Auto Helmets

Date 10-18-2009 19:11

Rocko,
On the right of way I think you will find that flip up hoods are pretty scarce. Most pipeliners use pancake hoods. There are auto lenses that fit the pancake hoods and I have been told they are becoming popular but most that I have seen just go at it old school.

jrw159

By chris2698 (****)

Date 10-18-2009 20:31

I agree old school I use to use a autodark but no more

By JTMcC

Date 10-18-2009 22:35

I've seen more auto lenses than conventional over the last couple of years in the pipeline field.
Just an estimate but I'd figure probably 60% or more are using an automatic.

JTMcC.

By Metarinka (****)

Date 10-19-2009 13:44

why the hold out? I learned to weld on traditonal flip downs, but moved to AD when I started doing sheet metal tig and coudln't be blowing thru my work. Right now I'm back to flip down, but that's what the company has on hand. I prefer the AD.

Personally I'll always prefer the AD if i have a choice, is there a reason pipeliners would stil want a flip down hood?

By JTMcC

Date 10-19-2009 14:06

Like someone already mentioned in this thread, pipeliners very seldom wear bucket hoods. They wear pancakes. People use whatever they prefer and whatever gives them the clearest view.

JTMcC.

By Metarinka (****)

Date 10-19-2009 16:13

yah I guess it boils down to personal preference, and the nature of the job. I always find it's easier to stick weld with a flip down, than tig where it's critical that you don't foul the tungsten.

By JTMcC

Date 10-19-2009 16:37

Keep in mind that outdoors in daylight, with a pancake, the welder has a pretty good view before firing off.

And auto lens quality has improved over the years, used to be the clearest view possible was with a regular lens. Automatic lenses are better now than they were. They are still heavier and usually take up more space, factors when you weld 60-90 hours per week.
Bucket hoods are heavier and have less ventilation than a pancake, let sunlight in the back which is a negative outside, and have a tendancy to fall off when you're welding on the bottom of big bore pipe. Plus it's harder to lay your head down with a bucket hood when welding the bottom.
A pancake with a battery powered auto lens is bigger and considerably heavier than one with a regular lens.

JTMcC.

By low_hydrogen (**)

Date 10-19-2009 17:45

I have used both. I disagree on the weight issue I can't tell a difference in the weight of my pan cake ad versus traditional glass? I can how ever tell a difference in my neck when I use a flip hood. Which I use in shop setting just to keep from getting my face burnt from reflection off walls etc.

I know a welder in his 70s who started out using the fiber metal flip hoods, after years of use had severe neck problems. Dotor told him he had worn out his neck muscles flipping his hood down for years. That's when he found his first hand made pancake and claims it saved his welding career (doctor wanted to put rods in his neck and fuse some sttuff togather)

I get mine from sarge and have been through several ad lenses sellstrom has lasted the longest but would see a line across lense when it went light, Switched to a cheaper radnor lense get about a year and a half out of them but no lines or other problems to speak of.

I put a clear in front and one behind and roll two lense cover papers up and shove them in the side to hold the lenses from shifting in the helmet. I seal the wood on my helmet (sweat breaks the wood down) The only complaint I have is a litttle skin irritation on my cheeks but I have a big nose lol!

I can't imagine going back the auto dark lenses are the only way to go imho. I only use the ones that are non adjustable and have a sealed battery and at the first sign of trouble I toss them and get a new one at $80-$150 each if they only last a year you got your moneys worth imo........

By jffluxcore (**)

Date 10-19-2009 17:34

I think the best shield id auto darking and have a air filter.

By Mat

Date 10-19-2009 22:33 Edited 10-19-2009 22:37

I've been using an arc one singles 240 in a shade 10 lately and while they're not a variable shade, they don't need batteries and will fit into a regular helmet. They're about the same clarity as a glass lense.
http://www.plwelder.com/store.php?crn=206&rn=395&action=show_detail

By 52lincoln (***)

Date 10-19-2009 23:46

thats what i use.wouldn't trade for it shade 9.couldn't find an 8

By Mat

Date 10-20-2009 23:35

I don't believe that they make them in an 8. I've only seen them available in a shade 9 through 12.

By scrappywelds (***)

Date 10-21-2009 00:52

I have an ArcOne in an 11 shade. Used it for about 1 year, after numerous flashes in the power house tight pipe racks I have went back to a tool room cheapo F&M Mafco brand after my fitter broke my American Optical. Hindsight though the laminanted glass sometimes gave me a double vison where the cheapo single glass doesn't, and in my opinion is very clear comparable to a lincoln supervisibilty. As far as an auto darkener hood I like the Spedglas brand except mine keep burning the sides of my neck.

By DaveBoyer (*****)

Date 10-21-2009 02:22

I don't know about the new ones, but My 10 year old Arc One only has 2 sensors. If both of them are in a shadow, it won't darken. I got more flashes with standard hoods than I get with the auto.

