2009 11:55

Don't worry about the injector line. As long as it in't leaking and you didn't kink it, it will be fine.
It sounds to me like your gasket didn't seat right on the filter.

By FixaLinc (****)

Date 09-24-2009 15:19

Sounds like a air problem or water or gremlin juice in your fuel. Getting air? How long been sitting? Mud daubers in air cleaner got it plugged up? That happens a lot.

By Regmanager (**)

Date 09-24-2009 17:06

You didn't say what kind of machine it is. but I can tell you if it's an SA250 with a Perkins 3.152 there are two O rings that go on the fuel filter. They look like they are in the right place when you reassemble it but if that's your machine, swap those O rings. I can't tell you how many times we have found that problem. Good luck. Joe

By RioCampo (***)

Date 09-24-2009 21:33

What about that gasket that is on the bleeder screw. What kind of shape is it in?

By rick harnish (***)

Date 09-24-2009 21:45 Edited 09-24-2009 21:48

Its a 300 D. Havent checked the gasket on the bleeder screw. Good call!
Im fixin to change the filter again. Yes, it has the o rings. Will be paying strict attention to how it all goes back in place.
Thank you all for the input! Except maybe Cactus. ;)
Oh, Fixalinc! No, it aint plugged. Been idle a couple of months, but I crank it pretty regular. It runs fine without load, or did until today. Gonna replace that filter.

By Cactusthewelder (*****)

Date 09-24-2009 21:57

Rick.............Wanna but a Vantage ?

By weldwade (***)

Date 09-24-2009 22:29

Rick, I would not worry much about the injector tube if it is not leaking diesel while it is running, you can fix that later. Take a good look at your filter housing and make sure there is not a piece of the old Oring stuck to it somewhere, I have had that happen to me on my trucks fuel filter. The bleed screw gasket is a verry common problem they dry out easily. Also check any rubber hoses if you have them on your machine they dry out and crack then suck air into the system. Last thing is look into the tank preferrably almost empty and make sure there is nothing blocking the pickup tube. I found a plastic sandwich bag in a coworkers machine, aparently he pissed someone off!

By Cactusthewelder (*****)

Date 09-24-2009 23:39

Rick Did you think to REFUEL it ? It has to have Fuel before the filters work right

By FixaLinc (****)

Date 09-24-2009 23:59

When Regmanager said 3-152 it dawned on me you might have those little round Stanadyne filters those are a pain if o rings aren't right or base gets messed up I hate those kind with glass bowls on bottom. Most of those filters don't come with all the o rings needed now either and were used on lots of other engines too. Best thing to do if can find another base is switch over to the square type filter or round spin on that's much easier to change out.

http://www.wixfilters.com/filterlookup/PartDetail.asp?Part=24309

http://www.wixfilters.com/filterlookup/PartDetail.asp?Part=33123

By rick harnish (***)

Date 09-25-2009 01:19

Nothing blocking the inlet, it has fuel ( smart ass Cactus! :)
I have officially perma****ed it now. Replaced the filter with care. Seemed to run decent after a slight purge. Put it under load. After about 20 seconds, it would bog. Kept after purging from every source I am aware of.
3 outta 4 of the injector lines are now grabbing the nuts when I attempt to unscrew them. It seems to tighten back down fine though.
Purge purge purge. Run, bog, run, bog. Damn thing wont even run full idle now. Or idle, for that matter. Need a mechanic at this point, best I can tell. I am making it worse.
Stupid welder! I need it tomorrow! At least I aint in LaBarge trying to pass a test! Only good thing I can think of. Stupid welder!!

By RioCampo (***)

Date 09-25-2009 01:45

Rick,

Check the fuel return lines between the injectors all the way back to the pump. If those injectors are turning when you loosen them, you have probably broken the seal on those little caps that the return lines connect to. It may not be leaking but it will suck air like a B***th. It can be hard to find, sometimes diesels will drive you crazy over little things like that. You might also change those band clamps out on the hoses with hose clamps and replace the hose while your at it.
I know it sound piddly, but often times you can't see the crack that is letting air into your system. A mechanic will do the same thing, but charge you $$ for it.
Rob

By rick harnish (***)

Date 09-25-2009 02:10 Edited 09-25-2009 02:15

Yes Sir. I figure them lines are my problem, should not have touched them.
The clamps are actually pretty stout. The hose could probably use a replacement. But ran fine before I perma****ed it.
I am thinking I have screwed them lines up.

