grinders needed

By fbrieden (***)

Date 11-24-2009 19:28

IR 4 1/2" pneumatic, model #3445

By Joseph P. Kane (****)

Date 11-24-2009 19:47

4 1/2inch Metabo Electric.

By ctacker (****)

Date 11-24-2009 21:01

I'll stick with Joe on the Metabo 4-1/2"

By Blaster (***)

Date 11-24-2009 20:35

Hard to beat the Makita 9005B, although it is a 5".

Honestly my best suggestion is to require the students to buy their own 4.5" or 5" grinder. They aren't quick to tear up their own stuff.

Then furnish a few 7 or 9 inchers for contingency use.

By dbigkahunna (****)

Date 11-25-2009 02:37

I agree. Furnish 9 inch and be sure it is the heaviest one you can find. Bosch comes to mind. If they want to use a smaller one, bring their own. The heaver the grinder the better the student will become on welding and cutting.

By burleigh26 (**)

Date 11-24-2009 21:45

man your nice, i wish where i went let us use their grinders. stundents provided there own hand tools and grinders. as already said, when you buying your own stuff, you think twice about abuseing it.
Dewalt dont last, ive been through 5 in a year, about to start charging my helpers for burning them up. lol

By Lawrence (*****)

Date 11-24-2009 21:54 Edited 11-24-2009 21:58

Metabo is best.

When I started my current teaching gig at a tech college:

I had in inventory of about 15 of the 6" grinders and two broke during the first week... I called up the local tool rep as mad as a hornet and demanded that he replace these crappy Matabo grinders without delay... The guy was patient and simply asked me for the part numbers of the grinders so he could get me the right ones.

After I supplied the PN's to the guy he quickly called me back and informed me that those grinders were 13 years old...

I use 4 1/2 Milwaukees for sanding with a backing pad and stringer bead brushes only.

I like to keep the 6" Metabos with 5/8" mandrels and the 4 1/2" Milwaukees with 1/2 inch mandrels... This keeps the students from putting the wrong consumables on the wrong tools. The system works for us.

By okwelder82 (***)

Date 11-25-2009 00:36

I have had a 4 1/2 inch Milwaukee for 6 1/2 years and its still going stong.

By low_hydrogen (**)

Date 11-25-2009 00:48 Edited 11-25-2009 00:57

You probably are aware of this but, dewalt makes a higher quality grinder than what you find in most hardware stores.
metabo is a great grinder, but exspensive, I've had a hitachti for 12yrs.

http://www.dewalt.com/DWAssets/english/flash/D28402/D28402.htm
I have had great luck with these dewalts

http://www.cpopowertools.com/categories/grinders_and_metalworking/high_performance_grinders.html

d28114n
13 amps 11000rpms

By rondar

Date 11-25-2009 03:32

Metabo, but are expensive.
RJS

By NMWELDING (**)

Date 11-25-2009 03:49

Metabo in my opinion. My oldest one is still going after 26 years without having done a thing to it. They are worth the extra cost.I have 3 but the oldest is my main grinder,all 4 1/2.

By F-17

Date 11-25-2009 06:12

You ain't teaching grinding,take them away and make em learn without one.When I went to school there was a grinder for feathering tacks and that was all you got to use it for.I get away with using a wheel per week,sometimes I can stretch it two if I'm in the shop only,tacks and restart nuggets is the only thing I use the grinder for.Met plenty of others that use them the same way.I've also worked with quite a few that have to see their reflection in the bead too.you know the guy his name is Sir Grinds alot.I proved to a guy one time that A person could make a passable weld without ANY grinding at all.He was a really bad grinder,drove everybody NUTS,he even ground on his caps everyplace he restarted.

