Boiler makers union???

By junkiron (**)

Date 10-10-2009 01:18

Good benefits, you just have to travel alot if your Local doesn't have alot of work.

By chris2698 (****)

Date 10-10-2009 01:25

thanks yeah the more i'm reading into this boiler maker stuff I'm thinking the more it may not be for me especially the apprenticeship program
I'm not dealing with that.

By DaveBoyer (*****)

Date 10-10-2009 01:46

How much are You making now? Ask if You get any credit for the schooling You have completed and the years You have worked. If this is the sort of work You want to do, it is probably worth going through the apprenticeship.

By Lawrence (*****)

Date 10-10-2009 02:14 Edited 10-10-2009 02:18

Chris

Don't be too prideful about what you think you know.

Almost 3 years and some tech school does not often make a Journyman.

If you are all that and a bag of chips, than your apprenticeship may be considerably shorter... Nonetheless, a boilermaker apprenticeship will provide paid training and experience at the very highest levels, family benefits and a salary that may be a reduction in the beginning (maybe not if you consider medical, dental, retirement, annuity and other fringes).

I don't know many folks who have regretted the time invested in the apprenticeships of Boilermakers, steamfitters, Ironworkers and Millwirghts.

I'm no fan of Union politics and where 90% of dues dollars go... But there is a pretty significant upside to be considered... and it may not be the step down you appear to percieve it is.

Edit:
OOps.. I see now that Allan has said all of this and much more nicely :)

By aevald

Date 10-10-2009 02:02

Hello Chris, first off, a union is not for everybody, at the same time don't necessarily knock what they potentially have to offer. You say that you would prefer not to start out as an apprentice at 17-18 an hour, it's very likely you probably wouldn't. I am not and have not been a boilermaker, I have however, had a number of students who have and are, I also have a partner who has been a boilermaker for close to 20 yrs. prior to getting into teaching with me. It is very likely that if you get serious about getting into the boilermaker program you will find that they will make some allowances for your past and present experiences, any certifications that you have held or currently hold, and they will place you in a position of advanced apprenticeship, this will also come with appropriate bumps in pay, they also tend to have some very lucrative retirement options and heathcare possibilities. Unless you are at risk of jeopardizing a current employment opportunity I would suggest giving them a chance to talk with you and for you to ask questions of them. There are certainly parts of the boilermakers union that might not fit into your idea of a "fun" job, or other things about some of the work that you wouldn't care for or that might not agree with your family values and such(mainly referring to being on the road, long hours, etc.), even having said that, they do shop work that isn't always mobile so you might end up being able to have more of the 7:30 to 3:30 type job(at a lesser wage most likely). I suggest checking it out for yourself and then making an informed decision. I do know that most of the unions are looking for qualified people even if the current job situation isn't the rosiest, so unless there is something for you to lose, give it a shot. A bit for you to think about, best regards, Allan

By chris2698 (****)

Date 10-10-2009 02:43 Edited 10-10-2009 02:47

I am by far no kinda know it all welder that is for sure and sorry if I sounded like that. I'm making 20.10 an hour health, dental, vision, 401k, 2 weeks paid vacations and paid holiday. I'm welding aluminum right now and it just really isn't for me I'm finding out although if I could do a aluminum carbon and stainless and other metals I'd be cool with that to. I just can't handle this aluminum everyday all day.

I went to a trade school to learn to weld for about 2 years and I'd say I've been outta school probally getting close to 3 years now. I just hate to take a step down and after reading online about what a apprenticeship does which was like no welding at all that kinda made me have some serious doughts but maybe like you guys say if I can go in showing these guys that yes I have gone to school for welding and that I have had a year tig welding stainless pipe and other stuff maybe I won't have to do such a long apprentice program. How long is an apprentice program??

I'm not married no kids so I don't mind the travel it would give me a chance to see the country so I think i may enjoy that part of it because i do like to travel.

I'm still gonna go down and talk to the guy and feel him out and see what he has to say. He maybe thinking he's interviewing me but really I'm interviewing him. I did talk to another guy that was in this union but he had a family and just said there was alot of traveling but you could make alot of money doing it.

Since working where i am I have about 7 certs on aluminum and carbon steel and I would say 3 are x-ray although I don't have certs in hand if they gave them out people probally would take the card and go to another job that pays more.

Thanks, glad you guys posted here it has really helped me out

Chris

By Superflux (****)

Date 10-10-2009 03:27

Chris,

If you are good enough to pass the tube tests, and agile enough to snake through a boiler, You'll probably do fairly good as a Boilermaker. I try to emphasize to everyone, the Big Money aint that easy. It is seldom bench/shop work.
If it were that easy, I'd just have my Grandma crochet it together!

