scumbags trying to take advantage of a bad economy. how bout a cwi position
for 18.00 hr. it's a very sad situation that someone will probably be desperate
enough to work for that
I see the same thing.
After much effort to help get wages up in our region, some of the manufacturing players who are still in business are lowballing the talent. The have a larger pool to pick from and are offering less in both wages and benefits...
It's so stupid... Talent may be forced for a season to take this kind of work as some folks have a moral drive to take a low paying job rather than collect unemployment.. But these folks will rightly have no loyalty and move on as soon as they can...
The same manufacturers constantly have problems with turnover... But they just don't get it. Or do get it and don't care.
Hello jsdwelder, have certainly seen these sorts of practices in the past in our area. Up to this point it's not so much that wages have been reduced, but certainly, the job requirement bar has been raised and the perks have been reduced(so I guess you could say that wages have been dropped). There is a larger pool of available trained and seasoned folks out there looking for work and needing to take it due to their own financial needs, so options for the newcomers have been greatly reduced. I believe the only saving grace in all of this is that it tends to be cyclic and "eventually" it will turn around and we will see a brighter future, hopefully that time period won't be too long. Best regards, Allan
For all those taking advantage of this bad situation, we can only hope that Karma will bite them in the A$$, and or perhaps get to reside at that special labyrinth in Hades reserved for baby rapers and suicide bombers.
On the Devils advocate flip side, I know of small businesses (1-5 employees) that are feeling the crunch and are being "bargain shopped to death" by large corporations and once solid resources that have put the screws to them and have forced them to lay-off, cut wages and reduce their bids to a zero profit. Like Oilfield developement companies that hire $25/hr riglets when they used to call my friend with a legitimate business license and insurance.
There are those that have exhausted their unemployment accounts (or failed to qualify by B.S. such as not making enough in a benefit quarter) and are forced to take anything they can to feed their families and fend off the repo man! Makes it tough to go to a job if your truck gets taken by the bank (that WE BAILED OUT!!!)
These are tough times for the Working Man/Woman.
It WILL get better....eventually.
my 2 cents worth of gratuitious ranting.
It's so bad, I got a hooker to take an out of state check......
I think a lot of shops that pay low and consequently contstantly turn over people do so because they have never had a truely skilled, knowledgeable, professional tradesman.
They simply have never paid enough to get one. So the best they had is the best they know. And since he wasn't that good, they don't offer more for what they expect will be more of the same.... so they never get a guy who is better.
Once you see a guy who is really good, your frame of reference changes as to desires, expectations, and efficiency.
I have a saying that is generally true.... "Small business is usually small for a reason." And that reason is usually because they can't see past the next set of payroll checks. Generally speaking, highly successful organizations succede because they pay whatever is necessary to hire those among the very best in their field.
There are still some good jobs out there but they are quite dificult to locate lately.
This has been the trend in most trades for the last 20 years, and it has hit the less skilled workers even harder. From what You guys are saying, it is only starting to affect skilled trades welders recently.
MY OPINION ONLY: The bean counters and upper level management have less respect for trades workers than in the past, and corporate boards of directors have an over inflated view of their own worth and those just below themselves. This is reflected in each of their pay scales.
Believe it or not i've seen some real talented welders working for 12.00 hr and some worthless slugs
getting paid union scale who's welds are horrible making 38.00 + Benefits. weld chrome, stainless, inconel , for 12.00 hr I don't think so
i remember when you got 15% more for chrome and the companys always treated the top welders like kings. And yes Dave these Bean counters do think there better than us
they don't respect our skills one bit. My sister once told me that if a company promoted the smartest most talented people to management they would be left with the dumb
and incompetent to do the work. I especially love screwing with the college grads who think they know everything about welding and fabrication because they have a degree
even though they've never had a stinger in their hand. I had one project manager calling every pipe supply house in Calif for a gallon of level fluid so all the fitters could refill their
torpedos lmao lmao and that guy was pulling in 100,000 plus. you don't always get what you pay for lol Joe
Thats a good one I'm going to use that myself the next chance I get. Level fluid LMAO.
That's cruel.....funny as hell, but cruel. lol Can't say I aint done sumthin like that before tho. Always fun to mess with people who don't know about what they work around, makes the day go by quicker!