By FixaLinc (****)

Date 09-25-2009 03:39

Rick, If you're going to replace those boots go ahead first and make sure the return lines are clear returning fuel back to the tank. Some pumps especially the Roosamaster / Stanadyne had a plastic governor ring inside them and when that plastic gives out you'll find a bunch of black or white plastic chips plugging the return line. A pump shop should update it with a steel governor ring rebuilding it. Hope that's not what it is but that's a common thing goes wrong on some pumps.

By Cactusthewelder (*****)

Date 09-25-2009 22:35

Rick, I KNOW WHAT THE PROBLEM IS !!! JACK IT UP, AND DRIVE A VANTAGE UNDER IT !!!

By okwelder82 (***)

Date 09-25-2009 23:38

Yeah thats it, cause Vantages havent had any problems right.

By Cactusthewelder (*****)

Date 09-25-2009 23:51

Not that I'm aware of !

By rick harnish (***)

Date 09-26-2009 06:14

Cactus, you may actually be on to something. You jacked up the Dodge, put a Ford under it , and saw immediate improvements!!!

By Cactusthewelder (*****)

Date 09-26-2009 11:56

SEE ! You should try it !!

By J Hall

Date 09-26-2009 01:23

So, I'm not familiar with the newer Perkins, Now the Inlectors aren't held in by two studs?

By rick harnish (***)

Date 09-26-2009 07:03

Yes sir, I have been cracking it in vain at the pump.

By banshee35 (**)

Date 09-26-2009 17:36

try bleeding at the screw on the fan side of the first injector line coming off of the injector pump itself. I had hell getting all the air out of mine when i changed the filter the first time.

By rick harnish (***)

Date 09-27-2009 01:14

Yes sir, been bleeding from there, too.
Anyone got a part number for the electric fuel pump on a Perkins 404C-22? A guy was tapping on it and it would try to run for a second. Gonna try that, but no part number in the book. Gonaa replace the fuel lines as well. They are cracking and may be collapsing.

By FixaLinc (****)

Date 09-27-2009 05:05

Perkins dealers:

http://www.perkins.com/cda/components/fullArticle?m=106440&x=7&f=186945

By Cactusthewelder (*****)

Date 09-27-2009 12:38

Rick, Dont forget..................................VANTAGE !!!!

By rick harnish (***)

Date 09-27-2009 18:30

Thank you for the link, FixaLinc. Bought a universal replacement from napa today. Replaced all the lines. Other than a small leak on the nonpressure side of the pump (wtf), she is purring like a kitten. Thanks for all of ya'lls help!!
No need for a Vantage. Thanks for the tip, though, Cactus!

By okwelder82 (***)

Date 09-27-2009 19:33

Cactus kinda sounds like a broken record

By Cactusthewelder (*****)

Date 09-27-2009 20:17 Edited 09-27-2009 20:38

okwelder. FOR YOUR INFO. Rick is a freind of mine and we work together. You still sound like my same ole Wet Behind the Ears Snotnose Kid that has SOMETHING to say about everything I write. You had your chance to meet me when I gave you the Invitation while I was in Oklahoma. You didnt bother to show. I dont mind you saying something to me or responding to my post. But if you dont start sounding like you have at least A LITTLE bit of sense, I'm gonna make another trip to Oklahoma. And before you make some wisea** remark like "Come On Up Here", I would suggest you ask some of the guys in here that know me a little better than you. Because I NEVER TURN DOWN AN INVITATION !

By rick harnish (***)

Date 09-28-2009 02:25

Yes sir, okwelder, its a friend giving a friend some crap. He is hung up on that Vantage, and I expected some grief. Cactus aint the ******* some of ya'll think he is. He can get much worse!!! :-) :-)

By FixaLinc (****)

Date 09-28-2009 03:45

Ahhhh send Cletus & Riglet they like Oklahoma :)

By ssbn727 (*****)

Date 09-28-2009 04:23 Edited 09-28-2009 04:26

ROTFMFAO!!!! :) :) :) What a Classic!!! :) :) ;) That picture speaks a thousand words!!! :) ;) ;)
I mean Dang!!! with ears like that they need pilots licenses!!! ;) ;) ;)

Respectfully,
Henry

By jrw159

Date 09-29-2009 15:51 Edited 10-20-2009 17:33

Those are the three biggest ears I have ever seen!! Looks like a taxi cab with the doors open. :-)

jrw159

By ssbn727 (*****)

Date 09-27-2009 23:22 Edited 09-27-2009 23:37

WTF??? What in the SAM HILL are you talking about okwelder 82???
I wouldn't start something that you cannot finish in here young man!!! If anyone sounds like a broken record it's you Dim Witt!!! These guys are good friends and you got to stick your neck in a place where you have no reason to make such a critique!!!