By chris2698 (****)

Date 10-10-2009 03:49

thanks I'm also gonna check out another union in my area which is a plumber and steamfitters union and after talking o someone it maybe more for me. i'm gonna check them both out and see what they have to say.

Thanks for the advice everyone

By makeithot (***)

Date 10-10-2009 19:26

I have recently joined the UA 170 and and it has been a good choice for me I have worked as a welder for some 29 years have had both good and bad times throughout, the thing about the union is that upgradeing is easy and has a minimum cost to members. I was back to work in less then a day with better then average pay and had to turn down two other jobs since and have access to all the facilities and training that they offer. I signed as a journeyman but that by no means means I have nothing to learn.

By tighand430 (***)

Date 10-10-2009 03:50

They'll put you through an apprenticeship because being in a shop an bein in a boiler are two totally different worlds altogether. I'm a union pipefitter and it's pretty close to the same, but they both got their different aspects but the tube/pipe welding is the biggest thing we have in common. In other words, I can tell ya alot about piping systems, but couldn't tell you a damn thing about boiler internals since i haven't really worked in one. They'll give you some credit hrs for the welding school that you attended if you can pass certain tests, but you will do an apprenticeship if you have no boiler experience. An as far as it being a step down, don't look at it that way. You're gonna have to pay your dues doin some sort of apprenticeship but it's a small investment on what you will be making when you turn out as a journeyman. As an apprentice, you'll still have health, vision an dental, an annuity (401K), AND you'll be gettin pension credits earned which are better than what us pipefitters have. Besides, you'll prolly start out atleast 6-70% journeyman scale as prolly a 2nd or 3rd yrs apprentice which will onloy leave you about 2 or 3 years to go since most programs are 5 years.

As far as aluminum, you will really never touch that stuff again. But, you will get to weld on exotics like inconel, monel, hastelloy, and all the chrome tubing you can handle!

I'd give it a real good look because the "step down" you take for a year or two now will more than make up for it when you're in the top of a boiler weldin reheat tubes for 30-40 an hr workin 6-7 days a week.

By Superflux (****)

Date 10-10-2009 03:58

Chris,
You get out in the field and do some travelling (said you were single right?), working 60+ hours a week with per-diem making $3K/week.
If you don't like it, you can always "step down" and go back to that comfy little shop and party on with the aluminum!

By aevald

Date 10-10-2009 04:01

Hello again Chris, as I said, they will generally get an idea of where your skills are and place you accordingly. Generally, this placement gives them a point to base your wage on and also a point to start your cumulative hours with regard to journeyman status. All of the students that I have had who have gone with the boilermakers, or any other union for that matter, have definitely not had a broom or a grinder in their hands for all of the starting years of this process. In most instances the journeymen that they have worked with and under have been great about testing their knowledge and skills and allowing them to do plenty of welding, fitting , and the other associated duties of their particular job. You could also view it as adding another group of skill sets to your arsenal of tools and expanding your abilities to make a living for yourself when the going gets rough. Just a bit more for you to consider. Best regards, Allan

By ibeweldingsum (***)

Date 10-10-2009 05:44

Heck where do I sign up!! I'm settin at the house right now wishin I had a job. Hey anybody wanna buy a good 'ol weldin truk?? LOL

By chris2698 (****)

Date 10-10-2009 07:23

I just talked to someone tonight and he explained more about what boiler makers do and pipefitter unions do and from what I understand sounds like boilermakers depending on what job you get on you could be doing more wrench turning then welding and the pipefitters union you will be doing both welding and fitting and I feel that maybe more for me if true. I do need to learn more about fitting for sure. Either way I will be checking both these unions out next Friday so we shall see. I think either way I go the more I read about it the better it probally is in the long run.

Trust me I don't want to go back to aluminum welding if this doesn't work out no way in h*ll. I'm to the point I'll work at McDONALDS before I go back to aluminum......welcome to McDONALDs would you like to try our biggy size for 10 cents more??? LOL

by the way nice truck but I'd rather a dodge yeah there going bankrupt but I like them more

Thanks
Chris

By Tommyjoking (****)

Date 10-10-2009 07:49 Edited 10-10-2009 07:52

Between Lawerence and Allan you got told what you needed to know I think......