By ronnie taylor (**)

Date 10-21-2009 02:53

Man I hear ya on the double vison really gets on my nerves. I was using a anchor #11 in my pipelinner, I Got a good deal on a speedglas 9002x it's the most clear view I've ever had, but I have to wear earplugs to keep the buckshot outta my ear.

By Tommyjoking (****)

Date 10-21-2009 08:56

I watched and waited and tested for the last 23 or so years. I finally bit and started using a "speedglass"/AD lens this last two years exclusively when I TIG weld. I just could never find a lens that shaded evenly all the way across, was reliable enough with activation, or what have you. I use a jackson Boss lens and I am impressed with its performance. It is weakest in position vs activation then several other lenses but this can be well compensated for with its adjust ability. Overall the clarity and consistency of shading is very good and approaches optrels very best stuff. Optrel stuff is very very good. BUT the lenses are heavier any way you slice it...especially with large "full face" lenses. I use a super light composite hood to help compensate for the weight but its still heavier and noticeable......but if you use it like you should and your not raising your hood very much its not as bad. I use these in shop in a controlled environment. In the field out in the sun, I am not sure I would use one except in certain circumstances or at least not in every case. I use to carry several hoods set up different when I worked a rig, just because I hated having to change lenses and sometimes I needed something different to fit in a tight space. But irregardless I notice a difference in the weight and the strain from it at the end of the day.

So I guess all I could say is you got to work with it to know if it works for you. But I would not go cheap on a lens, the more expensive ones really do perform and work much better then the cheap ones.

Good luck
Tommy

Best of luck
Tommy

By Paladin (***)

Date 10-22-2009 13:00

Talking about seeing the bevel before you strike off, an old welder told me he used a # 5 (torch cutting) lens in his pancake hood when just running stringers. With the rod buried in the bevel it is not that bright. But starting and breaking the arc is brighter. I don't know if that did it or not but his vision was not so good anymore. I would think when it is cloudy or low light it would be hard to see through a # 9 or darker lens.

As far as flip hoods for pipe welding, Speedglass did not work at all for me. The head gear is so flimsy that when leaning over to weld the side and bottom of the pipe the hood leans over and falls away from the direction you need to look. As far a being light and compact, I had a Hobart auto hood that was my favorite, light and compact for those tight bell holes. Only thing, the auto lens quit too soon. I have trouble with the headgear on Jacksons. I can never keep them in adjustment. Either fall down too soon or if tightened up a little too much fling off my head when trying to drop it down. Plus they are heavy. The Miller Elite has worked well for me for several years now.

Sunshine in the back of a hood can make things difficult for sure. An umbrella is a solution. I've also had a helper stand in the right spot to block the sun. Winter it's worse because the sun is lower for longer.

It is my opinion that the people in charge of designing welding hoods do not have to use them all day long.

Tommyjoking, where do you get a lightweight composit hood?

By Tommyjoking (****)

Date 10-23-2009 07:42

Hi Paladin,

"paladin paladin where do you roam, paladin paladin far from home....have gun will travel..." LOL sorry man could not help it.

Ummm you probably will not like my answer but its a common Jackson "halo" model hood. Its only ounces lighter then your Elite..not a lot of diff. No neck/chest lip ...is more along the lines of a fibermetal hood except much narrower and "less coverage". Its made out of some polymer similar in feel/texture etc. to thin Kydex. I doubt this hood would shatter if dropped from a plane...its very rubbery and flexible.......but its also very very light. The headgear weighs more then the hood. Perhaps you could fit different headgear without too much trouble, pretty sure you could. BUT its setup for Jackson lenses so that would be the kicker. I am happy with it simply because it really offsets the weight of the lens which is substantial...a Boss lens has a lot of glass. I have tried it with a plastic "true color"/gold lens and I was like I am wearing a headband not a hood!!! Its pretty light. I doubt I would ever use it where I was really throwing any sparks in rough positions...for tig work its pretty sweet.

I have been waiting for some time at work ...I was gonna try to build a hood off some optrel headgear outta really thin CF sheet. It would not be tons lighter then the halo but ever bit makes a diff.

How do you like the elite lens?? Is is staying consistent for you???

Tommy

By ssbn727 (*****)

Date 10-23-2009 18:28

My favorite shield was one of those short shields we used to get from Electric Boat while working there...

Those hoods were so darn light and small enough to stick your head in some rather tight spots that you couldn't attempt with a regular shield, and were also great for pipe welding in between racks where there was limited access inside the subs especially in the engine rooms and working within the confines of the reactor compartment as well as some locations found in the torpedo room also. They weren't made of the different types of plastic or a combination of fiberglass and some polymers...

They were actually made of a paper type material that was coated with some sort of resin or chemical that really was good at not absorbing the UV rays from the arc even though the thickness of the material was very thin, the rigidity more than made up for it and that was possible also because of the resin like compound that was used on the paper as well. They had a standard head band which was probably heavier than the hood itself including the lenses that were attached to the shield.