By Tommyjoking (****)

Date 11-25-2009 08:03

as far as the big ones go 9" the toughest I have ever used was the tried and true wildcat by BD I would not recommend black and decker on much of anything but a BD heavy duty industrial or "wildcat" it simply is unstoppable (but I did have a cheap 3/8 drill from them that lasted 20 years). The gears and case are bulletproof, the factory bearings last just this side of forever....the motors rarely need brushes and by then you are wanting to take it apart to thoroughly grease it anyway (they do have zerks on the gear case). BTW did I mention dropping them 25 ft onto concrete changing the wheel and using it again.....its the shiznit. OLD milwawkee stuff is worth the expense to have fixed....when Milwakee had metal casings anything they had was powerfull and tough....since they went to plastic cases the internals did about the same as far as I am concerned. Never used any metatabo except for a 4" for a short time...it seemed like it was a good grinder. Hitachi is good, Bosch stuff works good but expensive to repair. My little $.02 on hand grinders

Tommy

By chris2698 (****)

Date 11-25-2009 10:29

I don't know if anything will hold up with students. I remember when I was in school they had grinders some were like 9 inch i think dam they were heavy. I mostly brought my own, you could tell who was in it for learning and who was there to goof off. I think after the teacher realize students were bringing there own grinders he felt bad and started buying more grinders and pretty much gave the grinders to the ones who were willing to learn. We had Dewalt although went back to say hello a year later and those pretty Dewalts were so dam banged up it was unreal. We had one Metabo and that thing sure was nice I think someday I'll have to get me one of those

By Cumminsguy71 (*****)

Date 11-25-2009 11:01

I don't know why everyone always says the Metabos are so expensive? Scared me off of them for a long time. Then I spent $115 on a Milwaukee and later found this.

http://www.weldfabulous.com/Corded-Power-Tools/Grinders-Cut-Off-Tools/4-To-4-12/Metabo-600264420-W8-115-Quick-p5918105.html

I bought some Tillman gloves from these guys...lws could not get. Anyhow, good place.

As far as grinders go, I have a Milwaukee, think it's the 13amp? Maybe bigger, this thing is a hog all in a 4 1/2" package. I'm rough on a grinder(mine) when it comes to beveling pipe, small sch.40 I usually just slam the grinder on there and just about chew enough off in the first pass. I've eased up on it now, it has proven it's salt. Been over a year now since I bought it, plus it has a 5 year warranty from Milwaukee, not sure about Metabo's.

I agree with the students tearing stuff up. We got a couple up where I'm at I swear could tear up an anvill with a rubber mallet. Teacher now puts a grinder on the new students list of "things they need" which I think is a great idea. They pay for it themselves and they'll learn to take care of schmidt if it's their own money being spent. I always used my own grinder, tired of looking for one and usually beat like a rented mule when I found it.

By chris2698 (****)

Date 11-25-2009 11:13

Shawn I was just looking at weldfabulous on ebay that guy does have some dam good prices.

Thanks for telling me about the Milwaukee I have always wondered how good that 13 amp grinder was and a 5 year warranty ain't bad i think Metabo is 3 years and I agree, I hated searching for tools I liked having my own when I needed it

By dringge (*)

Date 11-25-2009 11:50

Thanks everyone for your input.
F-17, you and I are like minded. I dont allow personal grinders for everyone in the lab. We have a grinding room where clean up grinding can be done or joint prep. The bulk of the clean up is done with a chipping hammer and a wire brush. Once students are taking a welder qual test I allow a wire wheel for cleaning. My students are there to learn to weld not grind. In pipe classes they can have a personal grinder for feathering tacks, etc but they dont grind much because they dont need to.
I am aware that there are cheap DeWalts and better ones. I have never believed in cheap tools. Anyone who has worked off of a portable welding truck knows what its like to have tools break or stop working. It is a pain.
I'll probabaly look at buying some Metabos. I looked at them on their website. The DeWalts I buy have a paddle switch on the bottom side that I really like. Looked like most of the Metabos had a top side thumb switch. I never did like those. They seem awkward.
Also what about grinding wheels. I have used Sait hard discs for many years. What does everyone else use. There seem to be a lot of brands and opinions out there.

