T,Y,K connections

By 803056

Date 12-07-2009 20:10

What does your WPS specify? You do have a qualified WPS to test your welders to, don't you?

Best regards - Al

By ctacker (****)

Date 12-07-2009 20:46

No Al, I was looking more for brand names. I have to send my welders to a WABO acreddited test facility that uses there own WPS, and was looking for a good wire brand to start the welders practicing with.
My boss Doesn't want to pay the extra for T,Y,K qualification anymore and since we are just splicing pipe he decided to go for the groove with backing to save a few bucks.
I have had good luck with ESAB wire for doing all position welding so I think I will stick with that.

By 803056

Date 12-07-2009 21:49 Edited 12-07-2009 21:53

You can't go wrong with ESAB Ultrashield fluxcored electrodes.

With that in mind, you might want to check with your testing facility.

What you just mentioned is one of the heart burns I have with AWS' ATFs. They want you to test your welders to their procedures which are the AWS SWPSs. It dosen't make a lot of sense to me to test welders to a WPS that isn't what they will be doing in production. I can see it now, "Yup, all my welders passed the AWS test, but they can't weld a lick on the production floor!"

Best regards - Al

By ctacker (****)

Date 12-07-2009 23:19

The testing Facility uses Esab, But they said if we wanted a change, we supply our own wire. (not sure how that would follow with "thier" WPS)

Back to my original question, would E71T1 Esab wire do good on an open root also? I've never had to do any open root with wire so thats kinda new to me, Stick welding no problem but wire seems like it may be harder for the open root.

Thanks for the replies Larry and Al !

By ssbn727 (*****)

Date 12-08-2009 02:14

Open root? Didn't you just post this?

"My boss Doesn't want to pay the extra for T,Y,K qualification anymore and since we are just splicing pipe he decided to go for the groove with backing to save a few bucks."

So why the open root??? Are the production joints going to be open roots??? There is a wire that acts much like a 6010 fast freeze electrode for FCAW and is used for open roots... Instead of using a drag or backhand or pulling technique of depositing the wire, this wire you would use a forehand or push technique to fill the open root and ensure adequate penetration, but for the life of me I don't remember the brand or AWS electrode designation for FCAW... It might have been a Hobart wire, but I'm not sure. Sorry I can't be more helpful with that. Other thna that, ESAB has always had superior FCAW filler ever since they took over Alloy Rods and the Dual shield brand. Their self shielded wire is pretty good considering self-shielded FCAW. ;)

Respectfully,
Henry

By ctacker (****)

Date 12-08-2009 04:28

yes I posted that, I wanted the info for my own knowledge. I have never tried to run open root with wire, and I'm not so sure I would even be able to, unless they did make a wire that runs like 6010 as you mentioned.

Production joints are going to be prequalified with backing.

Our first thought was if we were going to spend money for qualifications, we should do open root T,Y,K which would give a wider range of quals. but after seeing the price range differences and smaller chance of welders passing, He opted for what will get us by for this particular job.

I'd be interested to know the wire MFG of the wire you mentioned if it ever comes back to you.

Hope your health is still holding up good, and thanks!
Carl

By jwright650 (*****)

Date 12-08-2009 12:28

>So why the open root???

Just curious here, how do you form a backing bar to fit the inside contours of a TYK joint?

By ctacker (****)

Date 12-08-2009 04:37

The testing facility says they use chill rings, whats your stance on this Al? Chill rings are only about an 1/8" thick and not continuous. and when I asked them, their reply was " its only got about an 1/8" gap, so its almost continuous" Does "almost" count as continuous now days? LOL
I say not, but they are the accredited testing facility so I have to go with what they do on this one for now.

By Lawrence (*****)

Date 12-07-2009 22:02

We have been doing trials (all positon, unlimited thickness w/backing) with CO2 and 1/16" FCAW the last few weeks.

ESAB 710X

Hobart Hornet

Lincoln 71M

Of those three the ESAB is by far the best. Lincoln wire a distant second. (Let's say this is for operator appeal and guided bends, no tensiles or impacts were done)

This does not equate perfectly with the open roots you describe but I can tell you that the ESAB 045 and 1/16 electrodes are very easy to work with both with Straight C02 and 75/25.

By 803056

Date 12-08-2009 14:10

I have to agree with Lawrence. I use UltraShield electrodes when I teach welders that have not worked with FCAW. It is an easy transition to go from SMAW to FCAW if you use good electrode. It may not be as inexpensive as some other brands. Sometimes the initial cost is not the major concern, like when ease of use and quality are the main issues.

As for giving the welders an open root test when the production welds will be made with backing, I see no pluses for anyone in that scenario. Welding an open root joint is a magnitude harder than welding a joint with backing. Granted, if your welders are experienced at welding open root joints and that it is the way production welds are made, fine, but you gain very little other than to frustrate your welders and your budget by testing them on open root in your case.
Split rings are available from a number of sources. The code does mention they may be used, but it notes that melt-thru is not acceptable. I doubt the testing facility would object if you can supplied the pipe and roll the backing rings from bar for the test.

Best regards – Al