I mean is it me? Or are all of these jealous clowns that always start some sh!t in here on account that they're frustrated, out of work and the only way they feel better is by talking trash at guys that are working, and more than likely have more experience and better equipment than the ones making some stupid lame remarks towards folks that weren't even conversing with them in the first place!!! You want to be treated like a professional Okwelder82??? Then start acting like one otherwise Cactus and everyone else in here will think of you as nothing more than a spoiled little brat who's got nothing better to do than act like a CHUMP!!!

It's obvious that Dwayne and Rick are having fun with each other in the thread so, why do you have to stick your neck in with a dumb arse remark like the one you just made???
If you got a legitimate comment to make heck, them make it but, don't come in here looking for a fight because you'll lose every time - CAPECHE???

SO GROW UP BEFORE YOU END UP BEING THROWN UP!!! If you got an issue with someone in here, them send that person a Private Message instead of talking trash in the thread

Henry

By ssbn727 (*****)

Date 09-27-2009 23:18

I was at Lincoln Electric's North American equipment assembly operations on Tuesday, September 22nd on a factory tour that was given to us after an all day seminar on welding education, and I was impressed at the engine drive lines they showed us... When we got to see the Air Vantage 500, I was really impressed but, I couldn't understand why they only offered the Kubota for domestic sales and the Cummins for export only so. I asked and didn't get a straight answer because the kid that was giving us the tour didn't know that much of the engine drives since he was from the automation division instead... Hey Cactus! Do you know why they only offer the Kubota for the Air Pak Vantage 500?

I mean it's nice to have an air compressor as part of one unit but, if only one engine type is offered for domestic sales, then I don't blame you forgoing with the Vantage 500 with a Perkins instead don't you think???

Respectfully,
Henry

By Cactusthewelder (*****)

Date 09-27-2009 23:56

Henry, Not sure of that answer. I do know that my Vantage 500 Compact has a Turbo Charged Perkins. That is all that is offered on the Compact 500. I would have rather had the Air Vantage but there was a size problem. I would have had trouble with the 5th Wheel turning radius. BUT, the 500 Compact works well. I had the Kubota in my Vantage 300 and 400.

By ssbn727 (*****)

Date 09-28-2009 00:52

Hi Dwayne!

Yeah, That Air Vantage sure is huge in comparison to the Vantage 500 compact!!! I'll tell you this... At the Lincoln Electric plant they make just about everything on the engine drives in house except for the engines themselves which was nice to see!!! :) :) :)
The Stainless steel enclosures are a real advantage over anything that Miller offers that cna be somewhat comperable, and those puppies sure did weld as sweet as they sounded or looked!!! It's no wonder Lincoln is the preferred Engine drive out there!!! Top Notch Quality equipment for sure! ;)

Respectfully,
Henry

By Cactusthewelder (*****)

Date 09-28-2009 01:56

No need in asking my opinion of the Vantage. I'm sure you've heard it

By rick harnish (***)

Date 09-28-2009 02:36 Edited 09-28-2009 02:39

I bet the different engines is an air quality situation. One pollutes a fraction too much, it cant comply.
YESSIR HENRY!!! SA200. 300D. 200 Pipeliner. Vantage 3, 4, 500, or Air. LINCOLN!!!!

By RioCampo (***)

Date 09-28-2009 11:53 Edited 09-29-2009 21:19

I believe that the cummins won't meet tier 4 interim emissions currently. Not sure on the others, but they change emissions restrictions so fast that, companies are having difficulting keeping up. Others just manufacture a large number of engines under one set of guidelines and hope they last long enough to reach the next level of emissions restrictions. Tier 2 was in 2005 I believe.

By FixaLinc (****)

Date 09-28-2009 03:09

I started to suggest a pump from NAPA or someplace but glad you got something to work. Got one of those universal pumps in stock myself was going to return and thought better keep it yet never know when it will come in handy plus it has to be built better than a new one I've had it a while. :)

By theweldor (*)

Date 09-29-2009 00:12

I have an AirVantage that I bought about 6 yrs ago. It has the Cummins with a 60 cfm screw compressor gear driven off the accesory drive. Wonderful machine. I didn't realize they don't sell the Cummins here anymore.