By paul prill (*)

Date 11-25-2009 12:51

I have Makitas and Metabos that are 5-7 years old and they work like dogs, we purchased some Milwaukees in June because they had a buy 1 get 1 free deal going on, some of them are already having bearing and motor issues. i dont let my students grind much they are there to weld not grind, so the grinders dont get used that hard, most of the grinding is for prepping straps for bend testing, and there isnt much grinding on thoses as we use a Saywer strap cutter with a plasma to cut the straps. As far as grinding wheels the United abrasives work the best for a reasonable price, talk to your vendor, united Abrasives has a deal that if you buy 300 pieces there is no shipping charge, so when i need cut wheels, wire wheels or sanding pads i make sure i have a 300 piece order (most of my vendors have told me that shipping has gone up 8-10% this year and wioll go up again this year)
just my 2 cents worth.

By rlitman (***)

Date 11-25-2009 17:31

In the 4.5" class (115mm)
The W8-115 is the thumb switch.
The WP7-115 has a paddle, and the WPS7-115 has a "deadman" paddle.

These are a little harder to find (on eBay or in a store), but shouldn't be a problem to order.

Personally though, I don't find the thumb switch awkward at all.

BTW, don't forget about safety either. Metabo's have a safety clutch, that will let the wheel slip if it binds, instead of throwing the grinder.

By low_hydrogen (**)

Date 11-25-2009 23:08

Sait but, the supply store is trying to push norton. So far they seem to work and last just as well as the sait disc. The price is about the same a little cheaper right now since they are pushing them..

By FixaLinc (****)

Date 11-26-2009 01:36

I've had yellow Dewalt with the thumb switch and it has lasted longer than several of the B&D or Dewalts have had with paddle switches. The paddle switches can be dangerous too if laid down wrong on the switch it turns back on. Too bad Sioux doesn't make electric grinders anymore my 7" one is 32 years old now. Tried others but I always go back to Sait. Most of Norton's stuff isn't made here anymore and if cheaper there is a reason why.

By DaveBoyer (*****)

Date 11-26-2009 04:53

I have a bunch of those paddle switch grinders, old 6 amp Black & deckers & a few newer 7.5 amp DeWalts. Many were used when I got them, some show hard use. If not abused they hold up well.

I have used Metabo grinders and own some. They are well made. A friend has been burning up newer ones He has, I suspect He is leaning on them too hard.

When You NEED a 7" or 9" grinder USE ONE, dont just abuse the little grinder.

By Blaster (***)

Date 11-25-2009 20:29

Just curious.... without grinders, how would you have the students remove oxides from the TIG joint bevels they torch cut? How about smoothing the ends of welds on a beam flange after cutting off the run-off tabs? Or removing weld remnant after air arcing off strong backs, dogs, and pad eyes? Or putting a land on a beveled pipe? Etc.?

By Lawrence (*****)

Date 11-25-2009 20:48

I'm with ya there too!

I don't want to hear from my advisory board (who hire most of my grads) that my guys can't do something well.

We bevel with trackburners, manual oxy-fuel, trumph bevelers and *hand grinders*

They remove backing strips with scarfing torch and finish with *grinders* a few dozen times before I let them near the bandsaw :)

Osha says there are way more "grinder injuries" than there are "welding injuries" so we spend alot of time talking about grinders and using them... a lot of time.

Lots of entry level students have never touched a grinder.. They get lot's of touches before I'm done with em.

We do Carbon arc back gouges in a couple of our FCAW and SMAW plate tests too.. We spend much less time with CAAC but everybody gets at least an introduction so the learning curve on the job will be quick if they ever need to use it. Our employment base is mostly manufacturing so not many jobs for SMAW or CAAC in our neck of the woods..

By dringge (*)

Date 11-26-2009 01:42

My students use grinders. They just dont get to use them nonstop in the welding booth. We torch cut and bevel quite a bit of material. The bulk of the grinding is done in our grinding room where we can control some of the noise and flying debris. Proper weld preparation whether for stick, wire or tig is important. Knowing how and when to use a grinder is basic knowledge all welders should have.