I am a College grad and I DO know everything about welding :)
I'm kidding I only know 90%
all seriousness. Welding is very dependent on both location and the details. I had welding jobs for 9/hr doing all position GTAW on heat resistant alloys. I took it because it was fair for the area and it put food on my table. I switched over and became an engineer, partly cause I love to understand why welding works, and partly cause I was tired of playing that game and wanted a steady salary.
In rural PA 9-12/hr was about right starting for factory welders regardless of experience, 19/hr was on the high side for starting with plant work (not talking field or rig welding).
In LA it starts higher cause 12/hr will barely by the gas to get you to work. But In my experience for years now factory welding work is always seen as a low value added type of service. Aka you'll get paid the same as some one turning a screw driver or running a tape gun, that's how most managers look at it.
Truth is a lot of welding jobs require barely any skill level or knowledge at all. No reason for them to pay too much.
Seems most school trained guys around here start at about $15 an hour and it isn't uncommon for them to get moved to about $20 pretty quick. But these are generally jobs that require unsupervised work that involves both skill and thinking. However nobody seems to be hiring here right now.
jsdwelder
DaveBoyer said something I really liked his term mig-monkey in another post.
Which forced me to throw my 2ยข's in on this tread.
There is big difference in the skill involved in the different types of welding going on.
Today if you work for a company in production of a product that is repetitious you can get replaced by a Computer Controlled Robot to do the joining, they don't require any vacation don't have a hang over and didn't stay up late to watch that game, just an operator to turn them on.
Even if the welding is not repetitious but is mainly fillet welds in the flat position it doesn't take a 6GR qualified welder to apply them.
I have made many different wages in my welding career. The SST GTAW was more compensatory than the welder applying weld to round rod and angle in a joist shop.
So in my opinion you make what you want and are able to handle period.
I guarantee everyone of you shop for the biggest bang for the buck so why shouldn't the bean counters as the employer has been called.
I just don't think we should bash the hand that feeds us. If you are unhappy with your wages take it up with the bean counters or go somewhere else.
And I see mig-monkeys happy for 12 bucks an hour, remember they generally get an insurance package option, OSHA says all their Personal Protective Equipment, (hood gloves safety glass's...) free of charge, and someone else to scrounge around for work to keep them busy.
I am off my box now and off to say good morning to the Bean Counters.
Good Morning or Good Night to all of you also.
Good Luck
Marshall
I can agree with a production type job being lower on the pay scale because of the laws of supply and demand, but when I see these adds for welders who must have 5 years of experience and be certified and are offered these insulting wages I can't help but feel that our industry is reverting back to what it used to be. When I first got into this trade there was a perception that if you were not smart enough to go to college, you could always burn some rod. Gosh, how much skill would that take? I do know this.. in my area I can apply at McDonalds and get a uniform, meal discount and stay warm and dry for $9 -10 hr. I love to weld as do most welders, but its hard to convince the younger generation to get into welding when they can make almost the same amount at Mickey D's and come home as clean as they went to work. Not alot of skill needed there. No offense to them, but it is what it is. As I said above, I can see a MIG production job being the low buck, but not a guy with certs and 5 years experience. Thats what gets me.
Many of those asking for "certifications" don't have the slightest idea what they are, involve, or what purpose they serve.
Most layman, and many managers, etc. seem to think a "certified welder" should be expected to be able to read prints, layout, cut, build, weld to code standards in all positions, etc, etc.
They have no idea how little "certifications" actually indicate.
Certifications: Controlled conditions in a controlled environment; no indication of a persons abilities when the conditions and environment are uncontrolled.
They are taking advantage of the work slow down, but they'll pay for it when things pick up and the welder that took the job to feed his family drags one day and leaves them in a bind. On the other hand, I know of shops that pay good wages for welders and can't find any that are dependable an can pass a piss test. The company my dad works for was offering 20-24 an hr, insurance, per diem, AND furnished all tools, but couldn't find anybody that would work. Sure, they'd work 40 hrs at the shop but when they wanted them to go on the road and pull 10-12 hr shifts for a few weeks, they started compalinin that they were being slave drivers and would quit. I know that the pay doesn't sound like the best, but alot of their work is within a few hrs of home and you don't have to be certified when you hire on, plus it's real good pay for welders around here in this part of AR.
Forum
