Certify Welder to D1.1 and D1.5

Date 10-22-2009 23:59

The welder welded a test you are to record the results of his qualification, You can put them (the results) to any Code eligible.
I found out the hard way about not having the wqr's written to both codes during AISC Simple Bridge certification. They just took one test.

By 803056

Date 10-23-2009 16:34

Welder qualification to D1.1 and D1.5 is not all that different. I would make sure the materials used for the test are listed in both codes and use a qualified WPS. Do not allow the welder to use power tools during the test or modify the weld profile with the use of hand tools. That should cover both codes with a single test.

Best regards - Al

By eekpod

Date 10-23-2009 18:13

Thanks guys, thats what I thought as well.
The material is duel-certified so it meets both ASTM and AASHTO. My proceures fall within both parameters, and its the same illustration in each code. The acceptance criteria is the same, and we don't allow grinding anyway.
Just wanted to make sure I wans't missing anything hidden in the fine print I wasn't aware of.
Have a good weekend
Chris

By waccobird (****)

Date 10-23-2009 19:57

You too

By HgTX

Date 10-23-2009 21:24

None of that means you won't wind up with some over-enthusiastic inspector who thinks you can't use the same test for two qualifications.

Hg

By jess123 Date 10-23-2009 23:50

I find it interesting that D1.1 only allows 1/8" reinforcement, while D1.5 allows upto 3/16" reinforcement on welder quals (unless I missed something).

We've always "dual-certed" our guys if they qualify per D1.5 standards. Unfortunately, one of the rounds of D1.5 certs got through our QC with A36 listed as the material type. This caused a lot of problems, but thankfully the certifying agency had the mill certs for their welder quals (which of course were dual certed A36 and A709 Gr. 36). I watch the quals like a hawk now that we've had to deal with that pain. Just a word of caution... from someone that had to deal with it!

By jwright650 (*****)

Date 10-26-2009 11:20

Funny how those little slip-ups keep your attention long after the fact...LOL....I have to say, "been there, done that".
( I passed on buying the t-shirt though.)

By HgTX

Date 10-28-2009 15:49

The change to the D1.5 weld reinforcement on the welder qual plate had to do with the fact that D1.5 doesn't allow any grinding on the test plate. The final profile requirement for production welds is 1/8", but this can be achieved by grinding; there's no code requirement for welders to be able to produce 1/8" reinforcement in production without grinding. So the test plate is more onerous than production welding in that regard, but that additional burden doesn't really serve any useful purpose. The increase in allowable reinforcement was meant to compensate for that without removing the grinding restriction. (Otherwise they'd have to say, "You can grind the cap, but don't use that to hide your underfill or undercut," and that just gets too complicated.)

Hg

By Shane Feder (****)

Date 11-02-2009 03:48

Good morning all,
As I am currently working with AWS D1.1 & D1.5 clarification of D1.5 Clause 5.21.3 would be greatly appreciated.
As far as I can see ASTM A 36 and ASTM A 709 Grade 36 are both Group 1 materials (D1.1 Table 3.1) and have the same minimum yield strength and same tensile range.
AWS D1.5 Clause 5.21.1 states " Purpose. The qualification tests described in Part B are specially devised tests to determine the welder's, welding operators or tack welders ability to produce sound welds."
How can the change from A 36 to A 709 Gr 36 alter a welders ability to produce sound welds ?
Regards,
Shane

By eekpod

Date 11-02-2009 11:19

As long as the material that was used for the test was duel certified to both ASTM and AASHTO it won't change anything.
In my opinion, even if the material was not duel certified and say met only ASTM A36, it still woulnd't change anything,but the paper trail would not be there and that would be a potential problem.
As I undrstand it, ASTM can be used for buildings, AASHTO for highway bridges. When you compare the specs side by side, from memeory I believe they are identical, it not they are close, I'm working from emeory here so I need a little give.
Basically as long as you meet AAHSTO, I think you will always meet ASTM.
Chris

By waccobird (****)

Date 11-02-2009 12:14 Edited 11-02-2009 12:27

Shane
I am working this from AWS D1.5 2002
It doesn't, like you mentioned they are both group 1 Materials, 5.21.3 Base Metals The Base Metal used shall be an AASHTO approved steel as described in 1.2.2 or the wps (see 5.24.1.1) Says concerning base metals Qualifications established with any one of the steels allowed by this code shall be considered qualification to weld or tack weld any of the other steels with the following exception:
Qualification to weld or tack weld steel with a minimum yield strength of 620 MPa [90ksi] or greater shall be established with steel meeting the same specification as steel for the project.
Hope this helps more than hurts

By HgTX

Date 11-02-2009 15:50

They're both Group 1 only in D1.1. D1.5 doesn't have groups, so from a D1.5 standpoint "both in Group 1" doesn't mean anything. What saves you in this case is that in reality they're not just in the same group but they are the same steel; you wouldn't be able to get away with a simple change of paperwork if you'd used some other Group 1 steel that doesn't correspond to a grade of ASTM A 709 and then tried for a D1.5 qualification.

What it comes down to is D1.5 doesn't deal with steels other than ASTM A 709. As it happens, A 36 *is* ASTM A 709 Gr. 36 (modulo some mandatory CVN testing that doesn't apply to welder qual), so you can get the mill to give you a different cert and you're covered.

Hg