Shop Machines

By Iron Head 49 (***)

Date 12-02-2009 00:22

Dynasty 350!

By weldwade (***)

Date 12-02-2009 00:32

I bought two Invertec V450-PRO's for the shop couple years back and they are excellent machines. We are using the LF-72 feeders on them and Weldcraft air cooled torches with the foot pedal. Every process is excellent and I could not be happier with them. I would look at the V350-PRO for Ag training, Perfect size and power in a really great multiprocess machine. I am sold on the inverters for the shop environment. The Multi-Weld 350 would be another that I would look at. Good luck and congrats on the new job!

By aevald

Date 12-02-2009 00:44

Hello Rob, I do have to agree with Iron Head 49 on his choice of machines if you are looking for an outstanding inverter/do-all TIG machine, the Dynasty 350 would be very hard to beat. However, it isn't red and it does have a hefty price tag. The Lincoln Invertec series have some issues that would not put them in my sights for the machine of choice. The Squarewave series of Lincoln machines are probably pretty decent units but I believe Miller still has Lincoln beat on it's educational incentives programs concerning pricing and even their basic Tig/SMAW machines(Syncrowaves) are equal to the Lincolns Squarewaves. If I were trying to compare anything to the Dynasty I would look to the Thermal Arc AC/DC inverters as they have many of the features of the Dynasty and are really decent performers. I believe their prices might be on par or slightly less than the Millers.
If you have some dealers in your area who are willing to work with you, have them bring some of their units to your shop for you to "test" and also let them know that they need to give you their best price as it is a proven fact that when folks learn on a piece of equipment and become comfortable and confident with it's capabilities they will tend to gravitate towards those brands when it comes time for them to be the ones making the decisions on their equipment needs. It's nice to have the opportunity to select a piece of equipment for a program, enjoy the journey and good luck on your new job duties and program. Best regards, Allan

By Lawrence (*****)

Date 12-02-2009 00:57 Edited 12-02-2009 01:01

Rob

Lots to think about..

I think that unless your getting the best deal on the planet, that a training facility should have both red and blue, because both are going to be used by your grads a work..

Funny thing about Lincoln.. They make the best motor generator stick welders or at least most folks think so.. But almost all of their shop stick machines have a silly soft/crip toggle rather than a graduated dig control that provides much more flexability when training for pipe roots (which it sounds like you are doing)

Miller Synchrowave and Dynasty are nasty good stick machines.. Frankly Synchrowave in my opinion is the best shop/stick machine out there for both open roots and low-hy.. Never gonna break, never gonna loose a circuit board...

With CC Stick/Tig why not think about purchasing a couple of red and a couple of blue... They can interchange consumables so thats not a problem at all.

If your looking for something that is CC/CV GMAW/FCAW/SMAW/GTAW (DC) and not worried about AC and aluminum. go with Lincoln, they have several choices that are *FAR* more flexable than Miller can offer.

Get them to throw in a Vantage and you will be able to introduce them to the best in shop and field... Right Cactus?

By low_hydrogen (**)

Date 12-02-2009 02:22

I own a miller sync 200, and I would prefer to have the dynasty 350. The sync is great on the stick but lacks a little in the tig imo.

By welder_Bob (**)

Date 12-02-2009 04:45

Since it is an Agriculture class I would choose machine you are most likely to see in the barn/shop on the Farm or Ranch. Like a miller Syncrowave 200 or a Lincoln Precision TIG 225 both machines are around $2500 give or take. Also since you are dealing with high school kid I would pick a machine that can be serviced and repaired locally and quickly. The more bells and whistles the machine has the more time you will have to spend explaining to them about using the machine and the less time you will have for explaining about welding.

Just my 2 cents.

By Superflux (****)

Date 12-02-2009 05:34 Edited 12-02-2009 05:37

deleted

By Tommyjoking (****)

Date 12-02-2009 06:37 Edited 12-02-2009 08:55

If you want to go high tech and teach on the latest then look to the Dynasty series as said above, Inverters are the future. I do not believe any other machine will touch it for its capabilities in tig.

Miller Synchrowave 350LX is a great machine.....It has enough gumption to run big fat rods (VERY WELL) all day long or tig in down to ranges of .010 thick steels. It will give you the option to teach some Aluminum tig as well and a pulser built in. Best of all its a very very reliable unit. About $5.5-6k with leads, foot pedal and a water cooling unit Warning: the miller coolers are VERY dust sensitive the fans will short and flame up...I am very unimpressed with them. For a bit less the 250LX is a good option as well. Buy a little 200 amp Mig welder with it and you can teach welding all the way round. Lots of farm type and (no offense) private/amatuer welders seem to like the wire feeders because its easier to learn and its clean, quick and semi cost effective....I think it would be very important to teach Mig welding in your class as well.

If you want a MIG option in the same power supply you will probably have to forgo the AC capability.....The old Miller Shopmasters were pretty good but Miller does not offer anything like that anymore to my knowledge I.E. a CC/CV AC/DC machine with a high freq, remote rehostat, and contactor options like that ....shame. I Agree with Lawerence if you need a power supply that does it all save AC look to Lincoln and I will ADD Thermodyne (they have some nice features on thier CC/CV machines).

