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Up Topic American Welding Society Services / Certifications / Cross qualification ??
- - By southernpride (*) Date 01-12-2010 02:08
Can a company hold a welder accountable if they fail radiographic examination if the welder was not qualified prior to the job with a radiographic test?  The pipe was welded to ASME IX pressure vessel code and no welding procedure was given prior to the start of the job.  Does a bend test qualification qualify a welder to radiographic procedures and test??  Thank you for your responses.
Parent - - By jarcher (**) Date 01-12-2010 02:26
I don't quite know what you mean by "hold accountable," but yes, unless the welder is in a union, they can do just about anything they want in regard to a failed x-ray, up to and including termination. ASME codes don't have anything to say about employer-employee relations. In most states the relationship is at will - a welder can quit anytime he wants, the employer can fire him anytime for any reason, or give no reason. Yes a bend test qualifies a welder to weld the WPS qualified, the method of non-destructive examination is a non related decision.
Parent - - By southernpride (*) Date 01-12-2010 02:47
Thank you for the quick reply jarcher.  I got in with a company on my bend test asme ix paper, which I had before I started any work with that company.  After working there a few weeks, they decide to x ray the work and I failed a few of the joints.  Is it fair they back charge me the repairs even though I wasn't qualified to an x ray weld procedure?  After all, they had my bend test paper and they provided no weld procedure the time I was there.
Parent - By Superflux (****) Date 01-12-2010 04:53
southernpride,
"Is it fair they back charge me the repairs "
Are you a contractor/rig welder, or company employee? As an employee, I would think state labor laws would make it impossible to charge you for NDE or rewelding.
Now as a contractor, that's another story. Most operations that use rig welders I've worked around just make them reweld if it is one or 2 bad shots, and everyone it seems had the 3 bad x-rays and your out. Some make you perform the repair(s) on your own time. And if a repair RT fails, they just fire you. These are just my experiences. It may be different on your job or area.
Hope it all works out for you.
Parent - - By Lawrence (*****) Date 01-12-2010 05:31
If the engineer accepted your "paper"  than your qualified.. simple as that.

If you as a subcontracting welder went forward with welding operations without a welding procedure of any sort, I don't see that you have any room to point fingers.

Don't really mean to be snippy... Just tough love?
Parent - - By southernpride (*) Date 01-12-2010 13:25
I see everyone's points.  I am hoping I can cut a deal with these folks.  Live and learn I guess.
Parent - By swsweld (****) Date 01-13-2010 02:27
To reiterate the previous replies: If you are an employee, they can not back charge you. They can cut pay, fire, mandate more training, require retesting, pull your certification but you can not be financially responsible. It is the contractors financial responsibility.

If you are the sub contractor then you are responsible for the work that you performed. Normally you will be allowed to repair your own work. If they are paying for the x-rays then they could charge you for the additional x-rays. Those matters should be adressed in a preconstruction meeting (before work is performed) if you are a sub. So should the quality requirements that you must comply with. ASME IX welder qualification test can be examined by x-ray or by guided bend test. Either way you are qualified to make x-ray welds in the field if your qualification covers the process, pipe size, etc.

If you are an independent contractor it's always a good idea to know what, if any NDE will be performed and what the product (pressure and temperature) is. It helps to know beforehand all of the factors that you are dealing with.
As you said, live and learn.
Good luck to you.
Parent - By dbigkahunna (****) Date 01-13-2010 12:06
Did you qualify with the company or did they accept papers from another company as your qualifications?
When you started with the company and did a bend test, it was your responsibility to ask for the welding procedure if one was not provided. The bend test qualified you if you tested to a written procedure. There is no such thing as a xray procedure. All procedures must be qualified by destructive test.
In the industry the welder is responsible for their welds. Typically you repair your on welds on your own time unless you are a company hand. Then you repair the weld on company time at their expense. As for paying for the xray I have never heard of the welder being responsible for paying for the NDT.
However, if you are a contract worker and the decide to back charge you, then you have three choices; keep you head down and take it, drag up, or drag up and sue the bastages.
Up Topic American Welding Society Services / Certifications / Cross qualification ??

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