By pipewelder_1999 (****)

Date 11-25-2009 14:50

I recently purchased 2 porter cables. One with a walk in and exchange policy at Lowes. Total cost about 45 each. One has been used in the lab for about 3 mos with a wire wheel on it.

The angle head always sounded a little "dry". But its still kicking and doesn't get nearly as hot as the dewalts we have.

I have a 9" B&D wildcat thats a HOSS. Bougt it used. Use it for cutting with a 1/8" disk.

By Cumminsguy71 (*****)

Date 11-26-2009 02:58

I've been using Sait for the most part. That's pretty much what my lws carries and I can make them last and when I'm hard on them they still last longer than the Norton Gemini's they were getting me out on this job the last couple months. I actually had some Nortons and Saits and think the Saits ended up lasting longer the way I was using them. Tried some dewalt wheels from lowes then compared prices at the lws, never bought wheels again from lowes.....lowest my butt. Told the guys what I paid at lowes for the 7" wheels and they about fell over.

When I was learning pipe we had to have a grinder and wire wheel in the booth. I just had two grinders, one wire, one grinding wheel. 6010 up/down hand and grind the tacks/root, wire wheel the rest. Out on this job, all sch.40 4", 2.5" and 2". No track torch or fancy beveling machine, each one was done by hand, makes a guy respect a nice track torch bevel on his test, especially when the helpers not so good with a porta band. Also helps a guy learn how to deal with the real world situations he/she is gonna run into cause it's not in the controlled environment. Keep telling guys that what they are getting at school is not real world, that's test conditions there, throw some junk up there that some burn out has cut and beveled for ya then weld it up, been down that road many times. Hard to believe in my short career in the welding world but oh so true. Or some fitter wanting ya to close up a 1/4 inch + gap cause that's the best he can do.......

By Tommyjoking (****)

Date 11-26-2009 06:20

I agree the sait wheels are the best value. They may not take off as much quite as quick but they seem to really last and do not break as easily with abusive behavior. Nortons used to be pretty good back in the day but the sait wheels were still better even then.

Cumminsguy71 I hear you. Welding is a bit different when its all off a soapstone, a torch, and a grinder....add a bit of fast as you can pressure and I think that's where that phrase came from "ain't no step for a stepper" ya rekon? BTW if a fitter is leaving me a 1/4 gap on sch 40 4 and 2 He won't be fitting in front of me long......romf and I will do his job to boot and take home some of his pay!

By ssbn727 (*****)

Date 11-26-2009 08:05 Edited 11-26-2009 08:21

If you ever work in a shipyard or in a power plant, you'll see a considerable amount of that especially in the initial stages of construction with less frequency once the riff-raff has been kicked off the site for incompetency!!! ;)

I have always wanted to say this yet I thought it would come across as being a bit arrogant on my part, but what the heck - here goes:

"I have always preferred using PFERD disks as opposed to any other brand." Seriously, these are very good disk that last a longer time than SAIT or Norton when I've used them.

They are made in Germany and have recently expanded into Canada as well... Here's the link to PFERD:

http://www.pferdusa.com/

I have used the Walter brand as well in the past, but I heard that their quality has suffered some since the eighties...

Here's Walter's catalog: http://www.jwalterinc.com/walter_us/servlet/DownloadCata

Those little Hitachi's are just as rugged as the Metabo's, yet a bit cheaper... Here's the link:

http://www.hitachipowertools.com/store_list.php?iDepartmentID=31&arrPath=1,8,31,

I learned how to grind on one of the monster 10 & 12" pneumatic grinders in the USN, forgot the name brand, and it sure made your arms get stronger than any weight lifting could, and that's why I thought I initially had 22" biceps even in as poor health that I'm presently in - which even astonished myself because I couldn't believe it when I measured them, so I asked this lady friend I know to double check and she measured 23 inches in girth for my right hand and 24 - 1/2 for my left arm!!! I wonder what they were when I was younger and working as a Journeyman Mechanic because, I wasn't the type of individual who was concerned of the size of their biceps back then, yet when I put on a shirt my little brother had given me back from back in the day when I gave it to him, it was way too small around my biceps for me to get my arms through and that's what caught my curiosity - Go figure Huh???