LOL Chris you got my reply to think on bud. BTW I built pressure vessels for years. Irreplaceable experience because I learned a lot about what it takes to make welds meet code requirements and most importantly...make welds shoot/Kodak good consistently. Field "boiler" /vessel work brings a lot of discipline in dexterity and making quality welds in tight hard to deal with spaces. Make no mistake, true blue Boliermakers can freaking weld with some skill as well as fit like there is no tommorow. The wrench turning as well as a lot of fab comes in on "refits" or rework pressurized pipe in the field.....that stuff is definitely harder and nastier then the new install work. There is a lot to learn there and it is definitely killer experience no matter where you wish to take your welding career. Lord knows its helped me in ways I simply would never have known otherwise. If you will be doing "shop type" boiler work, it will be heavy with lots of arc, gouging and grinder time...you will get a lot of skill in moving large heavy objects safely and maybe even some forming and metal working skills.

Its not a bad choice to try, I know several BM guys who work about 8-10 mos outta the year and they are not hurting $ wise. I am just too damm lazy for it....you will work to make your money.

Best regards
Tommy

By chris2698 (****)

Date 10-10-2009 08:27

Thanks Tommy 8-10 months outta year sound like more my gig LOL

I just read and replied to you're message although a little hazy from the woodford reserve LOL

Thanks
Chris

By Superflux (****)

Date 10-10-2009 16:07

Ahhh....
The timeless debate continues. In the right corner wearing the blue trunks ...Boilermakers... In the left, wearing red...Pipefitters...
Ok, who works harder? Someone running a jackhammer or the person with a pick and shovel? (P/F or B/M?)
Who makes more money? Doctor or Lawyer, football or basketball? (P/F or B/M?)
Whoever is telling you that P/F does less bolting than B/M or one is cleaner, one is better, etc. I guess they just haven't been on the same jobs I have.
My experience is that in either Trade, it can be the best or worst day you've ever had. Depends on the particular project (or shop if you go that route), people you're working with and a zillion other factors.
Talk to representatives of all trades and just follow your instincts.

BTW the money averages out the same... You want to work the hours...7-12s, you can put in a few months a year, make $100K in either trade.
You'll have to "pay your dues" and make a name for yourself B4 this happens. Just like so many folks hear about Pipelining and think they are going to just jump right in and make Bank Robbers paychecks.
If you believe it can be so easy. Then, learn to weld, go to diving school and you can upon graduation, instantly make $100 bucks an hour and more...

By makeithot (***)

Date 10-10-2009 19:40

Superflux, I did go to diving school and learnt how to weld never made $100 an hour, the best money I have ever done is on the back of my rig. The company made $100 plus an hour off of me but I never saw it, on a good day with all the stress $56.00 an hour plus expences. was it fun? ya, did I build some character? ya , did I get rich? no. So don't belief everything that the salesmen tells you at the diving school cause half of it is ****.

By Superflux (****)

Date 10-10-2009 19:54

I'm sure you didn't. I don't always emphasize the smart A** factor enough in my responses.
It is just like the WWII $40.00 Jeep (in cosmoline) and 200mpg carburators that the men in black suits reposessed.
No...The kicker is that way back in the 70's when I first went in to this line of work, I was told "go to Morgan city, LA. and you can make $100/hr". I've got a couple of friends that have done Salvage, Saturation, Welding and scraping barnacles. They sometimes do good they sometimes sweat the truck payment just like all of us.

By ssbn727 (*****)

Date 10-10-2009 19:50

Superflux!

That is exactly the reality of getting into this profession these days that many wleding programs fail to articulate to their potential and new students, and is also the reason why we constantly have these newly graduated students, well - not all of them but, you know where i'm headed... Who come in here and whine about how they were mislead by the school they went to, or that their instructor served them so much BS about the opportunities available to them once they graduated only to find out that if they just took the time to really listen to what their instructor was actually trying to articulate that unless they understood that they would have to pay their dues for anywhere from 3 to 5 years, they were only fooling themselves into thinking that they were going to start out at "bank robber paychecks!!!"

As we all know, young students tend to have selective hearing and formulate their own interpretations based on what attracts their psyche... They tend to develop an opinion on whatever based on what limited information that's given to them by folks who are very good at manipulating their impressionable minds, and so the 'proverbial hook, line and sinker' connection is complete yet, once they realize that none of what they have learned is realistically going to be handed to them on a silver platter and that they really needed to put more effort than they initially did, they pout and complain basically because they didn't use patience and focus enough on what was being articulated to them via the learning process.