Good luck and make sure you get your educator discounts when yall buy them!!
Tommy

By RioCampo (***)

Date 12-02-2009 23:03

Thanks to all for the responses.
Great information. Our local supplier is Airgas, But we have a great rep. I knew him well before I took position.
I have a couple of Mig welders already, although they were not maintained well. Fortunately they are only a couple of years old, both are spoolgun ready for aluminum, so I lucked out there.
The rest consist of the old Idealarc 250, that are at least 30 years old. Those were certainly some well built machines, who would have thought they would last this long?
I have as many as 15 students in one class, so I am trying to maximize my welder collection. Unfortunately, I only have about 5K to spend, should have mentioned that earlier.

Rob

By Iron Head 49 (***)

Date 12-02-2009 23:30

5-Grand!

Better start buying air-cooled scratch start torches for those Idealarcs!

By aevald

Date 12-02-2009 23:51

Hey Rob, twist your rep's arm and see if he can get you some of their "show" machines. Sometimes when they are done with shows such as AWS/Fabtech they might be willing to sell the "used" machines at a lesser cost. Won't know unless you ask. Also, if your state has a state surplus you might want to inquire with them to see if they might have any machines that have been surplused by other schools/state institutions in the system, in some cases you might be able to pick up some very reasonably priced equipment in this manner. Check with local industry and see if they would be willing to phase-out some of their older machines and donate them to your program, there is a good possibility that they can be allowed an attractive tax-break by doing so which will provide the incentive to consider this as an option. A few items for you to consider. Best regards, Allan

By KSellon (****)

Date 12-03-2009 20:39

Miller has a better line. But if you go with Lincoln look into the Squarewave

By RioCampo (***)

Date 12-03-2009 22:46

I have always used Miller in the shop myself. It will be as more about service as it will be Lincoln vs. Miller.

By ssbn727 (*****)

Date 12-03-2009 23:15

Well if that's the case, and if you're also limited in local welding suppliers as well it really would be an important factor to consider as to the type of service that is available in your area... In other words, if you get great deal from let's say Thermal arc on some multi-process power sources, yet the supplier which you do most of your business with is not an authorized warranty service center for Thermal Arc, then common sense tells you NOT to by that brand. ;) That is unless there's another one around that does have factory warranty repair service for you to take advantage of...

However, I have heard some stories about their equipment and how they honor their warranties, and most of them were not good, but that's only what I heard and maybe some others heard different... At the very least, most independent welding supplier offer at the minimum, three different brands and they're either Miller or Lincoln with either Thermal or ESAB as a third brand. Some of the larger welding distributors carry even more brands, but since most of the equipment being used in the rural areas consist of either the proverbial "Red, or Blue" machines, then it would come down to serviceability from your supplier as well simplicity in design for you to work into your curriculum.

Respectfully,
Henry

By uphill

Date 12-04-2009 03:29 Edited 12-04-2009 03:35

The government has distribution depots arround the country where they sell equipment that is offered only to schools and local government agencies. There was one in MPLS that sold all types of machinery and welders for peanuts. The school by here got some 10 cent on the dollar buys of fairly new equipment. They have some big iron workers from time to time also. Just have to get registered so you can go and buy.

Best of luck.

http://www.usa.gov/shopping/supplies/supplies.shtml

http://www.usa.gov/shopping/auctions/surplus.shtml

By ssbn727 (*****)

Date 12-04-2009 15:45

I agree with both you Uphill as well as Fixalinc! However, trying to convince a school administrator to go that route is like pulling teeth out of a Rhino! They frown big time on auction items which really is their loss, but if Rio Campo can convince his boss to purchase from these auctions??? Then I would certainly agree that one can get more bang for their proverbial buck going that route than let's say just purchasing new equipment that would limit via price how many units one can buy! A solid recommendation IMHO!

It's shame that more administrators don't go that route because it would definitely save them a whole bunch of money on certain power sources and other fabrication/metal working equipment as well and provide some invaluable lesson for students who also want to learn how maintain and repair used equipment as well because not all of the equipment out in the real world is brand spanking new and shiny with all sorts of bells and whistles to boot!!! ;) Hopefully you can convince your boss Rio to go that route to at least some extent! ;)

Respectfully,
Henry

By DaveBoyer (*****)

Date 12-05-2009 02:21

Good point. I have not been in the manufacturing industry for a while, but most of the equipment in the shops I worked in was well used [make that old] and there were no plans to replace it with newer gear as long as it could be economically maintained.

By FixaLinc (****)

Date 12-04-2009 04:23

A couple more surplus auctions and other auction links.

http://www.govliquidation.com/

http://www.bentleysauction.com/

http://www.publicsurplus.com/sms/browse/home?tm=m

http://www.rbauction.com/index.jsp

http://www.globalauctionguide.com/

By KSellon (****)

Date 12-05-2009 16:42

Thats how I'm lookin at it

By guajilloweld Date 12-04-2009 17:06

Since you work for the State, you can get a price break on most of your purchases. Call several vendors and see what kind of deal they can make you. Many items the state purchases are already on contract with some one. The trick is finding a person at your school that knows the system. We recently purchased a John Deere Fail mower for 2900.00 on TEXMAS contract. On the first bid without the TEXMAS contract it was 4000.00. The same goes for tires at Goodyear and Firestone. Autozone and Oreillys for auto parts. Your 5000.00 may go further than you think.

By RioCampo (***)

Date 12-05-2009 05:23

I just got a lead on a welding program that is just for instructors. You have to go to the class (5 days) but you have the opportunity to but the machines after the class is over.
Thanks for all of the great advice.

Rob