Those old 9" electric Milwaukee's were some tough SOB's back in the day as well compared to all of this plastic geared crap that's made these days, but we gotta use what's available so we treat them with greater loving care!!! ;) I too have tried those IR (Ingersoll Rand) pneumatics and they are tough as they come!!! ;) Good choice fbrieden! Btw, Happy Thanksgiving to everybody!!! :) :) :)

Respectfully,
Henry

By Cumminsguy71 (*****)

Date 11-26-2009 12:49 Edited 11-26-2009 12:52

It was our last weld on that particular pipe, he said, "you can weld this right". At that point it's pretty much gotta do it....somehow! Well, I'm working with the same company again on another job and well, he is not. So it all worked out in the long run.

I've read up on the Pferd brand Henry but have yet to try them. There's an lws about 40 minutes from me that is a distributor for Pferd. I contacted Pferd about their encapsulated wire wheels and I was contacted by this lws who said they can get Pferd stuff. How is the price on the Pferd grinding wheels compared to Sait? Have been thinking about trying them, just don't get over to that lws very often.

By ssbn727 (*****)

Date 11-26-2009 13:47

Sorry Shawn! I really wouldn't know these days since I'm not responsible for purchasing @ the school I teach only part time currently, so I really couldn't give you an exact comparison on price but I would have to say that they are usually competitive to SAIT and Norton... What I would do, and I'm not telling you that you must do the same, is to ask if the PFERD folks to offer you samples, or buy one as a last resort to just try them out and compare the disc with what you're currently using to see if there is justification for switching brands.

At the very least, give the ,LWS and also PFERD's 800 number a call and see what they can offer you over the phone, and this way you can decide whether or not it's worth taking a ride over there to check it out. Also you might just get the PFERD people to send you a sample of their product to check out if you convince them it's worth their while to make you one of their biggest individual advertisers - CAPECHE??? Oh yeah, I almost forgot - PFERD means "Horse" in German FYI. I'm not trying to sell you on these although I do know that their quality is first rate

BTW, they also make these:

http://www.pferdusa.com/products/209/20903/209030501P.html

http://www.pferdusa.com/info/PDF/UWER_15_100_CutSheet_02.pdf

You can also check out these video's from PFERD via youtube:

http://www.pferdusa.com/info/video.html

See if you can get free samples of these new products that are just being released for sale:

http://www.pferdusa.com/info/press/index.asp

Just embellish a little on why you think it's important to give you some free samples to try out for them... By saying to PFERD that if they do what the company claims they'll do, they will have someone out in the field plugging them for their superior product, and it should show with an increase in use and sales in your general area - CAPECHE???

Who knows, you might even get some sort of reward from them for pushing their product!!! ;)

Respectfully,
Henry

By eekpod

Date 11-28-2009 02:05

We had an older gentlemen from Portugal, he retired 2 yrs ago, and he would tell me about when he was back in Portugal they didnt have grinders, They only had hammers and chisels. If you made a bad weld, you had to chisel it out.
You would learn VERY quickly 1) to put in a good quality weld, and 2) to put it in a location that could be easily removed if it was bad.
My point being, that if they expect to be given tools, they will beat them up. Make them learn how to do it right from the beginning, and they'll treat the process and the tools better in the long run
Good Luck

Chris

By pipe hand (*)

Date 11-29-2009 14:39

if you don't like the fit don't weld it once you start the root it is yours one bad fit might git your money on a good job never be afraid to turn a fit down it is better to be working than be at the house. if your fitter is slack he will stay that way as long as you let that happen better to make him mad than get run off.
sait is what i use for the most part.

By makeithot (***)

Date 11-28-2009 22:57

run makitas myself both 4 1/2 and 5 inch. they hold up well