The only down side to this shield was the obvious fact that protection was not as adequate when compared to a full size shield but, you could get into locations where a full size shield would never fit! I would pop rivet a piece of leather in front of the shield on the bottom lip for neck protection and piece of pigskin leather on the top lip of the hood for protection from spatter falling on my head and hair as well as my ears.

Back then,the A.O. Cool blues were popular and we used them along with some gold plated "True blues" which were just coming out in those days.. I also had one for some low amp Mirror TIG (GTAW) welding where we would use a rose colored lense that's commonly used in steel mills to look at the liquid as it's being poured out of the giant ladles which worked really well for certain applications where the light was very restricted in the locations where we found ourselves in sometimes, and you knew ahead of time that the job would require that maybe 60 amps tops was needed to complete the job, so these lenses were ideal to work with under those conditions.

I know that there some folks in here that know which shield I'm talking about because they used them also and if you do, where could I possibly buy one of those because I've tried locating one of those @ one of the local welding supply stores around my area with no success. I haven't looked enough online but, if anyone has a lead, please let me know because those shields were so comfortable to use! ;) ;) ;)

Respectfully,
Henry

By Superflux (****)

Date 10-23-2009 20:22

Henry, you don't happen to remember the brand name of those lo-profile hoods perchance?

By ssbn727 (*****)

Date 10-23-2009 22:25

No sorry I don't but now that I've thought about it some more... The material for the hood was vulcanised fiber much like the hunstman hoods only smaller and a lower profile.
I think that it's a discontinued model that's probably considered obsolete by the company that manufactured the hood.

What I want to see is a hood with a lense that can magnify or zoom in the view of the welding area, and can also have an attachment tat's sort of like a digital mirror so to speak, so we can come up with a semi automated multi articulated arm that can twist and bend itself along the line of sight that the welder is viewing via transmitted images to the lense so that the welder can guide the arm into the precise position to strike the arc and can view the welding area is if their own head and neck were able to contort itself right in front to the deposit area and be able to weld it without any degree of difficulty at all!!! ;) ;) ;)

Wishful thinking eh??? There's already a Korean company that has applied for an international patent for something similar but not quite along the same intent for use, but that's another story so I'll just stop here. ;)

The name of the hood that I wish I could remember was either one of the main two or three manufacturers back then and they were: Fibre-Metal, Jackson and Sellstrom even though Hnutsman at the time was really gaining in popularity in those days so, who knows which one made them! I wish my memory served me better because they were great welding hoods/shields. :) :) :)

Respectfully,
Henry

By pipewelder_1999 (****)

Date 10-24-2009 18:38

I remember those being called "Decking Hoods" . They were designed for Oxy Acet welding and cutting. I remember a sticker in them saying Not for Arc Welding. I think it was a huntsman. They make a 711P that can be seen at http://www.harrisweldingsupplies.com/jacksonhuntsman711pweldinghelmetwithaluminumglassholder.aspx .

By scrappywelds (***)

Date 10-28-2009 20:27

huntsman still makes the little vulcanized shell hoods for OAW only. Ofcouse it is only a regular 2" x 4" lens so you can switch it out for a welding lens. Alot of tube welders I know use them. I took a regular vulcanized 4" x 5" huntsman hood and cut it down the same profile as the OAW only hood, then cut the ratchet out and modified the head gear like the fibre-metal pipeliner with the rubber band. It works very well in the boiler for most welds. But when it gets real tight I switch to my "monkey hood", flip lens cutting goggles with a tinted faceshield lens cut down a little bigger than my face for the shield part. It is like a pancake hood but a lot smaller. It works real good for the tightest of spots.

By Paladin (***)

Date 10-24-2009 01:40 Edited 10-24-2009 18:37

Tommyjoking.
Paladin was my favorite when I was a very little boy. Instead of Have Gun Will Travel, I, HAVE RIG- WILL TRAVEL.

I like the Elite lens and hood. The lens has given me no trouble. Seems as good as when new. When outside looking toward the sun, I have had to adjust the sensitivity almost all the way down to keep it from triggering. At the other end of the sensitivity I have TIG welded as low as 5 amps and it darkened every time. It has a grind position that is useful. I do wish the lens could tell the difference in a spinning bead brush in the sunlight or grinding sparks and an arc. It seems fairly easy to change clear lens and a cheater is easy to install or swap out.

I have a Jackson Halo. Can't remember exactly but the headband or lack of coverage made me put my lens back in my old Jackson Shadow. I've thought about trying to make a carbon fiber custom hood but just can't seem to get momentum on that project.

By Mat

Date 10-28-2009 08:16 Edited 10-28-2009 08:20

Vulcanized Fiber helmets. I think one of my chargehands from a past job used/still uses one. I've Never seen a lighter helmet.
http://www.ukwelder.com/shop/helmets/north_safety.php