That's why I like Allan's signature because it goes right to the heart of what these kids today need to do as opposed to fantasizing about how much dough they will be making and developing such unrealistic expectations that inevitably end up letting them down because they could not realistically meet or achieve those expectations. And they end up in situations where they put themselves in situations that they end up so much in debt, and living way beyond their means and eventually ending up having to declare bankruptcy or reverting to a life of crime which ends up nowhere fast except that now these former students have a record to accompany them for the rest of their lives!

That's why I tell my students the truth and nothing but the truth, and while some of them listen and appreciate my candor, some become angry that I tell them something contrary to what they were previously led to believe which sometime tends to get me in trouble with the administrations whom I've had the pleasure to work with over the years! :) Still, I'm not going to start sugar coating the reality of what is going to be their potential rude awakening if they choose not to pay attention to my own observations, experiences, and perspectives of the current industry trends that these students need to prepare themselves for, because I know that the ones who do listen are always the successful ones out there in the real world!!! ;) :) :)

Respectfully,
Henry

By chris2698 (****)

Date 10-10-2009 20:35 Edited 10-10-2009 20:38

Henry glad you tell the truth to you're students and I thank you for you're advice you have given me. I knew i wasn't gonna make 20 an hour when I came outta school hell my first job was like 17 but it was only a month and got insanely lucky even with that, it was in between semesters in school.... 10 an hour then it was like 13 an hour I think then 15 now 20.10.

A guy I was in school with thought he'd get outta school and make 20 an hour right off the bat WRONG he was lazy and didn't want to even work hard for that 20 an hour hell the way he'd work I would've paid him 10 because thats all he was worth. This same guy was actually offerd a position in the pipe shop at Northrope Gruman dam I would've killed to get that position LOL and he turned it down because not enough money or who knows.
I'm just trying to work my way up that tall as* totum pole is all but I after reading all these post I am believeing I can't go wrong with joining a union.

Thanks
Chris

By Superflux (****)

Date 10-10-2009 22:23

It's only a trade union not the the Mafia. They wont leave a horse head in your bed. If at any time it's not working out, you can always go back to the $20.10 aluminum or take up with non union Companies. I have one friend who (worked for TIC for years) is going to a union PF project on Monday, and know countless others who drug the union and went the other way.

By chris2698 (****)

Date 10-11-2009 00:28

oh I know I'm gonna give it a try, I have nothing to loose

By DaveBoyer (*****)

Date 10-11-2009 03:48

NOW You are looking at this from the proper perspective. Good luck.

By Cumminsguy71 (*****)

Date 10-11-2009 11:58 Edited 10-11-2009 12:01

$17-18 per hour for an apprentice??? Wow!!! You better jump on that! Applied last year at the local PF and I was way above most of the applicants that were openly talking about their scores on the tests the PF had us take. Most were warehouse, assembly line folks without a clue. I was not, everybody was offered $11/hour to start. At $11 I'd be living in a big screen box under a bridge in no time, not a big fancy lifestyle but knew I could not live on that without a chance in the evenings and weekends to get a second job.....or third..

Not bashing the union, I thank them for the offer but need to get more skills and such to pass tests or something so I can start a bit higher than that. What they are offering you sounds liveable especially single and no kids, that's where the $11 would not work for me, married with three rodents who really like to eat.

By tighand430 (***)

Date 10-11-2009 16:13

Yeah, if you coulda made the 21 an 41 test, you'd have started out as a 3rd year. but, you can still get in. Get a couple years in of pipework an go back an take the tests. If you have the work history an pass the tests, you'll turn out as a journeyman. There's gonna be alot of need for combo welders pretty soon cause alot of the older hands are gonna be retiring soon an there aint enough of us younger guys steppin up to take their place.

By chris2698 (****)

Date 10-11-2009 17:48

yeah I was surprised that these guys offerd 17-18 the other plumbers and steamfitters union i think one time i did call them and they wanted like 11-12 an hour apprentice and journeyman may have been like 23 or 24 for those guys but not positive. I'm gonna check them both out though and see whats up. I think I can't go wrong with either and like some of you say the more experience you have maybe they'll let me start off a little higher in the apprenticeship program. I'll find out next friday

By Sharp Tungsten (**)