By FixaLinc (****)

Date 09-29-2009 04:29

Unless missed something in options all I saw was the Kubota turbocharged listed now. I think RioCampo is right about the Tier 4 rating maybe only the Kubota could meet that now.

Engine Specifications
Type of Engine Cylinders HP & Speed (rpm) Generator Output Fuel Type
Kubota V3600-T EPA Tier 4i Turbo Diesel 4 58@1850 3-PH: 20 kW
1-PH: 12 kW Diesel

http://www.mylincolnelectric.com/Catalog/equipmentdatasheet.aspx?p=62514

By ssbn727 (*****)

Date 09-29-2009 22:59

Hi Fixalinc!

If you look at the .pdf document below, they also list the Cummins but, only for export because of the newly established pollution guidelines which RioCampo pointed out to me and everyone else... It's really disappointing that the tour guide @ Lincoln couldn't explain that to me when I asked him the same question... Oh well, that's what can happen when your focus is on automation only!!! ;) ;) ;)

Here's the .pdf... If you scroll down to the bottom of the .pdf, you'll find the "Engine Specifications" which will show you that the Cummins is offered but, only for export outside of the US and Canada and the fact that it has an extra 1000 hours and an extra year in the warranty compared to the Kubota:

http://content.lincolnelectric.com/pdfs/products/literature/e6217.pdf

Respectfully,
Henry

By FixaLinc (****)

Date 09-30-2009 06:24 Edited 09-30-2009 21:30

Hey Henry, Thanks for the link. Knew I was probably missing something not checking out all the pdfs and was too lazy to do so last night plus when I switched the Lincoln site to another country couldn't read it anymore or get it back to English lol. They must not have any confidence in those other country's maintenance they only get a 1 year warranty. Did get you get to see any of the robotic equipment on the tour too?

By ssbn727 (*****)

Date 09-30-2009 18:50

Hi Fixalinc!

Yes I did! In fact, that was the first part of the tour, and also the location where they had the welding educator's workshop seminar... This all was located at the Lincoln Electric Automation Division which is basically on the same street as the manufacturing Division only, it's a totally separate facility..

They showed us six different systems which were awesome to see, and some of the configurations were really impressive to say the least! They had this one system where they set up acouple of robots on a line to weld together sprinkler fittings together as well as irrigation assemblies also and I'll tell you what, these puppies were flying around that piping without missing a beat! Really cool stuff but, you got to go there yourself to see it yourself in order to grasp just how far they have come with automation today...

And I know that it's going to be even more important for today's youngster who wants to go head first into the welding field that they need to become more familiar with programming these systems in order to make themselves more valuable in the future of manufacturing which is switching more and more towards automation in order to try to bridge the shortage gap of skilled welders... So it's going to be more and more important to train future students in programming these robots as well as continuously updating them in the latest advances in welding technology in order to compete globally with the rest of the world. That's just the reality of the world today!

Finally, I believe that the future welders are going to be competitive only if they spend more time learning more with respect to welding science, and they're going to be forced to become comfortable with mathematics in order to understand the abstract concepts better with respect to welding physics as well as metallurgy... In other words, if they wish to become the new leaders in the welding field, they must dedicate themselves to spend more time in the classroom on a yearly basis, and I would like to see that the average school year become longer than it already is because, both in Europe as well as in Asian countries, the students spend much more time in school throughout each year than their American counterparts so if we are to remain competitive, we need to teach our students over longer school calenders each year!

I can go on and on but, I'll end up ranting about all sorts of stuff when all you asked me was if I saw any of the robots so, I'll stop here and reiterate with a resounding yes!

Respectfully,
Henry

By Metarinka (****)

Date 09-30-2009 21:42

I agree. As a relatively recent graduate of both a welding degree and welding engineering degree, robotics is going to be the big push in the future.

Don't get me wrong the fundamental skills are always going to be important and I'm glad I did my time as a welder and will carry those skills for my life.But in order to survive in the future I think it will be important for students to start grasping the mechanics of welding, both in science like metallurgy and math, and the applications like robotics and all the high tech processes.

I'm actually going to be starting my Masters next year for this very reason, either in metallurgy or material science, or nanotechnology, or even manufacturing engineering. I feel like stopping at a B.A means I have barely skimmed the surface of welding knowledge.