Date 10-14-2009 00:02

Not to be rude but as the others have said you need to earn your dues before you can expect to be paid equally as a journeyman boilermaker. That would be your worst nightmare getting thrown in the grinder as a journeyman. Cause once they know you are getting paid full rate there is no sympathy for mistakes or not knowing how to do something that any journeyman should know. Honestly you say you have been out of school three years correct? Do you know how to operate a milling motor? Do you know how to tie a bow line? Do you know how to align waterwall panels? Do you know how to fit casing with grass hoppers and bars? Can you weld elements 5 deep or with a mirror? Have you ever buddy welded before? Are you afraid to walk iron at several hundred feet or go up in a pick inside the boiler on an emergency? Do you know how to operate a rolling motor? I ask these questions not be a prick or arrogant but these are some serious and basic things you had better know before you get journeyman rate. Mind you there are about 7000 more questions I could ask you. Remember your going to be a boilermaker we really don't have fitters to help you. You fit what you weld maybe if your lucky you get a pimp to go get rod and adjust your machine. And don't think your going to weld every day all day. You got to be able to do it all fitting, rigging, wellding, layout, and fabrication. You will be hated universally by all other crafts because there is going to be disputes in whos work it is. Fitters and ironheads are usually mad at us and that's just the way it is. You will get dirty, you will have to crawl through hatches and ports that are tight and wreck your body, you will see asbestos, you will get burnt almost daily when performing hot work, you will get run off a job for busting to many x-rays, you basically will get what you asked for by wanting to be a boilermaker. Now here comes the argument of the century who has the best welders? I don't know and I don't care. Personally I think it comes down to what your welding. I wouldn't put my money money on a pipe liner vs. a aero space welder if the welds were going to be titanium tube welds. We pretty much worry about tubes and plate. Any where from A-36 carbon to iconel or hastelloy. Well I hope this answers some questions and gives you a general idea of the scope of work. Once again not be ignorant or pompus just informing.

By Mat

Date 10-14-2009 08:52

Hey guys,

Here's a goofy question. As a journeyman welder with no formal union apprenticeship (ala, I havn't done my dues apprenticing within a particular union), would the boilermakers and/or pipefitters union accept a journeyman for a union apprenticeship working under more experienced people and/or helping out? In paper it says I'm a journeyman, but with what I know (or what I lack-there-of!) I find myself questioning what I can and can't do.

Hopefully that made sense as I'm bad at explaining things. :)

Cheers, guys!

By tighand430 (***)

Date 10-15-2009 20:38

The pipefitters will bring you in as a full journeyman as long as you can pass the tests and have atleast 5 years verifiable pipefitting experience. That's how I got in an glad i did. Now there are plenty of hands that'll try to put down other hands that organize in sayin that we are just damn book buyers, but don't pay no mind to them. If you're a good hand an not a slug, you'll do fine. Just let your work speak for itself. As far as payin your dues, you've already done it with your on the job experience.

By Smooth Operator (***)

Date 10-15-2009 00:36

Sharp T. Don't take offence, ironworkers usually cry about ANYBODY that makes more money per hour than them, weither it's millwrights,crane operators,elevator trade ( "hey that used to be our work" is their mantra) or job super. They just feel their superior and should make the "top wage" on the job. Believe me I have to hire these characters every job, the last pusher I just parted ways with felt it was ok to spend my money however seemed fit, told me after the job was over "I made you money by coming in on schdule" ,yeh but you spent 10000.00 extra that comes out of companies profit. Should have noticed red flag when he told me on the first job " you know the contract wage is just the minimum I'm allowed to make not the maximum" PS. GO STEELERS IN THE HUNT FOR #7

By chris2698 (****)

Date 10-15-2009 23:27

Thanks guys, I don't feel any of you are being rude you're just giving me advice is all and i'll take it all. I'm going tomorrow to talk to the boilermaker guys and gonna call and see if I can go pick up an ap. for the steamfitter union. I'll do whatever the hell it takes to get off this dam aluminum I don't care :)

Thanks
Chris

By OldSparks Date 10-17-2009 17:17 Edited 10-17-2009 17:21

Long time Canadian boilermaker here and I've never had any doubts. For anyone interested in what we do, check out the photo gallery....click on most of the pictures....some have slideshows. If you want, the work always changes.

http://www.boilermakers359.org/pages/photoalbum_memberphotos.htm

By chris2698 (****)

Date 10-17-2009 20:56

went and talked to the guy yesterday for the boiler makers union and now on Monday gonna talk to the guy about the local 60 steamfitters union. Didn't sound like there was a ton of work around for the boilermakers union but I don't know it kinda sounded a little sketchy talking to the guy but will send a resume in and see what they say. I mean I know the economy is bad but dam I don't want to be sitting on the couch so who knows we'll just see but first is first I will check the other union out and see what they can tell me.

They maybe interviewing me but I'm really interviewing them as well is the way I look at it. Will tell more after I get a chance to talk to the others Monday

Oldsparks thanks for the website